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Aaron Rodgers: Mr. Irrelevant in fourth quarter

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  2. CheeseHead87

    CheeseHead87 Cheesehead

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    Actually, a pretty well written article. But the article itself mentioned some of the flaws in this argument. While I don't want to go into a whole rant, I'll touch on a couple things:

    1. Most of the losses in the 3-18 record come from either bad team play, or a little bit of bad "luck". It is hard to pin too many of those on Rodgers. Also, this is the NFL, the other team sometimes steps up in crunch time. Best example of that is the 2010 37-36 loss to the Steelers.

    2. While 3-18 is not impressive by any means, the article showed that some other established quarterbacks have similarily below-average records when it comes to fourth quarter comeback opportunities. I would like to see the numbers for every starter in the league, and some famous retired quarterbacks.

    3. Rodgers has proved that he comes through when it matters. I don't think anyone watching the fourth quarter of SB XLV would call Rodgers "Mr. Irrelevant".
     
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  3. milani

    milani Cheesehead

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    Very poor and distorted article. I lived in KC back then and followed the Chiefs as well as the Packers.
    The Chiefs lived on their special teams and defense and kicker Nick Lowry back in those days. They had to find ways to win games.
    Rodgers did struggle in his first year of takeover in 2008. We sputtered in crunch time that season and as a result we were 6-10. But ARod certainly got better after that. In 2009 he led us back against Pittsburgh in the 4th quarter only to have the game handed to the Steelers by our defense on the last play. He brought us back against the Cardinals in the desert in the post season when our defense could not stop anyone that day and still lost when scoring 45 points. In 2010 he tied the Dolphins the week after a concussion on a QB draw with 12 seconds left only to see our short handed defense let Chad Henne and Ricky Williams march through them in OT.
    Even though we did not trail in the SB ARod delivered the clutch blows in the 4th quarter when the Steelers had us on the ropes. Last season he marched us down in the final seconds to beat the Giants 38-35. Kenney never had that on his resume.
    Kenny rarely ever put his team in a strong position early in the game like Rodgers does. Someone else had to decide it. That is why Rodgers career will last a lot longer than Kenney's.
     
  4. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    The article points out bad luck and gives another number of ones where he is holding the ball last.

    I think the BIGGEST flaw in the article and something they missed is the coaching. Time and time again I have found myself upset with not only the play calling, but the clock management by MM in the final 2 minutes. I believe a game in 2009 against the bengals (maybe?) Rodgers was driving only to run out of time due to bad clock management.
     
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  5. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    No he didn't. He threw for more than 4,000 yards, 30 TD's and IIRC, single digit picks. A HUGE reason for the 6-10 record was the defense not being able to prevent the big play late in the game. I distinctly remember games against Carolina, Atlanta and Houston where we had a late 4th quarter lead, and our defense gave up big plays late in the game, which put them in position to win. Rodgers can't do much from the sidelines.
     
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  6. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    1 How often are we really behind in the 4th
    2 How far were we down in those games
    3 How many of those were early in Rodgers' career
    4 Never underestimate the defense trying to make the big stop
    5 As has been pointed out, Rodgers is still pretty young, lots of time to improve
     
  7. Cheesehead625

    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    Umm... what about the game against the Giants during the regular season last year?
     
  8. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    Didn't Flynn have this same issue two seasons ago? Can't recall if it was Det or NE when the offense stood around wasting time waiting for the call with about 20 seconds left.
     
  9. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Crap. Rodgers looses 4th quarter games. And now we have wasted an offseason upgrading the defense and it turns out it is all Rodgers fault.

    I usually like CHFF but this is what happens when you only look at numbers sans logic.
     
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  10. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    It was a game against New England I believe.

    Unless you watch the game nothing shows you how badly the clock has been managed in these games.
     
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  11. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Damn, I guess we should cut him. Glad we realized this now before we sign this scrub to another big money contract. How much of his salary are we going to be on the hook for? I hope his cap hit doesn't prevent us from signing Jamarcus Russel.
     
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  12. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Some good points were made but I find the basis of the article to be irrelevant in itself. I think we get lost in Aaron Rodgers's pure talent and we forget the fact that he is so young yet! He is only going to continue to improve at every level and that includes his play in the 4th quarter. We need not fault him for having a weakness in a seemingly flawless QB. He is human, give him time and the word "clutch" will be synonymous with Aaron Rodgers.
     
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  13. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I remember this discussion from back then and I will say what I said then. Often, the circumstances were far from giving Rodgers a reasonable chance to bring the team back. There is much to be considered when looking at comebacks.
    Do you need a TD or a FG to win or tie? Often they were down by 4 or more and needed a TD.
    How much time is left? Big difference in two minutes or less and say 2 or three minutes.
    How many timeouts are left?
    How far do they have to go?

    I recall the D repeatedly failing to hold teams from a late score and with less than 2 minutes to go Rodgers would have to come back out there with 80+ yds needed because the KO return teams sucked and one or no timeouts to get it done. What? You want miracles?

    Today you give this guy two plus minutes and a couple of timeouts along with the 2 minute warning and he will nail it more than any other QB out there. But if you ask him or any other QB to score a TD with say 1:50 on the clock and one time out and 80 yards it's probably not going to happen. A FG to win or tie? Sure, that might happen. If he did need a TD there though that's a game the defense totally blew and won't forget the entire season....and shouldn't.

