Aaron Rodgers 2014 MVP conversation

[Carl]

This is more of an issue I have with the award overall. There's something inherently wrong with an award that supposedly looks at every player and yet only goes to a QB or RB. Does anyone actually think that no other position in the NFL has had the NFL's best player since 1986?

The award isn't for best player though, it's most valuable.

 

[ivo610]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/30/nfl-awards-mvp-rookie-coach/

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The award isn't for best player though, it's most valuable.

It always comes down to what does "valuable" mean...if we're talking value do you have to take salary into account? If so then Russell Wilson would be the easy choice. If you mean irrespective of salary which player has a bigger impact on the team, then QB is always going to win. If you say best player then it becomes a different thing.

Most seem to go with biggest impact on the team and, while I would argue that Watt's impact on the Texans was about on par with Rodgers for the Packers, that will pretty much always mean you chose a QB. Hence the reason I find the award so silly. The MVP is really the "Best QB Unless A RB Runs For 2,000 Yards" Award.

 

[ivo610]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...midable-challenger-b99417629z1-287181071.html

 

[Mondio]

I think if Watt's plays would have put them in the playoffs, he'd have a better shot. I think what he is doing is pretty great, and he's made some great plays, but they win some games he's just a good DE and they lose some games he's made exceptional plays in.

The Packers don't do crap if Rodgers doesn't play well.

 

[Sky King]

If a team were started from scratch and a GM could choose any player from any other current NFL roster, who would he be likely to pick, the top QB in his prime or the top defensive player in his prime? It works for MVP, too.

 

[ivo610]

If you want to read some sour grapes, check out a cowboys forum. They scream about qb rating and how romo beat teams Rodgers couldnt

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/sarcasm-lets-face-it-rodgers-should-be-the-nfl-mvp-this-year.311090/

 

[ivo610]

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/mvp-debate-no-wrong-answer-between-rodgers-watt/32667/

 

[PackerDNA]

If you want to read some sour grapes, check out a cowboys forum. They scream about qb rating and how romo beat teams Rodgers couldnt

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/sarcasm-lets-face-it-rodgers-should-be-the-nfl-mvp-this-year.311090/

Uhhh... they're not actually trying to say Romo is better than Rodgers, are they? Must be some good drugs down there.

 

[Sky King]

If you want to read some sour grapes, check out a cowboys forum. They scream about qb rating and how romo beat teams Rodgers couldnt

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/sarcasm-lets-face-it-rodgers-should-be-the-nfl-mvp-this-year.311090/

There is an element of truth to this. Rodgers couldn't beat the Cowboys last season because of his injury, although Flynn was able to beat them. Romo has been beating the Cowboys for many, many seasons.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There is an element of truth to this. Rodgers couldn't beat the Cowboys last season because of his injury, although Flynn was able to beat them. Romo has been beating the Cowboys for many, many seasons.

You can't ignore though that Rodgers has as many playoffs wins at their stadium as Romo.

 

[greenandgold]

Whatever, seems like MVP will go to somebody this year somehow associated with Wisconsin. Rogers plays here, Romo born here, and JJ played at UW.

 

[Sky King]

Today, Romo can make an MVP statement, same as past winners have done time and again. It will be interesting to see if he finally performs like an MVP in the clutch. Or, as Deion Sanders says, "Some players aren't made for the moment." Is he made for the moment? Thus far in his career, no.

 

[7thFloorRA]

The playoffs don't count towards the MVP. Dallas' o-line is the MVP of that team....not romo and not Murray. They both benefit from that line immensely.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I've already given Rodgers the award.
And Watt wasnt even sack leader. He should take his 6 gimick TDs and go make sure he locks up Defensive Player of the Year Award. Leave the MVP talk for the guys still playing.

 

[ivo610]

I've already given Rodgers the award.
And Watt wasnt even sack leader. He should take his 6 gimick TDs and go make sure he locks up Defensive Player of the Year Award. Leave the MVP talk for the guys still playing.

Whats gimicky about an 80 yard int return for a TD?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I've already given Rodgers the award.
And Watt wasnt even sack leader. He should take his 6 gimick TDs and go make sure he locks up Defensive Player of the Year Award. Leave the MVP talk for the guys still playing.

Yeah, cause sacks are the only stat that matters....that's like saying Matt Ryan threw for more yards than Rodgers so Ryan is better.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Whats gimicky about an 80 yard int return for a TD?

It's "gimmicky" because it strengthens Watt's case. Anything that's good for JJ Watt is not important. It's odd but I somehow feel like if a Packers' dlineman had one of the best seasons all-time for a defender then certain stats would suddenly be treated much differently.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Yeah, cause sacks are the only stat that matters....that's like saying Matt Ryan threw for more yards than Rodgers so Ryan is better.

