2022 Training Camp Thread

Heyjoe4

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I expect him to get in some reps with the 1's, be the first guy out there with the 2's, not be relegated to when "the rest" go in. From what they said the majority of his reps are with "the rest", and none with the 1's or 2's basically.
If winfree is getting looks with the 1's, I'd expect Amari to be as well.
If Winfree is getting reps with the 1s they have a coaching problem. First I've heard that Winfree is with the 1s and Rodgers is with the last group. Not saying it's not true. Just surprised.
 
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tynimiller

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If Winfree is getting reps with the 1s they have a coaching problem. First I've heard that Winfree is with the 1s and Rodgers is with the last group. Not saying it's not true. Just surprised.

Was first couple days of camp so could have already swung to very few now. Spofford on Packers Unscripted believe was where I heard it
 

captainWIMM

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Actually, I agree with Demovsky's logic. All summer Watkins has been on my mind as the WR that could potentially get cut. Yes the Packers need veteran leadership in the WR room and I would love nothing more than to see Sammy be successful in Green Bay. He once was a great WR. However, his injury history is a problem and he's already been injured here. I think that if I were the GM of the Packers, I would be weighing the cost of a 1yr veteran with proven credentials but an injury risk versus a young slot WR and potential returner in Rodgers that has upwards potential. If those two trend lines come close to crossing paths, I think that you'll see Gutekunst go with youth and potential versus a veteran with considerable skill yet questionable availability.

MLF disagreed with Demovsky's take back in June. I think that's all there is to know.

Again, I think unproven is not proper terminology. Underperforming? Inconsistent? Maybe.

Is Big Dog “unproven”? No
Is Tonyan “unproven” No
There’s half of your group there.
Is Deguara Unproven? That’s maybe debatable at best. Deguara succumbed to an season ending ACL injury during week 5 of the 2020 regular season, so at that point, after 4 complete contests, I’d agree he was unproven at the time he had his ACL injury, yes. Not anymore.

Deguara started slow on PUP and obviously made a complete recovery Once Tonyan went down mid season, Deguara really got his opportunities as a featured TE here. The result? On a decent sample size he performed admirably. In just 34% of the O snaps, he puts up 25/33 245/2TD’s 75.8% catch ratio with nearly 200 of his yards coming YAC. (9.8 per catch). That’s essentially his entry level 1st season. With 70% (double) snap counts he’s pacing nicely.
50/66 490/4TD’s (pace).

As a comparison.
In Tonyans breakout 3rd season he was 52/59 586/11TD’s 88.1% catch%.

Now. That said. Tyler Davis is largely “unproven” coming into his 3rd season (2nd in the Packers system)
2021-4/5 35/0TD 80% catch%

In Marcedes first 2 seasons combined?
50/78 517/3TD 64.1 catch%
Divided by 2= About Deguara.
It’s that 3rd-4th year you see what you’ve got at TE, but the initial signs point favorably for Deguara.

That’s a pretty normal “proven:unproven” mix if you ask me, but leaning proven.

The only group I can really argue “unproven” altogether is at OL. Mainly because that group survives on continuity as a unit. You can’t have 1 standout Davante at OL. That’s a 5 chain link unit with Our TE’s latching on also. Only as good as the weakest link.

Well, I will stop using the phrase unproven as you seem to solely concentrate on semantics once reading it.

In my opinion the Packers lack talent at tight end. Period.

Marcedes is getting up there in age and while he still excels at blocking he is mostly a non-factor as a receiver.

Tonyan is coming off an ACL injury and even before suffering it wasn't anywhere close to putting up numbers like in 2020.

Deguara's numbers were decent in the second half of the season although a large part of that came on a 62-yard receiving TD I could have scored on based on the blocking.

There's no way of knowing how Davis will develop at this point.


I mean 6th at best is where he is to start the year given his role and still raw inexperience?

Lazard, Cobb and Watkins are clear 1-3 to start camp. Then it was clear GB yields to their past guys and Winfree was getting snaps with the ones. That means at the highest Amari could even logically be is 5th...toss in Doubs studding it up and Watson when back it makes sense.

