Arizona - Studs and Duds

Thirteen Below

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Have you looked at Doubs….honestly no one is dropping the ball really this year so far.
Whoa!!! No, I had not looked at his stats, but I just did now, and you nailed it - 36 catches, 0 drops. What a season he's having so far.

Over 6 games, he has 36 catches, 302 yards, 4 TDs. Extrapolate that out over 17 games, you'd be looking at 102 catches, 855 yards, and 12 TDs. We haven't had those kinds of numbers from a WR since the Davante Days.

It's going to be hard to not extend him, much less trade him. I haven't noticed very much ''trade Doubs'' talk lately, come to think of it.
 
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Jacoby did really well countering us, but he was uncomfortable most of the day. 12 QB hits, 6 Sacks 9 TFL shows the intensity going on around him. Keep in mind Arizona was #5 Pass protection on ESPN metrics (NexGen) last through 6 weeks (above PBWR) This isn’t a slouch OL we just played. IMO if you peek across the trenches, their DL/OL are both pretty good. This is partly why AZ hangs with good teams so far.

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DL
I meant to mention put DL in general as a Stud. Brooks, Wooden , Enagbare, Gary, Parsons etc.. did a great job. When we consider we played without Van Ness and Wyatt we really held our own considering not fully healthy.
 
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tynimiller

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Observations from the game...

Stud Obs First:
  • Offensive Line – time and time again I was amazed at not just the successful protection but the amount of time in which it seemed before Jordan even had to drift up or out. You’re going to give up pressures, fact when you have 250-320lb professionals on the other side as well….but man it was overall really nice yesterday. Morgan is the RG of the future as far as I’m concerned…LT needs to somehow be Walker resigned, Belton or a guy not even on the team yet. Morgan can play LT, but that man is better at RG and I fully embrace it.
  • Jordan Love – Dude was really clean…I counted on my chicken scratch sheet four balls he’d like back that I bet he thinks he could have fit in or tossed better….the two biggest being the one that sailed high on Kraft and the long one to Doubs who absolutely had his man beat for TD on the fourth down attempt…still Love time and time again has proven he can cook – we gotta start letting him. I’ve said it before MLF uses the run to set up the pass…but this team has the weapons to do it the other way and still make things happen on the ground. LET LOVE COOK.
  • Parsons was awesome, absolutely – as advertised….but Enagbare had some BIG boy plays with his elevated snaps since LVN was out. Sorrell is a solid rookie who is for the most part doing excellent assignment football but isn’t that weapon yet like the others. There were some edge set reps out of Gary this game that folks could show young guys as a tutorial….this group was making Arizona do quick passes and dumps all day – secondary just couldn’t stop that.
  • Quay...dude has issues when asked to read coverages or read and diagnose...but dear lord dude wrecks the QB seemingly unmatched when his sole task is get to him. Incredible game out of him.
Duds Obs:

  • LET LOVE COOK – I fully understand it isn’t MLF’s system or way, but he has gotta lean into his QB more IMO, especially since he has the weapons to do it. Let the pass set up the run, and not the other way. We are built to make that happen. Now I will say the game dictated we throw more being from behind, so 29 passes vs 23 runs is the 55% pass minimum I want each week…but man we need to keep that going and then some IMO.
  • Outside Cornerback play….I’m done. Hobbs is a slot corner, Valentine MUST ****** START OUTSIDE. Hobbs being played out of position is making Gute look like an idiot for signing him…Hobbs just isn’t that guy for the outside and barely ever has been.
 

milani

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I said the same to my wife. Worst blocking TD we have and we run to his side. Not the best play design in that situation
Part of that was the pursuit from Arizona. They read the play. MLF tried to make them think we would pound it straight ahead. There are a number of defenses in the league which are almost impossible to go to the outside. But they give you other openings where they are vulnerable. You have to play to that until they adjust.
From the Cardinal perspective the QB sneak from Brissett was low percentage. He had more than a yard. It was not a Tush. And you have a good RB behind you that had shown success. Even punting and forcing the Packers to go 90 would have been better.
 

milani

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Observations from the game...

