A tale of two GM's.

[HardRightEdge]

hold your breath without me putting anything in there please.

I thought you might want to clean up after ing the room. Suit yourself.

 

[Dan115]

I thought you might want to clean up after ing the room. Suit yourself.

don't hold your breath. I am still in bed . lazy morning here in Thailand.

 

[AKCheese]

Harrell is the pick I will never be able to fathom. That pick was pure lunacy, how can you burn a 1st round pick on a guy who basically sat out (injured) his senior year, and couldn't work out at the combine. That was an idiotic pick. Every year there are "potential First round picks" who play their way down to the 3rd 4th 5th round their senior year. How do you give a guy a total pass for his senior season and draft him in the first round when he's STILL NOT HEALTHY?!?!? Right now Geeen Bay has underachieved given the talent at QB. Actually RODGERS has under achieved (in big games) given his talent. TTs status as a GM is totally linked to RODGERS, since it's pretty clear that without him, Green Bay has been a fringe playoff team. Personally I think this year Green Bay is poised to be the best team in the NFC. They WERE the best team in the NFC last year....they BLEW IT against SEATTLE, they were good enough, they played well enough, but as a TEAM....they blew it. The team is largely intact, has specific areas where improvement is needed....that's not a bad situation

 

[Shanghai Pack]

Good one...Thank You....lolol
As any thinking Packer fan would say it...."The team can't be improved upon in any way.
But.....why in the Hell don't we win (or at least play in) The Super Bowl every year????,"

We don't win the Super Bowl every year because football games often come down to things that go beyond pure talent like luck and matchups and referee decisions and bounces of the ball and weather and wind gusts and injuries and a plethora of other things that no one can control. The fact in any given post-season there are 5-6 teams that might win the Super Bowl and how those breaks come down will determine who advances. I think this last post-season made that incredibly clear. Any good GM should have the mandate to insure that his team is one of those 5-6 that is in position and talented enough that it CAN win the Super Bowl and I feel that Thompson has done that in both the recent past, present (this upcoming season) and future. I really don't think you can ask for more.

 

[HardRightEdge]

don't hold your breath. I am still in bed . lazy morning here in Thailand.

Thailand? Been there, done that. I wouldn't brag about it.

Lovely people, though. As of ten years ago, they liked Americans, or at least their money. Nasty diseases though; I'm sure you're using a ******.

 

[sschind]

Free agency is over already?

Yup. It ended on Friday.

 

[Shanghai Pack]

Btw, related question to all the Thompson detractors, but you guys all do realize he is going to end up in the Hall of Fame himself, don't you?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Btw, related question to all the Thompson detractors, but you guys all do realize he is going to end up in the Hall of Fame himself, don't you?

Probably not. The list of front office guys in the Hall is a fairly short one.

 

[Shanghai Pack]

Probably not. The list of front office guys in the Hall is a fairly short one.

Probably not that they don't realize it (which I agree) or probably not that he won't make it (which I disagree)?

 

[sschind]

Green Bay has been trying to fix its defense forever. With 53 man rosters and a hard cap NOBODY is dominant on both sides of the ball. It's a balancing act. Packers have the offensive side figured out but the D certainly needs work. I think the NT situation will work itself out. A pass rush will make a young secondary play better and I think that's the plan there. What solution they come up with at ILB will be interesting. I'm not so sure ILB is "out of position" for Mathews at this point in his career, could be where he needs to finish up.

We could have let our offense fall to crap and not signed Cobb and Bulaga. Then we could have used that money to build a stronger defense. Everyone knows all we need on offense is Rodgers, Lacy and 9 other guys (and I'm not so sure some fans even think Lacy is all that important.)

 

[Dan115]

Thailand? Been there, done that. I wouldn't brag about it.

Lovely people, though. As of ten years ago, they liked Americans, or at least their money. Nasty diseases though; I'm sure you're using a ******.