While it makes sense that Amari wasn't higher on the depth chart entering camp it should work as evidence that he needs to make plays in camp and preseason games to make the roster. He's not a lock.

If Winfree is getting reps with the 1s they have a coaching problem. First I've heard that Winfree is with the 1s and Rodgers is with the last group. Not saying it's not true. Just surprised.

Winfree being ahead of Amari on the depth chart should tell you he has outperformed him so far.

Actually there would be something wrong with the coaching staff if they would make those decision based on Amari having been a third round pick last year.
 

Heyjoe4

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MLF disagreed with Demovsky's take back in June. I think that's all there is to know.



Well, I will stop using the phrase unproven as you seem to solely concentrate on semantics once reading it.

In my opinion the Packers lack talent at tight end. Period.

Marcedes is getting up there in age and while he still excels at blocking he is mostly a non-factor as a receiver.

Tonyan is coming off an ACL injury and even before suffering it wasn't anywhere close to putting up numbers like in 2020.

Deguara's numbers were decent in the second half of the season although a large part of that came on a 62-yard receiving TD I could have scored on based on the blocking.

There's no way of knowing how Davis will develop at this point.





While it makes sense that Amari wasn't higher on the depth chart entering camp it should work as evidence that he needs to make plays in camp and preseason games to make the roster. He's not a lock.



Winfree being ahead of Amari on the depth chart should tell you he has outperformed him so far.

Actually there would be something wrong with the coaching staff if they would make those decision based on Amari having been a third round pick last year.
My comment about the coaches was sarcastic. If Winfree is playing better then that's where he belongs, with the 1s. I'm just surprised, especially after the positive things Gluten had to say about Rodgers and that Winfree barely played last year. If it were true I'm just guessing it would be more prominent in the press, and it hasn't been. Maybe Winfree had a great off season. He's not exactly a household name when it comes to the Packers.
 
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In my opinion the Packers lack talent at tight end. Period.
You might be surprised I actually agree with this.

However, in Keeping in mind, we didn’t seem to have an issue in 2020 as the #1 scoring Offense. Our TE consisted of :
Marcedes Lewis, Robert Tonyan, Jace Sternberger and Dominic Dafney.

The point I’m making is that has you similarly evaluated that group 5 months earlier than the last NFC game, you could’ve said they were also lacking talent. However I have this group at or above that group. We’ve traded Stern and Dafney for Deguara and Davis. I’d take the latter group of given a choice.

You could pose an argument that Tonyan is injured. That’s fine, but you can’t guarantee me Big Bob won’t play or that he’ll play poorly any better than I can give you a guarantee he will succeed.

This is the year that you’d expect growth from Deguara. Into that
300-400/5TD range.

Imo. Tonyans floor if he’s back late is also 250/3TD+ That’s pretty much sniffing 2020 production as a sum of parts.

Marcedes will get some contributions he’s mr reliable.

The X factor is Tyler Davis. Not to mention he’s really a 4th TE, so his involvement is limited either way.
So we’re really not in some poor TE situation is all I’m saying. Would I have like to get a F TE? Absolutely. But the chance of high production in year 1 is low.

OL? Ok I’d agree there.
Although we’ve historically done well getting guys to speed at OL.
Add to that we’ve thrown substantial resources into that group. How many OL draft picks over the last few years? You just don’t miss on every draft pick it’s not statistically possible
 
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Heyjoe4

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You might be surprised I actually agree with this.

However, in Keeping in mind, we didn’t seem to have an issue in 2020 as the #1 scoring Offense. Our TE consisted of :
Marcedes Lewis, Robert Tonyan, Jace Sternberger and Dominic Dafney.

The point I’m making is that has you similarly evaluated that group 5 months earlier than the last NFC game, you could’ve said they were also lacking talent. However I have this group at or above that group. We’ve traded Stern and Dafney for Deguara and Davis. I’d take the latter group of given a choice.

You could pose an argument that Tonyan is injured. That’s fine, but you can’t guarantee me Big Bill won’t play or that he’ll play poorly any better than I can give you a guarantee he will succeed.

