Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp...

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

He was holding out. He didn't show up OTA's and he missed a camp. That's a hold out.

Holding out is when you miss something mandatory, not voluntary camps.

 

[packedhouse01]

Zero, that's just semantics. The man didn't show up to support his team. Whether is voluntary or not, he didn't show up to something that he was expected to be at. If it sounds like a hold out, smells like a hold out, it's a hold out.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

Zero, that's just semantics. The man didn't show up to support his team. Whether is voluntary or not, he didn't show up to something that he was expected to be at. If it sounds like a hold out, smells like a hold out, it's a hold out.

It doesn't sound like a hold out, it doesn't smell like a hold out, therefore its NOT a hold out.

You have no argument here. None once so ever.

Should he have been there? That's debatable, he's a veteran, but with a new staff on board everyone should be there to soak up as much as they can. If our staff was in its third year an he had three years under his belt with that staff, I'd say its not so vital.

Under your flawed logic, we'd have a lot of hold outs. I do believe even Brett missed a few OTA's so was he a holding out?

 

[packedhouse01]

Brett was excused if you recall. You can call whatever you want to. I certainly respect your support of Al Harris. The bottom line however is that he was making a pretty good stink about his contract and made no bones about not coming to OTA's or that last mini camp. It came through his agent, I believe, that he wasn't coming in to protest his contract. he didn't show up to things he should have been to. And because I call Al Harris out, doesn't mean I condone anyone else missing these OTA's or camps either. When you sign a contract to play for a team, especially at the money these guys all make, you have an obligation not only to your team but also your teammates to be there. To me if you're not there and the only reason you're not there is because you don't like your contract, it's a holdout. But Zero, you can call it whatever you want. I'll go with that.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

Brett was excused if you recall. You can call whatever you want to. I certainly respect your support of Al Harris. The bottom line however is that he was making a pretty good stink about his contract and made no bones about not coming to OTA's or that last mini camp. It came through his agent, I believe, that he wasn't coming in to protest his contract. he didn't show up to things he should have been to. And because I call Al Harris out, doesn't mean I condone anyone else missing these OTA's or camps either. When you sign a contract to play for a team, especially at the money these guys all make, you have an obligation not only to your team but also your teammates to be there. To me if you're not there and the only reason you're not there is because you don't like your contract, it's a holdout. But Zero, you can call it whatever you want. I'll go with that.

I'm not supporting him or anyone here, just stating how it really is. I know where you're coming from, totally.

I agree, you sign a contract you show up, however the things he is missing are not in his contract hence why he is not being fined for missing them.

He's doing the bare minimum and walking the line of being fined but making sure not to cross it in his attempt to prove his point. I don't like people like that, we have some of those on this forum in fact. That's besides the point.

I think slacker is more suitable then labeling them a hold out.


I like how Harris is going with this from what I've heard recently. Which is he wants more money, yes, but he said he's going to prove it on the field this year and if the Packers don't give him what he feels he deserves he'll go elsewhere. He's stated he's loyal to the Packers an will give them everychance to retain him (or I presume he'll force a trade or sit out). I think he also said that publicly to somewhat push Ted into signing him for more money by letting the fans know he's wanting to continue being a Packer and its up to Ted to make it happen.

He's going about this similar to what Javon did last year after his tissy fit. Javon said he wanted to be a Packer, would prove his worth the next season, missed voluntary camps, showed up for training camp, then got hurt then cried his way out of town.

 

[packedhouse01]

Good points Zero. My point is simply this regarding Al, Javon, McKenzie etc. is that when you sign a contract you live to the contract. If you want to change it go to your boss and talk to him and say, "hey how about a raise? I've produced for you, I've been a good leader, I deserve better." But when you take it to the media, when you don't show up for things that a good teammate does, then you become a distraction. I'll say the same thing for Woodson. The OTA's would have been a great opportunity for him to build some commeraderie with his teammmates. If he was injured, if his kids were sick, if he had a sick parent, I can accept that. I can't accept I'm going on vacation. When you sign the contract, you sign to do even things that aren't mandatory. I'll tell you what, I disagreed with Sherman when he excused Brett Favre from mini camps last year. He's a leader on this team, his team needed him. Now, if you don't want him throwing or working out, ok, but he too should have been there.

Again Zero, just my opinion, it doesn't mean I think you're wrong. You make valid points and I respect that.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

Good points Zero. My point is simply this regarding Al, Javon, McKenzie etc. is that when you sign a contract you live to the contract. If you want to change it go to your boss and talk to him and say, "hey how about a raise? I've produced for you, I've been a good leader, I deserve better." But when you take it to the media, when you don't show up for things that a good teammate does, then you become a distraction. I'll say the same thing for Woodson. The OTA's would have been a great opportunity for him to build some commeraderie with his teammmates. If he was injured, if his kids were sick, if he had a sick parent, I can accept that. I can't accept I'm going on vacation. When you sign the contract, you sign to do even things that aren't mandatory. I'll tell you what, I disagreed with Sherman when he excused Brett Favre from mini camps last year. He's a leader on this team, his team needed him. Now, if you don't want him throwing or working out, ok, but he too should have been there.

