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#52

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by weeds, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I'm coming to be of the opinion that Matthews isn't the "guy" that I thought he was before he got the big contract.

    Perhaps he's just doing the old "Ken Ruettgers" thing ... you know, the veterans looking for escape routes out of working during camp and all that stuff, but, I mean really...this is getting a little ridiculous.

    Could he be holding himself out due to his disdain (regardless what he says about it publicly) for playing inside? He has reminded reporters that he "is afterall, a pass rusher".... story goes that he took himself out of the NFC Championship game last year -- essentially because he was 'tired'...

    Coincidence that his teammates chose Julius Peppers to captain during the NFC Championship game and NOT one of the supposed leaders of that defense and arguably the best defensive player the Pack has? Perhaps THE most talented?

    Can't speak for anyone else, but a guy in a veteran leadership position should be teaching these young guys toughness - mental and physical toughness -- NFL toughness, I'm not inferring that he's anything less than tough because I'd be damn polite to the guy if I met him public...but...particularly as a linebacker.... has he gone Hollywood? Prima donna???

    Where the f**k is Kevin Greene when you need him???

    I'll point and laugh at the first guy who says "It's training camp. Veterans get nothing out of training camp."
     
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  2. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Its training camp. Veterans get nothing out of training camp.
     
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  3. vince

    vince Cheesehead

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    Those are tough - and fair - questions. Hopefully he can put a full healthy year together but it doesn't seem to be trending that way right from the start once again. If healthy there's no telling what he and the defense can do. If he continues to miss time with elbows and groins though, it might be time to re-assess that deal. At 29, his speed, health and recovery time isn't going to get any better as the injuries and years continue to pile up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  4. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I point at thee, and scoff. :)
     
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  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    same feeling about favre?
     
  6. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Yeah...but you have to give the wiener king one thing ... he was always available and certainly wouldn't have taken himself out of the NFC Championship game - we're still waiting for some sort of explanation on that one, you know?

    You might be mistaking me for a Brett fan...but I'm not a Brett hater neither. He's just another former player -- it's not like he's Ron Wolf or anything.
     
  7. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    In the words of the late great Jimmy McGinnty, "...tons and tons of heart...."
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I wasnt assuming you were a fan or not, I just saw a comparable situation in training camp
     
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  9. vince

    vince Cheesehead

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    One explanation that makes sense is that he got his bell rung and needed time but didn't want to go through concussion protocol and likely be out of the game entirely. Sitting out at that point, along with the sidestepping of subsequent questioning is consistent with that.

    He obviously can't admit to failing to report that type of injury because he wanted to get back in the game, but it's also the one injury where, short of being out entirely, taking some time to clear your head before returning is understandable.

    The "looking out for #1" comments also seem consistent with that scenario. It would have been dumb of him to hide a concussion (if he did), but it would have been dumber for him to completely ignore any symptoms he might have been experiencing to stay in the game at that point.

    One thing is pretty clear. We're not going to know what really happened, and Matthews is willing to take shots to his character over clarifying the situation. That too seems consistent with the concussion theory.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
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  10. SoonerPack

    SoonerPack Cheesehead

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    ALL and I mean ALL I care about is him being ready to answer the bell come Week 1 vs. the Bears. Clay has done a lot of great things for our team and I am not sure where the animosity towards him comes from? The play he made on the Mendenhall fumble in the Super Bowl was something out of Hollywood. Before taking the field Kevin Greene pulls him to the side and says, "it is time..." The audio shows how in tune 52 was with the gameplan as he keeps yelling for Pickett to "spill it, spill it!" The ball is snapped and rest is history. This is just one of many impact plays Clay has contributed throughout his time in G&G yet for whatever reason (hair, attitide?) he gets crushed by many-a-Pack fan. I think he has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt. Again, whatever the reason is all I care about is him being healthy and ready to rock come Week 1. Like it or not he is a major piece to the championship puzzle and our D looks considerably different without him on the field. To each their own but I am giving 52 the benefit of the doubt on this one...

    G P G!
     
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  11. Joe Nor Cal Packer

    Joe Nor Cal Packer Cheesehead

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    I patiently read all the posts hoping someone would say what you did, so thanks for saving me the time.