Stud Obs First:
  • Offensive Line – time and time again I was amazed at not just the successful protection but the amount of time in which it seemed before Jordan even had to drift up or out. You’re going to give up pressures, fact when you have 250-320lb professionals on the other side as well….but man it was overall really nice yesterday. Morgan is the RG of the future as far as I’m concerned…LT needs to somehow be Walker resigned, Belton or a guy not even on the team yet. Morgan can play LT, but that man is better at RG and I fully embrace it.
  • Jordan Love – Dude was really clean…I counted on my chicken scratch sheet four balls he’d like back that I bet he thinks he could have fit in or tossed better….the two biggest being the one that sailed high on Kraft and the long one to Doubs who absolutely had his man beat for TD on the fourth down attempt…still Love time and time again has proven he can cook – we gotta start letting him. I’ve said it before MLF uses the run to set up the pass…but this team has the weapons to do it the other way and still make things happen on the ground. LET LOVE COOK.
  • Parsons was awesome, absolutely – as advertised….but Enagbare had some BIG boy plays with his elevated snaps since LVN was out. Sorrell is a solid rookie who is for the most part doing excellent assignment football but isn’t that weapon yet like the others. There were some edge set reps out of Gary this game that folks could show young guys as a tutorial….this group was making Arizona do quick passes and dumps all day – secondary just couldn’t stop that.
  • Quay...dude has issues when asked to read coverages or read and diagnose...but dear lord dude wrecks the QB seemingly unmatched when his sole task is get to him. Incredible game out of him.
Duds Obs:

  • LET LOVE COOK – I fully understand it isn’t MLF’s system or way, but he has gotta lean into his QB more IMO, especially since he has the weapons to do it. Let the pass set up the run, and not the other way. We are built to make that happen. Now I will say the game dictated we throw more being from behind, so 29 passes vs 23 runs is the 55% pass minimum I want each week…but man we need to keep that going and then some IMO.
  • Outside Cornerback play….I’m done. Hobbs is a slot corner, Valentine MUST ****** START OUTSIDE. Hobbs being played out of position is making Gute look like an idiot for signing him…Hobbs just isn’t that guy for the outside and barely ever has been.
Right about Hobbs. And if it were not for the pass rush it would be worse. If we were facing QBs like Allen, Mayfield, or Mahommes it would even be uglier. Facing Rodgers could be the same except he does not have the mobility any more. Some have argued here that we need to get another corner. They have just won the argument.
 

tynimiller

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Right about Hobbs. And if it were not for the pass rush it would be worse. If we were facing QBs like Allen, Mayfield, or Mahommes it would even be uglier. Facing Rodgers could be the same except he does not have the mobility any more. Some have argued here that we need to get another corner. They have just won the argument.

Yeah this pass rush is the ONLY saving grace right now for us to not be in total destruction defensively in the air for sure. I don't believe Asante Samuel Jr is a stud, but right now he is worth the risk to see if he is what he was prior to injury because that was better than anything we are getting consistently.
 

Heyjoe4

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Studs

Parsons

Kraft


Duds

Hobbs and the rest of the secondary
Yeah Z what is the deal with Hobbs? He hasn't shown anything to support his comp. More to your point, the entire secondary - meaning just the CBs - is the weakest position group on the team.

Gluten might have to go fishing in FA again, but Hobbs is turning out to be an expensive mistake. Time will tell.
 

Heyjoe4

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Studs: Parsons, Havrisik, & Quay

Duds: Hobbs, the Packers flight, and did I mention HOBBS??

Honorable Mention: Jacobs, & Doubs
I think the game was Walker's best as a Packer. Maybe it's the Parsons affect, where he is drawing double teams and a lot of attention, but Walker was really getting after Brissett yesterday, blitzing from the middle, and very effectively.

But where has Coper gone this year? He did make an excellent play in coverage yesterday, but haven't heard his name mentioned a lot. I thought he would thrive with Parsons in the lineup.
 