    What counts as a failed comeback anyhow? If he's got one minute and 75 yards and it doesn't happen does that count? All I know is I remember him often up against the wall and he had played well enough not to be in that position. I remember that Bears game when we had 20 plus penalties and still had a chance when Jordy put the ball on the ground on the sidelines. Of course the failed comeback goes to Rodgers. Whatever.
     
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  14. peteralan71

    peteralan71 Cheesehead

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    What sticks out in my memory much more than Rodgers not making the play is somebody else making a mistake, whether it be a dropped ball, fumble, missed tackle(s), and SOMETIMES clock management. My only dispute of the clock management comment is that the QB has the full capability to take control of the last few minutes of the game and run it as he pleases. Look at Peyton Manning. If clock management is poorly orchestrated, not many people would look at the coach as making the mistake. Rodgers is looking more and more like Peyton, taking control of this offense. With control comes responsibility. The clock management errors will disappear as he continues his career, and that will be because of his football intelligence.
     
  15. P-E-Z

    P-E-Z Cheesehead

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    Could be the pass happy offense empties the gas tank by the last 3 minutes in the game.
     
  16. Packy

    Packy Cheesehead

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    Gee I guess Rodgers should just quit... Afterall, the statistics are the most important aspect of football... Isn't it?
     
  17. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Judging by some comments I am pretty sure some didn't read the articles ... And if they did they didn't comprehend them.
     
  18. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Can't be sarcasm, we're far above that
     
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  19. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    It looks like the same guy wrote the other article about admitting there is a problem. I don't think his points are really that valid because he isn't factoring in the doggone defense. I also think I know this guy from another board. If it is the same guy, he was one of the Favre loving fire TT guys on the other board. I remember him saying how he wrote articles for CHFF.

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
     
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  20. Murgen

    Murgen MechaPackzilla

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    I always seem to remember those close games being lost by the defense in the last few seconds rather than Rodgers not being able to be a Mr. Comeback. Not saying he didn't have opportunities for it. But Just how I remember it that the majority of times it was out of his control.
     
  21. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I finally got around to reading the linked article and was disappointed. Not because it is critical of Rodgers; although he’s a great QB of course he’s not perfect and there’s nothing wrong with anyone pointing that out. But I expect more analysis from a CHFF article than Kacsmar provided and IMO he didn’t hide his bias well at all. For example why in an article about Rodgers so-called failures in the fourth quarter does the author mention how lucky Rodgers was to wait for three years for his starting opportunity?

    His analysis is incomplete: He gives us the stats for Eli Manning and Romo and JaMarcus Russell but doesn’t tell us who leads currently or all-time nor does he give us a complete list of current QBs. He says Rodgers falls short of most of his contemporaries, but doesn’t tell us which contemporaries are close or why he doesn’t compare Rodgers to them rather than a QB who hasn’t played in 20+ years.

    Where are Rodgers’ 4th quarter stats? If he’s not “clutch” his 4th quarter QB rating, for example, should be significantly worse than his overall rating, shouldn’t it? In the most critical situation in the biggest game of his career Rodgers came up huge on third and ten with 6 minutes left in the Super Bowl. That was worth a mention and if the author isn’t talking about being clutch what exactly is he pointing out?

    Another indication of bias IMO is when the author says Kenney has a “rather crazy” number of lost comebacks (games in which the QB did his job in the 4th quarter but the team still lost). Since Kenney has 6 in 9 seasons and Rodgers has played 4 seasons as a starter aren’t Rodgers’ 4 lost comebacks a “crazier” number? Particularly compared to Favre’s long career – he had 9 according to this author.

    This quote is very revealing IMO. Rodgers is “punished” for the leading the most prolific offense in the league last season which seldom required a comeback. Or was he "bailed out" by last season's Packers defense?


    Ready aim misfire: To the degree this is a valid criticism, as ivo610 posted, it makes more sense for it to be aimed at McCarthy, not Rodgers – IMO another indication of bias. The failures of the defense, special teams and the entire offense – in other words of the entire team to comeback rest on the HC and his staff much more than it does on any individual player, even the most important one.

    As I said, I expect more from CHFF. This seems more like a hastily written post than an article written for publication. It’s shallow, incomplete, and biased IMO. If Kacsmar keeps this up, he'll be the irrelevant one.
     
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  22. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Kacsmear?
     
  23. Powarun

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

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    Could this also be because we don't have a running game to help wind the clock down in the 4th quarter, I remember seeing a lot of 3 and outs for years only because we were trying to keep the lead and McCarthy would run the ball, making A-Rod irrelevant, since I don't want him run blocking if he could help it. I also recall a lot of games with the opposing team making a comeback against us, since our defense was getting tired from all those 3 and outs.
     
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  24. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

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    These sort of issues don't come up with Matt Flynn.

    I am just saying.
     
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  25. GeeDogWarrior

    GeeDogWarrior 0 - 0

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    Sluggish Run Game for basically his entire Career starting. Awful to Average Olines...
    Mostly crap defenses....(except for 2010)
    Usually the youngest team in the league... crappy special teams his first 3 years.
    Only games I recall him "choking" were that Bucs game in 2009 and that Jags game in 2008.
     
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