LOL moved here in 2012-- I am 62 years old----LOL oh yes I am bragging. Never use a ******--- so far the youngest 27--schoolteacher in Korat, oldest 36 in BKK--- never took a ***** so far. All have normal jobs. 2 are married. One 31 and married is coming to meet me tomorrow.

 

[TJV]

TT is a top GM.

I agree. He has his faults but he's one of the best in the league.

Question for those who bristle at any negative discussion relating to TT, if the Pack only gets to 1 Super Bowl with Favre and ARod as his QBs, will you continue to consider TT to be unworthy of criticism? And if there is a point that the Pack's failure to reach the big game with ARod at QB that renders TT worthy of criticism can you let the rest of us know when that would begin?

I don't bristle at negative discussions of Thompson or anyone else. IMO no one is above criticism and I have criticized Thompson for not being more active in UFA, not necessarily big name UFAs, but the next tier. But as you can see in this thread, some lack the perspective of the first comment of yours I quoted, and it's that lack of perspective I disagree with.

By not answering my question about Thompson's liability for the loss to Seattle I'm guessing you don't fault Thompson's talent acquisition for not getting to the Super Bowl. BTW, your inference is Thompson has/is wasting Rodgers talent, but I wouldn't include Favre in the discussion as it relates to Thompson. Remember it was Favre who pissed threw away a chance to get to the Super Bowl. Again, Thompson provided enough talent to get to the big game in the 2007 season.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Probably not that they don't realize it (which I agree) or probably not that he won't make it (which I disagree)?

I mean the bar is high and he doesn't deserve it based on the body of work.

 

[HardRightEdge]

So many feared he would be injury prone.

I don't think that's the main reason. The league in general didn't like his mechanics and he got tagged with the "Cali QB" rap as being too laid back. As it turned out, the Cal coaches changed his mechanics from those preferred in the pro game; Rodgers had to revert to what he already know. And beneath the calm exterior is competitive fire, as we all know by now.

Thompson's two greatest accomplishments have been:

- seeing through the cliches and doing better research in drafting Rodgers

- not letting Favre drag the organization around by nose; it took no small amount of courage to do what needed to be done

 

[Shanghai Pack]

I mean the bar is high and he doesn't deserve it based on the body of work.

Ron Wolf is getting inducted this year, primarily off a 9 year run with the Packers where they won one Super Bowl, made another, and won a lot of games. The Packers were 92-52 in the regular season in his tenure. Ron was also instrumental in developing the late 70's Buccaneers who had a few good seasons.

But Thompson has a similar resume already imo. He was the main architect of the early 2000's Seattle team that went to the Super Bowl and got hosed by the refs. He's been with the Packers for 10 full seasons now and has a 98-61-1 record during that time (which includes the 4-12 first season of the team he inherited and the 6-10 season transitioning to Rodgers). The team has won a Super Bowl and been to a few NFC Championships which they could have won with a few more breaks. He's locked in most of the core to be in a position to rattle off 10 wins for the next 3-4 years at least, and hopefully, in the process, win another Super Bowl. I think his body already is enough, but once you project what it will likely be in another 5 years, it's absolutely a Hall of Fame resume for a GM/Contributor.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hawk had to cover a guy or Rush the passer on that fake. He didn't have a chance. Can't do both.

If you read about the play, the Seawahks coaches ran the fake due to Jones, not Hawk too.

Hawk played that fake FG absolutely terrible. He has to stay with the receiver as long as Ryan hasn´t moved past the LOS. On that play he would have had another 10 yards after Ryan not being able to throw the ball anymore to prevent him from getting a first down or 19 yards to stop him from running in for a TD. And I´m not even talking about House possibly catching Ryan from behind before the first down.

Interesting that NE and Seattle are not refusing to acquire veteran players despite making the Super Bowl.

While you´re right about the Patroits and Seahawks bringing in UFA to improve their team you ignore the players they´ve lost over the last few days.