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Super stud. Micah
Big stud Kraft
Studs. Doubs, Jacobs, Engabare made a few, Rashon made a huge one, field goals, Wooden, Q, we played hard

Duds Hobbs

Comments I just don't like that our receivers aren't open more often. I'm thinking it's the routes called and maybe the receiver coach. And it's just a shame we have to use Cooper as a pass defender. Maybe we should put a safety in sometimes in his place.
I've noticed that as well. And yesterday, by contrast, AZ was running some excellent WR routes and Brissett was spot on. Is it MLF's play calling? His play calling does seem to be very predictable. I might be wrong on this, but that's what it looks like.

On the plus side, Love is doing much better changing the call at the LOS, based one what the opponent's D is showing. That's a significant improvement for him.
 

tynimiller

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I mean let me get on my soap box for a brief moment and allow recency bias steer my ship far too much and likely unrealistically....

Rich Bisaccia deserves every bit of criticism sent his way but DEAR LORD folks IMO if I'm Gute I'm sittingMLF down and being very blunt to him about two things:

- Rich needs to be the assistant head coach or the ST coordinator - he must have one taken given the performance of his unit is NOT close to standards - MINIMUM. (there get that out of the way.

- Gute - "Look Hobbs was a mistake by me and everyone who thought he could be the outside answer. He is a violent, willing tackler out of the middle and slot, we are done with him outside though unless he wasn't healthy enough to play fully in the desert - which if that is the case even more so what I'm about to say needs said. Hafley's secondary and corners specifically just gave up a 110+ quarterback rating and nearly 300 yards passing to Jacoby Brissett on a day where the defensive front gave them 27 pressures, six sacks. How is that possible? I don't care if he needs to start telling guys to sit down and we work our way clear to Bo Melton out there - DO IT! Carrington Valentine did nothing but progress all these years, he is a gamer - get his *** out there more. Change for the sake of change is never a good thing, change in response to TERRIBLE performance is not for the sake of change, it is the pursuit of being better. Oh and while I'm in here LET LOVE COOK, that was for Tynimiller's sake - k get it done!
 

milani

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Yeah Z what is the deal with Hobbs? He hasn't shown anything to support his comp. More to your point, the entire secondary - meaning just the CBs - is the weakest position group on the team.

Gluten might have to go fishing in FA again, but Hobbs is turning out to be an expensive mistake. Time will tell.
Last week I asked if Hobbs has done anything since he came. Someone answered " Yes. Nothing. "
 

Heyjoe4

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I think it was a 3rd down play...on final drive they pitched it to Jacobs in the flat and had Musgrave blocking on the edge....and got eaten alive, Dud to they play designer and callerMLF.
I really don't like this kind of play, and really don't like execution on jet sweeps. On the play you mentioned, it looked like there were at least two unblocked guys wearing red, maybe three. Awful call. I'm a little surprised Love didn't notice - or maybe AZ just camouflaged the play.
 

Heyjoe4

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Stud: defensive line was putting the pressure on all day

Stud: Quay Walker - I’m still not a fan but he played great today

Dud: defensive backs. They are the reason we won’t win a SB this season
Agreed. Walker had his best game as a Packer IMO. I'm sure Parson's presence plays a role. But Walker was putting a lot of pressure up the middle on Brissett yesterday, playing a very aggressive, physical game.
 

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Studs
Parsons was huge. His sacks saved the day.

Kraft- When he's targeted, good things happen. Hey MLF, throw it to him even more

Doubs- Dependable and made some big grabs

D Line- pass rush was consistent and they shut the run down in the second half

Havrisik- big leg for sure

Duds
Hobbs- wow does he suck. Needs to be benched

Special Teams- need I say more?

Hafley- seems to be mismanaging Cooper and the CB's suck. I thought he was a secondary coach.

MFL- what does it take to get a coach fired in GB? Bisaccia should be long gone. Special Teams can't get any worse
I'm not going to roast Hafley too much. LVN and Wyatt are out and our secondary ain't great. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken droppings.
 

