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Any point in winning now?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by mattresell, Nov 22, 2005.

  1. mattresell

    mattresell Cheesehead

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    I'm serious about this post. From this point forward, what is the benefit of winning games. I guess just pride.

    By nature I will root for the Pack to win every game through the rest of year. But every loss puts us in better draft position. I've only been following the Pack closely for about 12 years, so I've never been in this situation.

    Obviously I never want to lose, but there are benefits, no?

    What are your thoughts?

    Is finishing the season at 6-10 really that much better than 3-13? For what, to save face? We're still sitting at home in the playoffs.

    I really think that if guys come back healthy next year, we are one playmaker on either side of the ball from being a top 5 NFC team. A top 5 draft pick can get us that playmaker.
     
  2. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

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    I believe that they are farther away than one player. I still think that Favre will call it a day at the end of the season and you have no guarantee about Green or Walker. As bad as things are for the Packers this year I think that the next few years are actually going to be worse. If they win 5 or 6 games then you have no shot at Bush or Lienart so Rodgers had better be the real deal and real fast or it will be ugly.
     
  3. sunshine

    sunshine Cheesehead

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    any point in winning now??...well, my head tells me no but my heart says yes.
    i really don't think brett will retire after this season. based on his competitive nature, i can't imagine him walking away after a season like this. but there is alot of behind the scene BS that none of us is privvy to that might make the decision for him. time will tell, guys. and the true packer fans will be there to find out - the fair weather fans will move on to the next best thing.
     
  4. rabidgopher04

    rabidgopher04 Cheesehead

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    I'd say let it tank so we can get the #1 draft pick. ;)

    Actually, that would send a bad message to the rest of the team and then no one will really want to come to Green Bay because we don't bother to try. That's what happened with the Brewers for so many years and now things are finally turning around there.
     
  5. Miskito

    Miskito Cheesehead

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    The Bears' recent past history has given me the ability to answer this question with authority. I thought the same way in the late 90's - I hoped the Bears would lose every game after a dismal start in order to get a top pick. I stopped that train of thought just recently for two reasons:
    1)Top picks are more than likely overrated and
    2)You should never root against your team.

    For the first one, perhaps it was just the Bears' decisions on whom to pick that were ending up as busts, but most of the top players never seemed to work out. They got more production from those taken in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds.

    For the second point, it would make me sick trying to root for the Bears to lose. It's not natural. How could you root against your team when you see them struggling so hard to get a "meaningless" win. They don't care about a #1 pick, they simply want to win.

    I don't envy you Packer fans this tough year, but you should not give up on them. They are still playing tough. You should be with them on every snap and support them unconditionally especially through their most struggling year.
     
  6. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    Miskito...

    you're right about #1 picks overhyped...what if the Packers play to lose, and Reggie Bush turns out to be another Mandrich, Akili Smith, Tim Couch....

    but at the same time...what has the potential to benefit the franchise more? The shot at a top draft pick, or a 5-11 season?
     
  7. Cheesehog

    Cheesehog Cheesehead

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    If it were the Pack kicking the winning feild goal, Fans would be talking about the possibility of still winning the division instead of nonsense of "tanking"" the rest of the season,(which by the way, would would never, EVER happen). It really was a close game and that vike FG was almost blocked.

    The close, "losing in the last second" games hurt more than the blowouts which you are prepared for the end outcome.

    Some of the teams atop in the nfl now had previous Losing seasons that they finished strong at the end, to carry over what ever momentum that can be gained from it, into the following year.

    With all the key playmakers injured, you really can't point your finger at one particular play, coach, player, etc. It upsets the balance on defence, offence and special teams. A really good assesment can't be made of a job if the toolbox the worker had was missing his most important tools.
     