This is the year that you’d expect growth from Deguara. Into that
300-400/5TD range.

Imo. Tonyans floor if he’s back late is also 250/3TD+ That’s pretty much sniffing 2020 production as a sum of parts.

Marcedes will get some contributions he’s mr reliable.

The X factor is Tyler Davis. Not to mention he’s really a 4th TE, so his involvement is limited either way.
So we’re really not in some poor TE situation is all I’m saying. Would I have like to get a F TE? Absolutely. But the chance of high production in year 1 is low.

OL? Ok I’d agree there.
Although we’ve historically done well getting guys to speed at OL.
Add to that we’ve thrown substantial resources into that group. How many OL draft picks over the last few years? You just don’t miss on every draft pick it’s not statistically possible
Who is "Big Bill"?
 

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MLF disagreed with Demovsky's take back in June. I think that's all there is to know.

Never believe what coaches say about players (when it's positive)...only believe the coaches' actions. I doubt Watkins is a cut but NOT because MLF was unwilling to publicly say that Watkins is a cut option in June (not really the best motivational tactic).
 

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I was very happy when we signed Watkins. For his ability to play. Can't imagine he would be cut.
 

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I was very happy when we signed Watkins. For his ability to play. Can't imagine he would be cut.
same here but I want the ones who make the team to do so because they are the best players not because of their draft position or the the fact that they were a FA signing. If 6 other guys outperform Watkins in the PS its bye bye Sammy and I won't be too sad about it. Disappointed he couldn't beat out somebody else maybe but not really sad as long as it means the other guys played better or showed n more in practice.
 
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same here but I want the ones who make the team to do so because they are the best players not because of their draft position or the the fact that they were a FA signing. If 6 other guys outperform Watkins in the PS its bye bye Sammy and I won't be too sad about it. Disappointed he couldn't beat out somebody else maybe but not really sad as long as it means the other guys played better or showed n more in practice.
There’s very little to zero chance (past a major injury) that Sammy doesn’t make the 53 man.
 
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captainWIMM

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My comment about the coaches was sarcastic. If Winfree is playing better then that's where he belongs, with the 1s. I'm just surprised, especially after the positive things Gluten had to say about Rodgers and that Winfree barely played last year. If it were true I'm just guessing it would be more prominent in the press, and it hasn't been. Maybe Winfree had a great off season. He's not exactly a household name when it comes to the Packers.

Winfree made some plays early in camp which probably resulted in him receiving some snaps with the 1s. On the other hand I haven't heard a lot about Amari making a positive impression on the field.

We will learn a lot about the depth chart at receiver during preseason games though.

You might be surprised I actually agree with this.

However, in Keeping in mind, we didn’t seem to have an issue in 2020 as the #1 scoring Offense. Our TE consisted of :
Marcedes Lewis, Robert Tonyan, Jace Sternberger and Dominic Dafney.

The point I’m making is that has you similarly evaluated that group 5 months earlier than the last NFC game, you could’ve said they were also lacking talent. However I have this group at or above that group. We’ve traded Stern and Dafney for Deguara and Davis. I’d take the latter group of given a choice.

You could pose an argument that Tonyan is injured. That’s fine, but you can’t guarantee me Big Bill won’t play or that he’ll play poorly any better than I can give you a guarantee he will succeed.

This is the year that you’d expect growth from Deguara. Into that
300-400/5TD range.

Imo. Tonyans floor if he’s back late is also 250/3TD+ That’s pretty much sniffing 2020 production as a sum of parts.

Marcedes will get some contributions he’s mr reliable.

The X factor is Tyler Davis. Not to mention he’s really a 4th TE, so his involvement is limited either way.
So we’re really not in some poor TE situation is all I’m saying. Would I have like to get a F TE? Absolutely. But the chance of high production in year 1 is low.

OL? Ok I’d agree there.
Although we’ve historically done well getting guys to speed at OL.
Add to that we’ve thrown substantial resources into that group. How many OL draft picks over the last few years? You just don’t miss on every draft pick it’s not statistically possible

I know you don't want to hear about it but the Packers had an elite receiver in 2020 who was a huge reason the team finished as the best scoring team in the league that year.