    Not all great players want or aspire to leadership positions, outside the stellar examples they create through their play. So Peppers being named a captain and not CMIII probably bothered the fan base more than Matthews. I'll admit I'm puzzled about him being on the sidelines during the NFCCG. But I have no doubt about his heart and passion for the game.

    We are fortunate he is lining up on our side of the ball.
     
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  12. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's curious you would criticize Matthews for his camp work ethic and praise Favre in comparison. I can't think of another Packer player who had more disdain for off-season work than Favre. Have you forgotten Favre's no-shows at OTAs or his being late to training camp? We don't even have to get into issues of the playbook or film study.

    Let's be honest...your critique has nothing to do with Matthews sitting out now with a minor injury. That is standard operating procedure around the league with core players this time of the year. Your issue is with the closing minutes of the Seattle game.

    Since you cannot crawl inside Matthews' head and take measurements of physical and mental exhaustion, then the critique remains one of speculation, as you already admitted, since you do not feel you've received "some sort of explanation". If the defense collapsed in his absence, then you might consider casting your out-of-focus critical eye toward those who were actually on the field, or toward the coaching from the sidelines or the booth as the case may be.

    Nobody in this game plays with a higher revving motor, takes fewer plays off, or leaves more on the field than Matthews. There are few edge rushers who would even agree to make the move to the unglamorous inside, however reluctantly, and fewer still who would play as well in the process.

    As a side note, you may have overlooked the comments from some of the young guys regarding Matthews sharing tips on technique during this camp. That's certainly nothing Favre was willing to do with Rodgers.

    My thoughts on this general subject are as follows:

    (1) When it comes to supremely talented and productive players, it is best to be highly selective in one's criticism. Focusing on a single failure, such as sitting out during the late stages of the Seattle game, if it even qualifies as a failure which remains a matter of speculation, amounts to biting the hand that feeds you.

    (2) I regard the rah-rah bullsh*t as just that. You mentioned the always vociferous and animated Kevin Greene. Where did that get us? Lackluster OLB play during his tenure...except for Matthews. If a guy is always yelling and jumping around, after awhile it just gets tuned out. Examples are set on the field in the money games...if others don't draw energy from that, that's on them. Or if he happens not to be on the field, and other players can't draw energy from their internal resources, that's on them as well.

    As for his contract, was it a bit excessive? Perhaps. But it comes down to the question, "Who else ya got?" First of all, premier 3-4 OLBs in their prime years don't come on the market very often. And even if one happened to appear, Thompson can't be lauded for eschewing high priced free agents who present risks on the one hand while criticizing him for overpaying a bit for a highly valuable known quantity. It is the same logic behind the QB contracts signed around the league this off-season...I repeat..."who else ya got"?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
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  13. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I think it’s too early to make this determination about Matthews. Is he “looking for escape routes out of working during camp”? If you believe that you have to believe he (and the Packers) are lying about his knee and now elbow injuries. I don’t have any reason to believe that. I think it’s more likely McCarthy is being careful with one of his star players.

    “Could he be holding himself out due to his disdain (regardless what he says about it publicly) for playing inside?” He could be, but that would be foolish of him. Not only was the D significantly better after mid-season, Clay had 8.5 of his 11 sacks in the second half of the season. Most were from the outside but he can be much more dynamic playing both:
    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/all-eyes-will-be-on-clay-matthews-b99518277z1-307775571.html

    This is unfair unless you’re calling him a liar. This is what he told Demovski:
    http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-p.../clay-matthews-i-dont-worry-about-the-critics
    In other interviews he also mentioned his ribs. Do I think the way the Packers played for the first 56 minutes of that game and the lead they had at the time played a part in Matthews remaining on the sideline? Yes. But I also believe he is telling the truth about being banged up and he certainly wasn’t the only one who was affected by their play and the lead.