Heyjoe4

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Some of LeFleur's play calling on 3rd and short, and 4th down is really bad. This kid we have kicking? He's a temp and he now owns the Packers record for longest FG ever at 61 yards. He's got a great leg. I keep thinking about how we spent over two years looking for someone who might be able to kick a football, now we have a good kicker and even the guys who show up short term are awesome.

Dud - Hafely's non-existent defense over the middle under 10 yards.

Both sides of the ball & ST - How about we quit with the penalties. They nearly cost us the game today.

Studs - Parsons hands down. Next is Jacobs & Quay Walker. Give the kicker a game ball too.
Spot on V.

I'm concerned with the wide open space from the LOS to 10 yards out. It seems devoid of defenders.

And how could Hafley or the CBs not adjusted for McBride after his first TD? He was not covered on his second TD. How does that happen?
 

Heyjoe4

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What irritates me is we're supposed to be one of the top teams for quarterback pressures, and you'd think that would translate to some INTs once in a while. I can't even remember the last turnover we picked up.
Agreed. They showed the D ranking 1st and 2nd in the big defensive categories, yards and points allowed I think. That's great.

At the same time, the Packers are close to last place in forced TOs. CBs should be jumping routes now and then with the pressure applied by the DEs and LBs.
 

Heyjoe4

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Studs

Micah - oh my word!!! He may be the 2nd coming of Reggie.

Love - showed great poise and improvised. He is getting more confident.

Quay - he is arriving as who we thought he would be. He has cat like quickness at times and really likes to blow plays up.

Cooper - He continues to grow. His range is impressive.

Kraft - keep targeting him as he is our strength through the air on O.

Jacobs - not feeling well and he gutted it out begging back into the game. 2 tds each week last 3 weeks. Beasty

Havrisik - we may want to keep this kid. He will be on another NFL team within minutes if they cut him loose.

Duds

Hobbs - worst performance of a db in a looong time. T Buck like. Getting roasted every other play.

Lafluer - first half play calling was some of the worst Ive seen.

Heath - never open, and penalized as well. Put Bo Melton in.


All in all, they grinded it out and got a gutty win on the road. Lots of wounded now. This team gets healthy with Wyatts return to 100 pct and this team can go a long way, but this offensive play calling has to improve and STOP RUNNING SHOTGUN LOVE IS NOT RODGERS and 10 is better off behind center as play action plays a part. The fact that this team was not prepared in the first half makes everyone question coaching and it starts at the top. I could definitely see the pack make a trade for a decent corner as Hobbs has wore out his welcome. He is constantly out of position. I couldnt give special teams a dud due to the kicking and punting games.
Now over to Pittsburgh and the whiny primadonna old man.
Good point on the absence of the RPO, with Love in shotgun so often. Seems like MLF's play calling has gotten very predictable. There were some notable exceptions, like that 4th down conversion very late in the game. That was a ballsy call and the Packers executed very nicely.
 

Heyjoe4

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Parsons was huge. His sacks saved the day.

Kraft- When he's targeted, good things happen. Hey MLF, throw it to him even more

Doubs- Dependable and made some big grabs

D Line- pass rush was consistent and they shut the run down in the second half

Havrisik- big leg for sure

Duds
Hobbs- wow does he suck. Needs to be benched

Special Teams- need I say more?

Hafley- seems to be mismanaging Cooper and the CB's suck. I thought he was a secondary coach.

MFL- what does it take to get a coach fired in GB? Bisaccia should be long gone. Special Teams can't get any worse
STs keeps finding new mistakes to make.
 

Heyjoe4

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I mean let me get on my soap box for a brief moment and allow recency bias steer my ship far too much and likely unrealistically....

Rich Bisaccia deserves every bit of criticism sent his way but DEAR LORD folks IMO if I'm Gute I'm sittingMLF down and being very blunt to him about two things:

- Rich needs to be the assistant head coach or the ST coordinator - he must have one taken given the performance of his unit is NOT close to standards - MINIMUM. (there get that out of the way.

