Ahmad Carroll

packedhouse01

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Ahmad Carroll is awful. He cannot play football at this level and he is completely overmatched. He looks like another GM Sherman bust to go along with Petersen, Washington, Lee and Joey Thomas. And what the heck is up with Ferguson? Is this guy ever going to be healthy?
 
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house, I think Carroll is getting better. You have to remember he only just turned 22. Still a young man by all means, so hopefully he continues to develop. So far, at least he hasn't held as many times, and from all accounts on the game against the Bills, he did a solid or at least average job. Good step for him and packer fans all around.
 

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packedhouse01 said:
Ahmad Carroll is awful. He cannot play football at this level and he is completely overmatched. He looks like another GM Sherman bust to go along with Petersen, Washington, Lee and Joey Thomas. And what the heck is up with Ferguson? Is this guy ever going to be healthy?

Huh? What camp and game are you watching? Carroll and Thomas are greatly improved and both will be players in the NFL. Petersen and Washington are fighting for their playing lives, but this is hardly breaking news.

Your opinions seem to be prejudged -- and don't change regardless of current performance.
 

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Yes it is true Carroll is doing a lot lot lot better in camp this year. Do you remember what he looked like last year at this time in camp and in games. :puke: it was as bad as it is now and much worse in camp last year.
 

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Bruce said:
packedhouse01 said:
Ahmad Carroll is awful. He cannot play football at this level and he is completely overmatched. He looks like another GM Sherman bust to go along with Petersen, Washington, Lee and Joey Thomas. And what the heck is up with Ferguson? Is this guy ever going to be healthy?

Huh? What camp and game are you watching? Carroll and Thomas are greatly improved and both will be players in the NFL. Petersen and Washington are fighting for their playing lives, but this is hardly breaking news.

Your opinions seem to be prejudged -- and don't change regardless of current performance.


Do not fool yourself. Ahmad still sucks. Has he improved? yeah, probably, I hope so. But so far I seen he's went from 'god awful' to just 'horrible.' I mean, just cuz the words "improved" and "getting better" are thrown around, don't mean he's close behind Al Harris when it comes to skills. And from everything I've read and heard, Joey Thomas is just plain better than him. And when he comes back from his injury, and gets some rep, we can just mark Carroll as the Nickel Back. Till then, Ahmad will play, get 'experience,' and hopefully get better. And you say Ahmad will be a player in the NFL. Yeah..unless he doesnt move up from 'horrible' to 'bad.' If he stays at 'horrible,' you should sell your Carroll jersey ASAP.
 

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Carroll is improving, but when you're at the bottom of the , no when you ARE the bottom its impossible to get worse.

The Packers ought to trade their first round pick for later round picks. Perhaps get a stockpile of OL and trade them for position needs instead of actually drafting position needs.
 

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tromadz said:
Bruce said:
packedhouse01 said:
Ahmad Carroll is awful. He cannot play football at this level and he is completely overmatched. He looks like another GM Sherman bust to go along with Petersen, Washington, Lee and Joey Thomas. And what the heck is up with Ferguson? Is this guy ever going to be healthy?

Huh? What camp and game are you watching? Carroll and Thomas are greatly improved and both will be players in the NFL. Petersen and Washington are fighting for their playing lives, but this is hardly breaking news.

Your opinions seem to be prejudged -- and don't change regardless of current performance.


Do not fool yourself. Ahmad still sucks. Has he improved? yeah, probably, I hope so. But so far I seen he's went from 'god awful' to just 'horrible.' I mean, just cuz the words "improved" and "getting better" are thrown around, don't mean he's close behind Al Harris when it comes to skills. And from everything I've read and heard, Joey Thomas is just plain better than him. And when he comes back from his injury, and gets some rep, we can just mark Carroll as the Nickel Back. Till then, Ahmad will play, get 'experience,' and hopefully get better. And you say Ahmad will be a player in the NFL. Yeah..unless he doesnt move up from 'horrible' to 'bad.' If he stays at 'horrible,' you should sell your Carroll jersey ASAP.

Carrol has improved from the bottom which doesn't say much. He still got burned againt against Buffalo.
 

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packedhouse....good to see someone pick up chase's torch now that he has been banned. Don't forget....Sherman's ugly too!
 

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packedhouse and tromadz: I'm not sure why you guys are dumping on Carroll after this game. Did you watch the game? Carroll started and I only saw him make one mistake, giving too big a cushion on a third and seven, and when I watched that play on tape, it looked like it may have been a miscommunication between him and another DB. I've been down on Carroll all through training camp, but in this game he looked pretty good to me. Why dump on him now? Please give examples from the game if you have any. Maybe there's something I missed.

CalifPacker: Could you please explain your comment, "He still got again against Buffalo"? What the heck is that supposed to mean?
 