The Patriots have lost Darrell Revis, Shane Vereen, Brandon Browner, Akeem Ayers and possibly Vince Wilfork while the Seahawks had to give up Max Unger to trade for Jimmy Graham and let Byron Maxwell, O´Brien Schofield, James Carpenter and Malcolm Smith walk away in free agency.

Overall, Thompson does a great job as the Packers GM. Just take a look at the offense which led the league in scoring last season with all of their starters returning for 2015 and every single one of them under contract through at least 2016. It´s amazing that he has been able to keep the Packers in a great cap situation while holding on to all that talent.

I would like him to use free agency or trades more often to acquire defensive talent, but I´m not talking about going after superstars but some second- or third-tier additions at positions of needs.

 

[DaveRoller]

I agree. He has his faults but he's one of the best in the league. I don't bristle at negative discussions of Thompson or anyone else. IMO no one is above criticism and I have criticized Thompson for not being more active in UFA, not necessarily big name UFAs, but the next tier. But as you can see in this thread, some lack the perspective of the first comment of yours I quoted, and it's that lack of perspective I disagree with.

By not answering my question about Thompson's liability for the loss to Seattle I'm guessing you don't fault Thompson's talent acquisition for not getting to the Super Bowl. BTW, your inference is Thompson has/is wasting Rodgers talent, but I wouldn't include Favre in the discussion as it relates to Thompson. Remember it was Favre who pissed threw away a chance to get to the Super Bowl. Again, Thompson provided enough talent to get to the big game in the 2007 season.

Then we are in agreement when I criticize TT's failure to take acquire veterans in free agency (and via trade) to fill roster holes.

The mistake some who criticize TT make is they refuse to acknowledge his attributes (as I recounted above). Conversely, any criticism of TT seems to trigger irrational counterattacks from his biggest fans.

As far as the Championship game, the Pack should have won and the blame for the loss falls primarily on the coaches and then the players. However, it was TT who last offseason ignored the inside linebacker position and Brad Jones and AJ Hawk were huge liabilities all year (causing the Pack to lose home field advantage??) and Hawk was critical to the Seahawks success late in the game. Hence, in that fairly minor way, TT was culpable for the outcome.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...fies-thompson-schneider-differences/70310858/

I think this goes to prove that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Both men, with different approaches, have been successful. Schneider, for now, is enjoying the luxury of having his quarterback on his rookie contract. Eventually he'll have to pay him, and that means less cap room for everyone else....

 

[tynimiller]

You act like a GM should not have any busts ever. Let's fire TT and find a GM who never picks a bust since they exist...

Also, if you get a star in Cobb 2nd round, it's really not a big deal if the first rounder is a bust. League wide success rate is 1/3 for picks. If you use Cobb and Sherrod as an example, you're actually pointing out a success rate of 50%. Using such a small sample size doesn't help your case there.

A FREAKING MEN!!

 

[Shawnsta3]

Ron Wolf is getting inducted this year, primarily off a 9 year run with the Packers where they won one Super Bowl, made another, and won a lot of games. The Packers were 92-52 in the regular season in his tenure. Ron was also instrumental in developing the late 70's Buccaneers who had a few good seasons.

But Thompson has a similar resume already imo. He was the main architect of the early 2000's Seattle team that went to the Super Bowl and got hosed by the refs. He's been with the Packers for 10 full seasons now and has a 98-61-1 record during that time (which includes the 4-12 first season of the team he inherited and the 6-10 season transitioning to Rodgers). The team has won a Super Bowl and been to a few NFC Championships which they could have won with a few more breaks. He's locked in most of the core to be in a position to rattle off 10 wins for the next 3-4 years at least, and hopefully, in the process, win another Super Bowl. I think his body already is enough, but once you project what it will likely be in another 5 years, it's absolutely a Hall of Fame resume for a GM/Contributor.