- Gute - "Look Hobbs was a mistake by me and everyone who thought he could be the outside answer. He is a violent, willing tackler out of the middle and slot, we are done with him outside though unless he wasn't healthy enough to play fully in the desert - which if that is the case even more so what I'm about to say needs said. Hafley's secondary and corners specifically just gave up a 110+ quarterback rating and nearly 300 yards passing to Jacoby Brissett on a day where the defensive front gave them 27 pressures, six sacks. How is that possible? I don't care if he needs to start telling guys to sit down and we work our way clear to Bo Melton out there - DO IT! Carrington Valentine did nothing but progress all these years, he is a gamer - get his *** out there more. Change for the sake of change is never a good thing, change in response to TERRIBLE performance is not for the sake of change, it is the pursuit of being better. Oh and while I'm in here LET LOVE COOK, that was for Tynimiller's sake - k get it done!
I don't consider your comments as being delivered from a soap box. You're right, and the CB situation is a disaster. To your point, with so many pressures and sacks, how on earth does an average, journeyman QB have a game like had?

It seems like the defense has abandoned the middle part of the field 10 yards past the LOS (someone else pointed this out).

But Brissett was also hitting on deep routes, bone crushing when it happens on 3rd and 23, as it did.

Well a win is a win, and thank the gods for Parsons. Gluten will have to makeover the CB group this offseason. Not sure why CB seems to be a perennial weak spot for the Pack. In the meantime, yeah, keep Hobbs in the slot.
 

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Whoa!!! No, I had not looked at his stats, but I just did now, and you nailed it - 36 catches, 0 drops. What a season he's having so far.

Over 6 games, he has 36 catches, 302 yards, 4 TDs. Extrapolate that out over 17 games, you'd be looking at 102 catches, 855 yards, and 12 TDs. We haven't had those kinds of numbers from a WR since the Davante Days.

It's going to be hard to not extend him, much less trade him. I haven't noticed very much ''trade Doubs'' talk lately, come to think of it.
This is what I've been telling people right along about Romeo. You have to watch his play and analyze it, not look at his concussions last year and week of frustration. He is a consummate receiver who thrives in that shorter route zone where most receivers aren't nearly as productive because they don't know how to utilize their hands and body in making catches.

Don't get fooled by his not gaining 1,000 yards. That's a measure of yardage that only applies to the guys who make the catches in longer routes. Usually, they fail miserably in shorter routes because they don't have the thicker bodies to absorb more punishment.

When you watch Doubs, concentrate on how he works his routes, getting in range of a first down when the chains need to be moved. If you look at Romeo's YAC, you'd say it's horrible. Only 68 yards. But that's not understanding stats and how to evaluate them. Romeo makes contested catches at a phenomenal rate. By far the best on the team in my opinion. With so many of those catches, they move the chain. In fact, I think it's about 75% of the time.

Because of how he's deployed, and the fact that he catches a high percentage of catches based on his being the target.

Some experts say he is kind of limited in his route running skills, but I disagree. He runs the route with minor differences that makes it possible for him to become a target. A receiver who knows they are likely to have the ball thrown to them will modify the route some to insure they keep their body between the defenders and the ball so nobody can catch it but them. This is the same thing that's made some of the best historical pass receivers great. They make sure they help the QB make the throw; they don't let him throw it dead into coverage for an interception. Romeo did that on one pass thrown in his direction against the Cardinals. He couldn't gain position so he made sure the ball would not be caught by the defender, and if I recall correctly, it was in the end zone.

To sum it up, they should have already extended Doubs. They should have known that. Now it's going to cost them a lot more, and it's possible they won't be offering enough, and he'll take his game elsewhere.
 

tynimiller

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This is what I've been telling people right along about Romeo. You have to watch his play and analyze it, not look at his concussions last year and week of frustration. He is a consummate receiver who thrives in that shorter route zone where most receivers aren't nearly as productive because they don't know how to utilize their hands and body in making catches.