Watch Panther MLB Luke Keukley or whatever. Who is still playing by the way... He is every bit as dominant as Watt. Only difference is the TE TDs Watt has, and the the sack total gives him the edge. Like I said. He should be lobying to get the DPOY , not trying to build an argument for MVP.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Watch Panther MLB Luke Keukley or whatever. Who is still playing by the way... He is every bit as dominant as Watt. Only difference is the TE TDs Watt has, and the the sack total gives him the edge. Like I said. He should be lobying to get the DPOY , not trying to build an argument for MVP.

No, no Kuechly is not as dominant. He had two more tackles than Levy, only 1 interception, 3 sacks and one fumble recovery. Kuechly only pressured the quarterback 16 times during the year (not his job, I know, he's a MLB) but, to give you an idea, Hightower pressured the QB 34 times, so more than twice as much. I can make a good argument for a bunch of defenders being just as good as Kuechly. There are very few two player combinations that I could say were as good as JJ Watt.

Also, you keep mentioning Watt's "gimmick" TEs like they're nothing. Do you realize that the Texans only threw 22 touchdown passes this year? It's not like you can just trot a big guy out there and he'll automatically catch TD passes. Also, he returned an interception for a TD and a fumble for a touchdown.

I'll mention it again, you can take any other TWO players and combine their numbers and they still wouldn't have pressured the QB as much as Watt did by himself. Watt plays on a defense in which he's the only decent player. Justin Houston plays alongside Tamba Hali (and Packers fans are well aware of how good he is) and Dontari Poe (the guy we all wish Raji could have been). Watt also had more tackles for loss than any other player in the league.

 

[Ceodore]

I think AR should be MVP, but wouldnt really have too much of a problem if it was Watt.

 

[AmishMafia]

Most Valuable Player. Rodgers has a big advantage by playing a more important position than JJ Watt. It should be Rodgers.

 

[HardRightEdge]

One player since the season went to 16 games has won MVP with a team winning less than 10 games. Barry Sanders. It does matter.

An MVP carries his team. Watt can't do that. A D/E can't do that.

And heck, Justin Houston had a comparable year and nobody gives a rat's **** about him.

The Watt vs. Houston question is interesting, even if being named first team All Pro is not exactly a "rat's ****".

Discounting Watt's offensive gimmicks, their headline numbers are pretty similar.

Watt: 78 tackles, 20.5 sacks, 4 tackles for loss, 10 passes defended, 4 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 1 INT (pick 6)
Houston: 68 tackles, 22.0 sacks, 6 tackles for loss, 5 passes defended, 4 forced fumbles, 0 blocked kicks, 0 INT

So why does everybody's eye test put Watt in a class by himself?

Here's an indicator: According to PFF, Watt logged an astounding 54 QB hits to Houston's 8. While "hurries" should rightfully be viewed with skepticism as to their impact (Watt 54 vs. Houston 56 according to PFF), the value of QB hits should not be in dispute.

Those Watt hits amount to a disruptive affect on nearly 10% of the opponents pass plays, a truly remarkable figure. That makes for a wide margin over Houston.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I've already given Rodgers the award.
And Watt wasnt even sack leader. He should take his 6 gimick TDs and go make sure he locks up Defensive Player of the Year Award. Leave the MVP talk for the guys still playing.

The number of sacks isn't the only and best way to measure a player's success. Watt has 32 pressures more than any other player in the league.

While I agree Rodgers should be named MVP Watt is a dominant player.

 

[ivo610]

The Watt vs. Houston question is interesting, even if being named first team All Pro is not exactly a "rat's ****".

Discounting Watt's offensive gimmicks, their headline numbers are pretty similar.

Watt: 78 tackles, 20.5 sacks, 4 tackles for loss, 10 passes defended, 4 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 1 INT (pick 6)
Houston: 68 tackles, 22.0 sacks, 6 tackles for loss, 5 passes defended, 4 forced fumbles, 0 blocked kicks, 0 INT

So why does everybody's eye test put Watt in a class by himself?

Here's an indicator: According to PFF, Watt logged an astounding 54 QB hits to Houston's 8. While "hurries" should rightfully be viewed with skepticism as to their impact (Watt 54 vs. Houston 56 according to PFF), the value of QB hits should not be in dispute.

Those Watt hits amount to a disruptive affect on nearly 10% of the opponents pass plays, a truly remarkable figure. That makes for a wide margin over Houston.

If you put weight into pffs grading, watt looks like superman out there according to their grading.