  8. bavpb

    bavpb Cheesehead

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    One of the better posts on this board I read lately!! (though of a Bears- fan :wink: :lol: :wink: )
    Some of our so called "diehard" Packers- fans and -experts should read it word by word.
    Hoping for a predicted #1 pick (R.Bush - IF he goes pro, M. Leinhard - IF he'll be #1, IF we get the #1, IF the November prediction -R. Bush- is #1 in April 2006 (like ARod??)) is much too uncertain.
    Instead of booing and kicking a..es (M.S., B.F., T.T., OL, DL ........) we should take it as it is and accept that this is no Packer- year (so far).
    With a little more luck we still can go 8 : 8, even if it is more unlikely than it was on sunday.
    I remember a signature (only the sense) on this board but I can't recall the member. I was s.th. like : "Even if they go 0 : 16, I will never stop rooting for them!"
    This is bavpb and that is my take. 8) :wink:
     
  9. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

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    As highly paid professionals who are athletes competing every moment of everyday, they BETTER play to win EVERY game.

    I don't care if they are in LAST place or have the chance to get the 1st pick. NO ONE should tank the season for ANY reason.

    If you are NOT playing to win, you should NOT be playing. There lies the dilemma of the Packer FAN.

    IF the Packer players and coaches tank the rest of the season, they need to be replaced. IF they continue to play hard with what they have, they will win some games and though they may not make playoffs, may not even have a winning season but they still have the honor of dieing with dignity.

    To rise again with bettter talent, depth and the ATTITUDE.

    Ask ANY coach what attitude means to a team...
     
  10. Cheesehog

    Cheesehog Cheesehead

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    Ditto. Good Post.
     
  11. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Here, here - that "attitude" was missing in this game.
    Does it only show up when we are on the road, these days?

    I find it hard to believe that the Team ran out of gas in the 2nd half...
    I'm still re-hashing in my head...

    You guys know me pretty well - I write as I speak... like ol' John Madden, in his books... and like Zero2cool's siggy - the lot of us "aren't" going anywhere... we're all still DIEHARDS and loving it.... Just the same, we all got a right to gripe, when players (or Coaches) drop the ball - especially the "attitude" ball.....
     
  12. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    Attitude....mmmmmmmm.... can we get a coach with a winning attitude whit the 1st draft pick??? No...... Attitude....mmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... can we ask our players to stop doing their best for a draft pick???? No...

    IMHO we have a decent group of players with that need to get a decent HC and a decent OC. So far this group of players have been talented enough to save the not so decent HC and OC, but this is not the case anymore.
     
  13. carol k

    carol k Cheesehead

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    According to our local radio station, the vikings are going to play the bears for the division and win. I think there is a point in winning here. Just for pride's sake. I will back my packers no matter what as I think most Packer fans will--unlike my viking fan friends who were all through with the vikings after the boat party, but now are backing them again because they are winning. Oh well.
     
  14. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    There is no point in playing to lose. No real player ever wants to be in that situation and I doubt that any FA would look at a team who goes down that road.

    You play the game to win. We could end upsetting one of our top rivals in the process. But the major benefit at this point will be to gain experience for all of the young players on this team. You won't get good experience by trying to lose.

    A couple years ago the top draft pick was can't miss Eli Manning. Rivers was a sure bet at #5 and Big Ben was ok at #12. It turns out that Big Ben is currently the best of the 3.

    The point is that you never know how well a college player will be in the pros, so it's meaningless to tank games in order to move up a few spots in the draft. Heck, if I were TT with the #1 pick, I'd trade down to pick up extra picks in later rounds.
     
  15. mattresell

    mattresell Cheesehead

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    I don't think anyone is suggesting that we root against the Packers. I know I am certainly not. What I'm wondering is how upset I should get after a loss. When we were in playoff races the past 10 years, a loss pretty much ruined my week. This year, besides losing to rivals, I'm pretty much over the loss by Tuesday. I guess I'm just looking at the silver lining.
     
  16. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    We have six games left to win and We back the team 101 % . Cheers All.
     