The one thing Thompson had going for him that Wolf didn't is what he inherited. I'm sure other more experienced members will be able to discuss this topic better than I can, but as I remember Wolf inherited an organization that had one division championship, two playoff births and five winning seasons in the previous twenty four years. That combined with the small market, one could conceivably assume that the present day Packers would not be around; or at least as we currently view them if he had not come and turn things around when he did.

While Thompson didn't inherit the prettiest picture either due to some of Sherman's questionable GM duties; he was at least given a team that had reasonable regular season success with a HOF quarterback and a sustainable organizational plan in process. Thompson wouldn't make the Hall of Fame as it currently stands but I see no reason why he couldn't eventually make it if the success under MM and AR continues and he picks up another Lombardi or two on the way.

 

[DaveRoller]

[QUOTE="While you´re right about the Patroits and Seahawks bringing in UFA to improve their team you ignore the players they´ve lost over the last few days.

The Patriots have lost Darrell Revis, Shane Vereen, Brandon Browner, Akeem Ayers and possibly Vince Wilfork while the Seahawks had to give up Max Unger to trade for Jimmy Graham and let Byron Maxwell, O´Brien Schofield, James Carpenter and Malcolm Smith walk away in free agency.[/QUOTE]

Packers have lost Tramon (a starting CB), backup CB House, Brad Jones & AJ Hawk (both of whom were week 1 starters and in Hawk's case played meaningful time at ILBer all year), 4th WR Boykin, 3rd RB Harris, and 3rd TE Bostick.

Now one could argue B. Jones, Hawk, Boykin, Harris and Bostick all stunk and their subtractions really are additions to the roster, but the fact remains that GB has lost plenty of players from its roster and still is the only NFL team not to add an NFL player from another team.

The Seahawks, Patriots and other 31 NLF teams all operate differently than TT does in GB, that just reality.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Packers have lost Tramon (a starting CB), backup CB House, Brad Jones & AJ Hawk (both of whom were week 1 starters and in Hawk's case played meaningful time at ILBer all year), 4th WR Boykin, 3rd RB Harris, and 3rd TE Bostick.

Now one could argue B. Jones, Hawk, Boykin, Harris and Bostick all stunk and their subtractions really are additions to the roster, but the fact remains that GB has lost plenty of players from its roster and still is the only NFL team not to add an NFL player from another team.

The Seahawks, Patriots and other 31 NLF teams all operate differently than TT does in GB, that just reality.

The Packers lost a single guy (either Williams or House) who would have started in 2015.

Both teams that played in the Super Bowl, especially the Patriots, lost way more quality in free agency.

 

[PackerDNA]

The Packers lost a single guy (either Williams or House) who would have started in 2015.

Both teams that played in the Super Bowl, especially the Patriots, lost way more quality in free agency.

I disagree. Both teams didn't lose all that much, except for Revis. Who, along with Browner, the Pats chose not to excercise their options on.
As for the 'Hawks, Carpenter is a terrible pass blocker, M. Smith didn't play much, and they added an impact player in Graham. Anyone think that these two organizations don't have a plan in place?

 

[Mondio]

you think GB doesn't have a plan? Do you think this is Ted Thompson's first go round?

and Seattle lost a safety, a pretty good OLB and yes they gained an electric TE. They also gave up their draft pick and a pro bowl center. About the only guy on that oline worth a ****, and he's gone too.

You're not paying attention if you don't think the Pats have lost a lot this offseason. Of course they "chose" not to. They had to, or they'd be over the cap anyway. WIlfork, Vereen, Browner, Revis,

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I disagree. Both teams didn't lose all that much, except for Revis. Who, along with Browner, the Pats chose not to excercise their options on.
As for the 'Hawks, Carpenter is a terrible pass blocker, M. Smith didn't play much, and they added an impact player in Graham. Anyone think that these two organizations don't have a plan in place?

The Patriots lost three of their defensive starters in the Super Bowl (including both corners) and a versatile offensive player in Vereen.

The Seahawks lost one of the starters on the Legion of Boom and their best OL.

IMO there's no doubt both of them
lost more quality than the Packers.