Someone has to pick up the slack for Adams not being around anymore but unfortunately I don't believe the tight end group will provide a lot of help achieving that.

The offensive line is another question mark as long as Bakhtiari and Jenkins won't be able to play.

Overall, that has me concerned about the outlook for the offense entering this season.

Never believe what coaches say about players (when it's positive)...only believe the coaches' actions. I doubt Watkins is a cut but NOT because MLF was unwilling to publicly say that Watkins is a cut option in June (not really the best motivational tactic).

Most of the time I agree with that. But MLF going out of his way to mention Watkins will be a big part of the passing offense makes me believe he's a lock to make the roster.
 

PikeBadger

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If Winfree is getting reps with the 1s they have a coaching problem. First I've heard that Winfree is with the 1s and Rodgers is with the last group. Not saying it's not true. Just surprised.
What??? Please explain why Winfree has possibly not improved enough in every aspect of his duties to not be getting time with the 1st unit. How many practices and team meetings are you attending?
 

PikeBadger

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MLF disagreed with Demovsky's take back in June. I think that's all there is to know.



Well, I will stop using the phrase unproven as you seem to solely concentrate on semantics once reading it.

In my opinion the Packers lack talent at tight end. Period.

Marcedes is getting up there in age and while he still excels at blocking he is mostly a non-factor as a receiver.

Tonyan is coming off an ACL injury and even before suffering it wasn't anywhere close to putting up numbers like in 2020.

Deguara's numbers were decent in the second half of the season although a large part of that came on a 62-yard receiving TD I could have scored on based on the blocking.

There's no way of knowing how Davis will develop at this point.





While it makes sense that Amari wasn't higher on the depth chart entering camp it should work as evidence that he needs to make plays in camp and preseason games to make the roster. He's not a lock.



Winfree being ahead of Amari on the depth chart should tell you he has outperformed him so far.

Actually there would be something wrong with the coaching staff if they would make those decision based on Amari having been a third round pick last year.
Words have meaning. Written text is all we have to go on here as body language can't be determined.

Sarcasm needs to be noted within to be understood (That's not for you so much, Capt.) you generally do a good job of noting sarcasm with emoji's
 
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I know you don't want to hear about it but the Packers had an elite receiver in 2020 who was a huge reason the team finished as the best scoring team in the league that year.

Someone has to pick up the slack for Adams not being around anymore but unfortunately I don't believe the tight end group will provide a lot of help achieving that.
It’s reasonable to say that this TE group may not pick up slack of missing Davante. Although the FA options to add a TE were somewhat substandard from what I recall?
I do however think the “slack” from this WR group to last year is inside that 300-400 yards and 3-4 TD area. Our pair of RB’s can erase the bulk of that difference.

This next part is purely conjecture, working with relatively limited info on the new group and I know how you like conjecture :)! Very early in, this is the best looking group of young rookie WR’s we’ve drafted and Christian Watson hasn’t even put on his display yet. That catch from Samori in the Endzone last night was non defendable. He backed it up with what I’d call “a difficult adjustment level catch” slight under thrown by Love. Those 3 TD catches in scrimmage clearly showed me why he led the Big 10 in YPC. Toure has a built in Satellite beacon ball tracker for a nose. Those 2 TD were impressive catches even for an average NFL veteran Wideout. The 3rd long TD was pedestrian level lost coverage by our D. Love put her in the bread basket. Toure got himself a practice Lambeau leap bonus play.
 
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Heyjoe4

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What??? Please explain why Winfree has possibly not improved enough in every aspect of his duties to not be getting time with the 1st unit. How many practices and team meetings are you attending?
Relax. I'm just surprised to hear he's doing so well. Last year he did....... next to nothing. He was on the PS in 2020. If you're saying he's vastly improved - certainly enough to get practice time with the first team, I expect he has a chance to be a top 3 rated WR coming into the season. Thanks for the update. I'll check back in a month and in the meantime certainly watch Winfree's ascendancy amongst the Packers WR corps.
 