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Greg,

My typo error. Sorry about that. I corrected it. The play where Carrol played too deep on the 3rd & 7. I don't know if his gradual improvement is enough to make an impact by the time the season opens. Thomas was making very good strides before he got hurt so to rely on Carrol is not comforting at this time.
 

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Thanks for the correction, Calif. I don't like the thought of Carroll as a starter right now either, but he played pretty well last night. He's still in there fighting, and I give him credit for that. If he plays like that in the last two preseason games, there will be real hope for him to be able to step into that spot and play decently.
 

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"I mean, just cuz the words "improved" and "getting better" are thrown around, don't mean he's close behind Al Harris when it comes to skills."


this is hardly fair to expect a 22 yr old to be as good as an nfl vet.
 

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sixone220 said:
"I mean, just cuz the words "improved" and "getting better" are thrown around, don't mean he's close behind Al Harris when it comes to skills."


this is hardly fair to expect a 22 yr old to be as good as an nfl vet.

sixone220,

I don't think anyone is expecting Carrol to be as good as Harris but, Carrol has taken a long time - 2 mini camps and now TC to cut down on his holding/grabbing. The coaching staff has invested a lot of time and effort to assist him in breaking bad habits and take advantage of his speed, teach proper technics and make him a better player.

I would like to see Carrol improve to the point of being a starter or good back up.
 

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Greg C. said:
packedhouse and tromadz: I'm not sure why you guys are dumping on Carroll after this game. Did you watch the game? Carroll started and I only saw him make one mistake, giving too big a cushion on a third and seven, and when I watched that play on tape, it looked like it may have been a miscommunication between him and another DB. I've been down on Carroll all through training camp, but in this game he looked pretty good to me. Why dump on him now? Please give examples from the game if you have any. Maybe there's something I missed.

CalifPacker: Could you please explain your comment, "He still got again against Buffalo"? What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Thanks Greg, I was beginning to think I had watched the wrong game or something. Carroll gave up one play -- not a huge play, but one that gave the Bills a first down. Of course, ever corner that has ever played the game gives up a play or two thoughout the course of a game -- including Dion Sanders, but some seem to think that this kid who turned 22 about a week ago should make every single play and never make any mistakes or he should be cut.

He has performed in camp and in game situations. Does he have learning to do? Of course he does! He is a raw talent that is worth the investment. He not only is learning the game of football, he is learning the game of life. What I have witnessed is he is making great strides in both.
 

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CalifPacker said:
sixone220 said:
"I mean, just cuz the words "improved" and "getting better" are thrown around, don't mean he's close behind Al Harris when it comes to skills."


this is hardly fair to expect a 22 yr old to be as good as an nfl vet.

sixone220,

I don't think anyone is expecting Carrol to be as good as Harris but, Carrol has taken a long time - 2 mini camps and now TC to cut down on his holding/grabbing. The coaching staff has invested a lot of time and effort to assist him in breaking bad habits and take advantage of his speed, teach proper technics and make him a better player.

I would like to see Carrol improve to the point of being a starter or good back up.

You have seen it if you have watched his play.

Being a NFL corner-back is one of the hardest things to do period. Last season he was 20 years old when camp started and had only a very few years of football experience under his belt, when the league suddenly changed course and started cracking down on a style of play that CB coaches had been teaching young corners to do for many years -- grab, jerk and release.

He was extremely raw last season and should never have been thrown to the wolves like he was. There are two persons to blame for that (his being thrown to the wolves) -- Hawthorne, for being a pathetic veteran who could practice but turned into a coward once the coin was flipped and Slowik for not working to get Carroll ready last season, instead giving Hawthorne all the work with the number ones and than changing directions (something he was famous for on more than one level) and suddenly throwing a just turned 21 year old out to suffer the consequences without proper preparation.

Carroll is an extremely talented young kid. He will continue to improve (barring injury) and will be greatly improved over last season. He will have some growing pains -- all young NFL cornerbacks do. Carroll has learned to shut his mouth and has worked very hard since Thomas was promoted ahead of his back in mini-camps. My hope is that the two of them will push each other through intense competition until both are quality NFL starters. At this point Carroll has reclaimed his job and it is doubtful that Thomas will be able to take it away this season -- but this is the NFL, never say never.
 

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Carroll couldn't cover a wall if he were paint. The kid has no cover skills, doesn't tackle, and missess assignments all the time. In my opinion he's not going to be a player. I think he's awfu.
 

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Bruce said:
You have seen it if you have watched his play.

Being a NFL corner-back is one of the hardest things to do period. Last season he was 20 years old when camp started and had only a very few years of football experience under his belt, when the league suddenly changed course and started cracking down on a style of play that CB coaches had been teaching young corners to do for many years -- grab, jerk and release.