Again Zero, just my opinion, it doesn't mean I think you're wrong. You make valid points and I respect that.

Yeah the dude goes on MTV Cribs an flaunts his stuff then says he needs/wants more money?? Maybe one of his buds has better stuff an he wants one up him??

Looking back on it, I agree on the disagreement of sherman letting Brett skip camp. He's the leader and should be there.

 

[cheesey]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

Zero, thats what REALLY bugs me. It's not that Harris felt underpaid, it's all because SOMEONE got MORE money then he did. Had someone NOT got more then him, i don't think we would have heard a peep out of him.
It's all this over inflated ego that these guys have. It's rediculous.

 

[eastcoastpacker]

on the packer report.com it said that Haris get below average in the nfl for his position.It went up that much since he signed his contract,so I think it would be wise to say,give him a bonus this season somehow. JMO

 

[Lare]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

Before we all go patting Harris on the back for being such a team player and reporting to camp, we should realize that another possible factor in him not missing any days could be the fact that the daily fines for missing TC went up to $14,000 per day this year from the $6,000 per day last year.

Bottom line, like pretty much everything else in life decisions like this generally come down to money out of someone's pocket.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

Before we all go patting Harris on the back for being such a team player and reporting to camp, we should realize that another possible factor in him not missing any days could be the fact that the daily fines for missing TC went up to $14,000 per day this year from the $6,000 per day last year.

Bottom line, like pretty much everything else in life decisions like this generally come down to money out of someone's pocket.

Who's patting him on the back for honoring his contract?


Here's the only source I have about the fines being more than doubled. It's from a website based on rumors so take it for what its worth to ya.

POSTED 10:00 p.m. EDT, July 21, 2006

HOLDOUT FINES MORE THAN DOUBLE

A league source tells us that the daily fines for a training camp holdout have shot from $6,000 per day to $14,000 per day under the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

It's not presently clear whether the deal was reached in March, or whether it's the result of subsequent discussions. The "Term Sheet" setting forth the March 2006 changes to the CBA does not include any reference to an increase in daily fines.

In this context, the term "holdout" refers only to players who are under contract. Rookie draft picks are not subject to fines for missing camp, since they have not yet signed a contract.

The most likely training camp holdout this year is Broncos receiver Ashley Lelie, who earlier this month skipped out on a mandatory minicamp.

 

[packedhouse01]

This discussion has been a good one because even though we argue certain points we also agree that this is, at the very least, a serious issue. It's not a symptom of an illness, it is the illness. How much money is enough? I mean these guys will make more money in one year than most of us will make in a lifetime. Granted, they put their bodies on the line every day and every game for our entertainment. I think all we as fans are asking of the players is to honor the contract they signed. When their contract comes up again and they've done well, they're going to get a sizeable raise. Most GM's would rather sign a great player to a good contract before their contract runs out, so for Al Harris his payday is yet to come. For Javon Walker, all he had to do was continue to play well and he would have broke the bank. It's all about patience. I don't believe for a moment that TT doesn't feel that Al Harris is deserving of a better contract, but his charge is the welfare of the Green Bay Packers, and it's not good business to redo a guys contract until it's time. So Walker says, "I'll retire before I play for the Packers." Al Harris doesn't come to the OTA's and misses a camp. Now TT and his group has to start thinking in terms of, "is this the kind of guy we want on our team, is he a malcontent and if we pay him is he going to cause problems?" I don't sense that Al Harris would be like that, but the truth is, he also didn't show up for work when most of his teammates did. If I were TT I'd be asking myself how much I want to invest in someone whose history is now that he become disgruntled when someone signs a better contract than he has, because the truth is when Al signs his next contract, someone else is going to sign a better contract. Do we go through this all over again? Think about it.

 

[4packgirl]

yes, i agree - excellent discussion everyone. as far as the players putting their bodies on the line everyday, exactly HOW many days out of the year do they REALLY do that?? there are alot of hard working people in dangerous jobs who really DO put their lives on the line EVERY DAY - i don't put football players into that category.

they are paid handsomely to "entertain" - they are not out there saving someones life or anything. they have talent that in most cases was God given & for that they should become instant millionaires?? in a perfect world, that would not be the case.

the love of money is the root of all evil - truer words were never spoken!

 

[Lare]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

Here's the only source I have about the fines being more than doubled. It's from a website based on rumors so take it for what its worth to ya.

It's also being reported on ESPN. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2528179

 

[tromadz]

well this is a step in the right direction

 

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Al Harris says once again, he will be in training camp..

Here's the only source I have about the fines being more than doubled. It's from a website based on rumors so take it for what its worth to ya.

It's also being reported on ESPN. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2528179

Yeah, days later they stole it from the rumor site lol