Don't get fooled by his not gaining 1,000 yards. That's a measure of yardage that only applies to the guys who make the catches in longer routes. Usually, they fail miserably in shorter routes because they don't have the thicker bodies to absorb more punishment.

When you watch Doubs, concentrate on how he works his routes, getting in range of a first down when the chains need to be moved. If you look at Romeo's YAC, you'd say it's horrible. Only 68 yards. But that's not understanding stats and how to evaluate them. Romeo makes contested catches at a phenomenal rate. By far the best on the team in my opinion. With so many of those catches, they move the chain. In fact, I think it's about 75% of the time.

Because of how he's deployed, and the fact that he catches a high percentage of catches based on his being the target.

Some experts say he is kind of limited in his route running skills, but I disagree. He runs the route with minor differences that makes it possible for him to become a target. A receiver who knows they are likely to have the ball thrown to them will modify the route some to insure they keep their body between the defenders and the ball so nobody can catch it but them. This is the same thing that's made some of the best historical pass receivers great. They make sure they help the QB make the throw; they don't let him throw it dead into coverage for an interception. Romeo did that on one pass thrown in his direction against the Cardinals. He couldn't gain position so he made sure the ball would not be caught by the defender, and if I recall correctly, it was in the end zone.

To sum it up, they should have already extended Doubs. They should have known that. Now it's going to cost them a lot more, and it's possible they won't be offering enough, and he'll take his game elsewhere.

I think one could easily argue give Doubs' just steady and consistent production, big play ability, trust from Love is clear.....committing to Doubs longer than 2026 is the best fiscal decision in the receiving room....after 2026 you let Reed and Watson show who gets signed AFTER Kraft does.

Would love to see a 3 or 4 year extension if they could swing it getting Doubs for that $10M-$12M a year deal.
 
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This is what I've been telling people right along about Romeo. You have to watch his play and analyze it, not look at his concussions last year and week of frustration. He is a consummate receiver who thrives in that shorter route zone where most receivers aren't nearly as productive because they don't know how to utilize their hands and body in making catches.

Don't get fooled by his not gaining 1,000 yards. That's a measure of yardage that only applies to the guys who make the catches in longer routes. Usually, they fail miserably in shorter routes because they don't have the thicker bodies to absorb more punishment.

When you watch Doubs, concentrate on how he works his routes, getting in range of a first down when the chains need to be moved. If you look at Romeo's YAC, you'd say it's horrible. Only 68 yards. But that's not understanding stats and how to evaluate them. Romeo makes contested catches at a phenomenal rate. By far the best on the team in my opinion. With so many of those catches, they move the chain. In fact, I think it's about 75% of the time.

Because of how he's deployed, and the fact that he catches a high percentage of catches based on his being the target.

Some experts say he is kind of limited in his route running skills, but I disagree. He runs the route with minor differences that makes it possible for him to become a target. A receiver who knows they are likely to have the ball thrown to them will modify the route some to insure they keep their body between the defenders and the ball so nobody can catch it but them. This is the same thing that's made some of the best historical pass receivers great. They make sure they help the QB make the throw; they don't let him throw it dead into coverage for an interception. Romeo did that on one pass thrown in his direction against the Cardinals. He couldn't gain position so he made sure the ball would not be caught by the defender, and if I recall correctly, it was in the end zone.

To sum it up, they should have already extended Doubs. They should have known that. Now it's going to cost them a lot more, and it's possible they won't be offering enough, and he'll take his game elsewhere.
Disgree. Doubs is one concussion (play) from the end of his career.
 

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I don't care if he needs to start telling guys to sit down and we work our way clear to Bo Melton out there - DO IT!
If you are saying to start playing some of the other corners on our roster; I agree. Why are they on the team? They can hardly do worse. I will say my gripe with Valentine is he plays too loose and gives up first downs. If he can correct that; he'd be very good. There does not seem to be a place for Hobbs. Bullard looks pretty good. But it's tough for me to know. And somebody is giving up completions. It doesn't help to play Cooper on obvious pass plays unless he blitzes imho.
 

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