He's not being taught to repeat that after five yards. Therefore it does not fall onto the coachs who are coaching other players in the smae position who are not doing the same thing. When was the last you heard Harris needing boxing gloves to help him with his holding? How bout thomas? or any other DB for the Packers?

I want you to be right that he will be a 'player' I just don't see it happening for a few years at best.
 

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SlickVision said:
Bruce said:
You have seen it if you have watched his play.

Being a NFL corner-back is one of the hardest things to do period. Last season he was 20 years old when camp started and had only a very few years of football experience under his belt, when the league suddenly changed course and started cracking down on a style of play that CB coaches had been teaching young corners to do for many years -- grab, jerk and release.


He's not being taught to repeat that after five yards. Therefore it does not fall onto the coachs who are coaching other players in the smae position who are not doing the same thing. When was the last you heard Harris needing boxing gloves to help him with his holding? How bout thomas? or any other DB for the Packers?

I want you to be right that he will be a 'player' I just don't see it happening for a few years at best.

Harris is 31 years old and this is his 9th year in the NFL. He was not a starter his rookie season or for several after. He learned the craft from some great players while sitting behind them on the depth chart.

Thomas was God awful last year and was behind Carroll throughout the year. He could not tackle and was not ready for the NFL. He worked hard during the off-season, but has not been able to stay healthy -- thus he is watching Carroll progress and reclaim his job.

His (Carroll's) play is greatly improved. The game performance mixed with coaches appraisals all confirm this.

Both of these young men are Packers...
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They could use fan support and them getting behind him rather than being the recipient of all of this prejudice and hatred by fans with unrealistic expectations.
 

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How many times has Favre made the "shut down corners" look bad in the NFL, especially on 3rd and 7? Countless. He's improving and can be special if he keep his attitude towards "we" and away from "me". I still think he wouldn't be so exposed, or any of our secondary for that matter, if we can generate a consistent pass rush. We've been trying for 4 years to draft some O line disrupters.
 

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Bruce said:
Both of these young men are Packers...
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They could use fan support and them getting behind him rather than being the recipient of all of this prejudice and hatred by fans with unrealistic expectations.

Ahh that is why they are wearing Packer uniforms, that did have me puzzled.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see both of them succeed in green and gold however I just don't see it right now. I think Thomas will be a good DB once healthy and have always thought that. Carroll on the other hand I just dont' know. He's young very young so that is working in his favor as well as working in a non favorable way for him. He's a raw athlete with very limited football experience.

I think it was you who said it was a mistake to thrust him into the starting lineup and ya know I must agree. But also I think in order to be the best you have to go against the best which is what he did. I think for the Packers season it was wrong but for him in the long run it will make him a better player. Ya get what I'm saying? Not trying to be wishy washy here just trying to see on both sides of the fence.
 

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SlickVision said:
Bruce said:
Both of these young men are Packers...
You must be logged in to see this image or video!

They could use fan support and them getting behind him rather than being the recipient of all of this prejudice and hatred by fans with unrealistic expectations.

Ahh that is why they are wearing Packer uniforms, that did have me puzzled.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see both of them succeed in green and gold however I just don't see it right now. I think Thomas will be a good DB once healthy and have always thought that. Carroll on the other hand I just dont' know. He's young very young so that is working in his favor as well as working in a non favorable way for him. He's a raw athlete with very limited football experience.

I think it was you who said it was a mistake to thrust him into the starting lineup and ya know I must agree. But also I think in order to be the best you have to go against the best which is what he did. I think for the Packers season it was wrong but for him in the long run it will make him a better player. Ya get what I'm saying? Not trying to be wishy washy here just trying to see on both sides of the fence.

Like you I feel strongly both ways :D

While I think throwing him to the wolves was a mistake, if it did not shatter his confidence it will eventually help him be a better player -- after all his 22 birthday was just last week.

I like Thomas, but he does not have Carroll's physical ability. He is taller though, but nowhere near the burst or flexiblity in the hips and change of direction. I think both (barring injury) will have long NFL careers.
 

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Carroll can't cover anyone. He still bites too much on fakes. He plays too far off the receiver and he doesn't tackle. Dendy and Hawkins are both outplaying him. If he weren't a first round draft choice by Sherman he would be cut by now.
 

packedhouse01

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calicheesehead said:
How many times has Favre made the "shut down corners" look bad in the NFL, especially on 3rd and 7? Countless. He's improving and can be special if he keep his attitude towards "we" and away from "me". I still think he wouldn't be so exposed, or any of our secondary for that matter, if we can generate a consistent pass rush. We've been trying for 4 years to draft some O line disrupters.

Here is the problem Cali. Sherman has been drafting defensive linemen every year but so far he's missed on all of them. You can't get a pass rush from below average players.
 

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