  17. dren23

    dren23 Cheesehead

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    It has nothing to do with the franchise. It has to do with the fans who payed good money and may have waited years to get tickets for a game. When was the last time you guys didn't sell out? The chance for post season play is over, but the stadium will still be full. The pack must play to win for them. They deserve it.
     
  18. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    This "is", people - exactly what Ted Thompson's modus operandi.. is!
    TT is famous... for trading down to elicit up to four more Draft Picks than normal. I have no doubt this next Spring, we'll see more of the same.
     
  19. MajicMan

    MajicMan Cheesehead

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    I hate this whole diehard Packers fan "root for your team" garbage.

    I am rooting for whats best for the health of this organization!

    And that is nothing less then a lose, every single game, from here on out.

    Reggie Bush is all that matters as far as GBP focus from here on out concerning this season...

    Niners, Texans, and whoever else fans can worry about playing for the intense pride of getting 4 victories, I'll play for getting the #1 and taking a RB with the upside to bring multiple titles to titletown...

    This team is sick. Worry about the cure...Not guiding the walking wounded to a couple wins. Amazing. It's easy to see why some teams that are worried about saving face, wallow in mediocrity or worse for decades...

    After watching the Pack play (most recently in the second half on MNF), we all must be confident that we have what it takes to get the job done this season. Man...Losing to that group of vikings gave me confidence we have a real chance to get this player (too bad the Falcons certainly didn't do us any favors).

    And no, I don't feel that the #1 pick is over-rated (certainly not this year). I think this one of the most important races we've seen in years. This Packer team can turn things around in a hurry...But not by winning a few meaningless games the rest of this season...

    Talk about loving my team. I'd love to see Favre-Bush-Walker-Driver next season...

    That's the hope to restore Packer pride.

    Packers and Packers fans.

    Just take the medicine!

    It may not taste great going down...But it's better than praying for 3-4 pride victories...

    "What pride really is there in that?" Are you going to remember this Pack team beating the Falcons, and a few other teams that didn't show up, or this Pack team being the first loser since '91? There is no pride this year! It is just bad news, all around.

    Let the healing begin.

    Go PACK Go! Bring home the bacon!

    Oh, and I agree with mattresell as far as the pain of this season goes...
     
  20. sixone220

    sixone220 Cheesehead

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    i don't think anyone here actually believes that the team should try to lose but as someone posted, how upset should one be after a loss? with bush waiting at #1, i get over losses a lot quicker. i would much rather go 2-14 and take bush then beat the bears a couple times. i won't be cheering against the pack as that's just not in me, but when the game is over and the sting of the loss fades, i feel ok about being one game closer to reggie.

    reggie WILL go pro and ben is not a better qb than eli. they are asked to do 2 completly different things and rivers can't be judged when he hasn't played.
     
  21. PPierce

    PPierce Cheesehead

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    I always cheer for the Packers. As a fan, I can't help it. Even if we get a high draft pick, we won't go first and Reggie will be gone. I understand the one "silver lining" angle, but unless we get the first pick, which we won't, thank God, we won't get Bush.
     
  22. sixone220

    sixone220 Cheesehead

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    i wouldn't be so sure that we won't have a shot at #1. 6 games left. i doubt we win at phi. i expect to lose both to the bears. i don't see alexander not running all over in a seattle win. we could beat the lions at home. at balt is 50-50 and i forget the other game.
     
  23. mattresell

    mattresell Cheesehead

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    I still believe that no matter who is drafting #1, that team will take Leinart or somebody will move up to get him. Everyone wants a QB these days and the trend in the league is getting a RB later.

    With that said, I would still expect Reggie(who I want) to go number 2. I don't see us drafting that high.

    I see us from the 4-7 range depending on tiebreakers.

    If that were the case, I wouldn't be surpised or upset to see us trade down for extra picks. I think the difference between the #4 pick and the #12-17 pick is very minimal.

    Let's say for a minute that we had the 4-7 pick, assuming Bush and Leinart(who I don't want b/c I like Rodgers) are gone. Who do we take?