    I’d rather he not be sitting out any practices so I’m not going post vets get nothing out of TC. More than most vets, Matthews needs snaps inside with Barrington. I’m more concerned with Matthews’ durability than his toughness and that worry has a lot to do with how Matthews plays the game which exudes hustle and toughness. "I'm not as well-versed as I am at the outside linebacker position, being able to kick back outside at a moment's notice," Matthews said. "So, it's really important for me to really grasp this opportunity and really take it and run with it. I think ever since last year I continue to grow into a stronger player on the inside." http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-inside-linebacker-b99548152z1-320359611.html
     
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  14. SoonerPack

    SoonerPack Cheesehead

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    Exactly. We all have our own idea of how one SHOULD act in certain circumstances. They SHOULD do this or they SHOULD do that. Sometimes a athlete may be so smooth he is looked upon as lazy or uninterested when in reality they just make the game look different because of their skill level. Would I love 52 to be in every practice? Yes.
    Would I like him to care about being named captain? Yes. With all that said so long as he is giving his all when he is on the field I can live with him not living up to my/your expectations. Every person is wired differently and just because they don't live up to our expectations doesn't mean they are not in 100% or going through the motions. More times than not he shows up and leaves it all on the field. He is a premier player at his position and I am thrilled to have him on our squad.
     
  15. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    mathews can do what everhe wants imo. the wear on his body must be huge. we couch jockeys need to let him decide, so he can hit the 19 years his uncle did, and 20 his daddy did in the nfl.
    i did give him a little fece earlier, but mainly because i was bored:) he is a future hall of famer. when you reach that level, you get a few benefits i would say.
     
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  16. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    The funny thing is, the Packers would have been much better off had Favre taken himself out of a few of those championship games.


    As far as Claymaker goes - he has played with a lot of heart and passion. It will take a lot more evidence than missing some training camp before I begin to question his dedication to the Packers.
     
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  17. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I was very happy with what Matthews gave us at ILB last season.

    The absence near the end of the NFCCG is another topic in itself, but over the entire body of work I see no reason that Matthews shouldn't have success in his new, more versatile role.

    And no, I'm not concerned about the cautious approach they're taking with him in camp.
     
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  18. JK64

    JK64 Cheesehead

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    I am sitting on the fence on this one. I agree with those who say he has earned our respect and should be given the benefit of a doubt. CMIII is still our best player on defense.

    On the other hand CMIII seems to have durability issues. By taking himself out during crunch time during the Seattle game makes me wonder about his durability and how much longer he can be an effective player. I doubt he would have stayed out if Kevin Greene was still around.
     
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  19. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    I'm going to go completely against the grain here...

    Assuming we can trust Matthews that he was legitimately hurt/tired/concussed and not simply "taking it easy because the game was already won," I say he did the right thing by taking himself out.

    It's easy to be proud of people who can play through whatever ails them. However, I can admire a man just as much, especially a professional athlete, who has the humility to say, "No. In my current state, I am a hinderance to my team," and takes a step back.
     
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  20. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Good responses guys. Good stuff...thanks...I needed some different perspectives here.

    Hard Right... It's not solely the absence from the NFC Championship game. Truly, it is the combination of all those things...and I wasn't praising Favre ... Jesus H guys cut.me.some slack...hahaha...I just said he always showed up to play - and he did. Man... :unsure:
     
  21. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Man, it always surprises me that people feel the need to take random shots at one of the best QBs in NFL history. Yeah, he screwed up at times but the positive plays VASTLY outnumber the negatives.
     
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  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I can forgive a lot. For instance, I could care less what uniform Favre was wearing after leaving Green Bay. What I don't forgive is not showing up to work on time and holding the franchise hostage as an annual event. That's not a random shot.

    Holding a guy responsible for a 5 minute defensive collapse because he was not on the field is a random shot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
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  23. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    As long as he continues to get around 10 sacks a season, I wont mind.
     
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    What things? And I repeat...you criticize Matthews for sitting out with minor injuries and praise Favre when the latter preferred to ride around on his tractor when it was time to show up for OTAs and the start of training camp.

    If actions speak louder than words, I can't think of the player who exhibited the belief that, "It's training camp. Veterans get nothing out of training camp," more than Favre.
     
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  25. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Our defense completely turned around when Clay moved inside. He was also very good on the outside even if the stats didn't show it. He was worth the contract last season.
     
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