    I've suggested before the safety from LSU, Laron Landry. I love this guy. I don't know if you guys just didn't respond or if you don't know much about him. I compare him to Brian Dawkins, a guy who supports the run but also has great cover skills. He's better than the much hyped Darnell Bing.

    We also have the option of taking a premier linebacker; AJ Hawk, Ahmad Brooks, or Chad Greenway. Either of the 3 add a playmaker to the D.

    I think the top 2 of the draft are Bush and Leinart. I'd ove to hold one of those positions, either to take Bush or trade the pick to a team willing to give up alot for Leinart.

    The next 4-6 picks can provide a playmaker on defense.

    If we aren't in the top 7, I'd hope to trade down for extra picks.
     
  24. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

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    What if Arizona decided two years ago to just tank it on the last week of the season. They had noithing to play for, except the fact that they are professionals who get paid to play at their very best at all times, because of that attitude, Packers went to the play-offs instead of The Vikings.

    I have yet to see any quit on this team. The breaks aren't going our way this year, I will not blame anyone or will not use injuries as excuses, **** happens!!!!

    I will stand by this team as I have every team for the last 40 years!!!

    Those of you who think Brett should sit down, what good is it for Rogers to come in and run for his life, how many rookie QB's have been ruined by the fact they were thrown into the fire to soon?

    The Bengals finally figured it out, Carson Palmer never took a snap in his first year, he seems to be doing alright, now compare him with David Klingler and Akili Smith, two other Bengal qb's who weren't given the chance to watch and learn.

    This season isn't what anyone thought or wanted it to be, but there are 6 games left, and I for one hope I don't see anyone quitting, you start seeing that and then you have real problems.
     
  25. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Alrighty guys -- here this... and here it good.....

    1. The Packers are NOT going to go out and lose all the rest of their games "on purpose"... Brett won't let it happen!

    2. I DO NOT WANT.... the first pick in next year's Draft --- my advice to Ted Thompson, would be to trade down for two picks in a later round, along with a certain player to be named later, or even more draft picks for the year after (2007) ... it is ludicrous to believe that this Reggie Bush character "definitely has" all the tools to make it in the NFL... simply ludicrous ... He's been playing with a stellar cast over at USC - and hasn't had to work for it, nearly as much as some other guys, like in Texas and down in Florida, etc., etc! Bush is playing in what's considered by the real pundits .. a rigged situation - which in almost all cases will never fail, unless the Players are creating their own version of the Vikings Love Boat.... I cite Cadillac Williams, as a prime example -- can you imagine who wins the game against Tampa, pending we played them NOW, instead of early on.....

    3. Mike Sherman will be back - I cite Ron Wolf's latest article for the reasoning of this comment - go read it... it's listed in another message thread right here on PF.com ... but go re-read it ... several times.....

    4. Knowing Sherman stays put (?) -- Brett Favre returns, knocking off yet another year of his largesse contract... quite a few years there left for the Pack to absorb, too ... so, remember, TT will have to deal with that in either 2007 or 2008.

    5. Quite a few of the contracts coming up at the end of this Season will take the same road Mike Wahle took - it really is, as simple as that. I do not look for Ahman Green to be coming back ... call it a gut feeling, like what I had about Wahle... Remember, this next Draft is EXTREMELY Running Back "heavy"....

    6. I would watch the "FA / Draft" web site(s) ... starting right now!

    And, finally - even though it most likely WON'T happen ...

    7. I think Ted Thompson should ask for Tom Rossley's resignation -- whether Mike Sherman likes it or not, period - end of story.... If you're going to review effort, production and success/loss ratios - Tom Rossley only succeeds when we still had the Ron Wolf Offense - now that it's gone ... he's getting NOTHING from his tactics which produce.. "squat" -- it's time to fish or cut bait!

    Dang - this comment should actually be a thread of its own.... I need a beer, and it's only 7:40am

    Comments, people - let's hear 'em!
     

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