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captainWIMM

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It’s reasonable to say that this TE group may not pick up slack of missing Davante. Although the FA options to add a TE were somewhat substandard from what I recall?

True, there weren't any tight ends available in free agency who would have significantly improved the talent level of the group currently on the roster.
 
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tynimiller

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True, there weren't any tight ends available in free agency who would have significantly improved the talent level of the group currently on the roster.

One could argue we "re" signed the only one with the possibly that ability in Tonyan. I liked the idea of Kyle Rudolph coming here but only if there were doubts to how soon Tonyan will be back.
 
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One could argue we "re" signed the only one with the possibly that ability in Tonyan. I liked the idea of Kyle Rudolph coming here but only if there were doubts to how soon Tonyan will be back.
Yes Tonyan was our best option (aside from the eventual rumors of a trade deal) I was never super impressed with Kyle. He was pretty average overall with a couple of good seasons. Like you said, He would’ve been at least a veteran presence, but counterproductive to growing our incumbent options.
 
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captainWIMM

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Like you said, He would’ve been at least a veteran presence, but counterproductive to growing our incumbent options.

I truly believe that a lot of fans put way too much stock into a veteran limiting the growth of young players.

First of all, a veteran presence can be very helpful in the development of young players.

In addition, the Packers need to concentrate on winning now. If a veteran presents a significantly better option over other players on the roster it should be a no-brainer to make a reasonable offer. This is not a team in rebuilding mode.
 
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tynimiller

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Quietly yet consistently Toure has been doing things....then Family Night happens and he puts up two TDs in the team activities, and a TD in 1v1s

I touted him as a favorite Day 3 guy I'd liked even when he was at Montana before transferring to Nebraska...but I honestly expected a little more of a struggle for him. The question isn't whether he is doing enough for a PS spot, its if he is doing enough to make the Packers keep him on the 53!!!

Wyatt at times is just making the OL look stupid....he is quite raw and the luxury of having Clark, Lowry and Reed (Slaton too) on this roster is going to make him special I think - allow growth and at times they'll be able to tell him to pin the ears and be special on passing situations here and there. He is no where the player Clark is, so don't take this wrong but in the first half second after the snap, I think he is better than Clark or as good. Dude is so quick.
 

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Quietly yet consistently Toure has been doing things....then Family Night happens and he puts up two TDs in the team activities, and a TD in 1v1s

I touted him as a favorite Day 3 guy I'd liked even when he was at Montana before transferring to Nebraska...but I honestly expected a little more of a struggle for him. The question isn't whether he is doing enough for a PS spot, its if he is doing enough to make the Packers keep him on the 53!!!

Wyatt at times is just making the OL look stupid....he is quite raw and the luxury of having Clark, Lowry and Reed (Slaton too) on this roster is going to make him special I think - allow growth and at times they'll be able to tell him to pin the ears and be special on passing situations here and there. He is no where the player Clark is, so don't take this wrong but in the first half second after the snap, I think he is better than Clark or as good. Dude is so quick.

I like the Wyatt pick; he should be a very nice addition to a dline that features only one above-average player. My only worry is that he's old for a rookie (24); he should be dominating (if he's going to be an elite player) much faster than the guys who are 21 or 22 years old.
 
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tynimiller

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I like the Wyatt pick; he should be a very nice addition to a dline that features only one above-average player. My only worry is that he's old for a rookie (24); he should be dominating (if he's going to be an elite player) much faster than the guys who are 21 or 22 years old.

Yeah that was the real only "knock" to him and is why if I remember right @Dantés wasn't a fan of burning a pick on him until he came off that some once we had two firsts to mess around with but still. In the end it may work to our (GB) favor in that when his rookie deal is done he will be very near 30 and we for sure will know absolutely where he is ceiling wise from a physical stance.
 
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I truly believe that a lot of fans put way too much stock into a veteran limiting the growth of young players.

First of all, a veteran presence can be very helpful in the development of young players.

In addition, the Packers need to concentrate on winning now. If a veteran presents a significantly better option over other players on the roster it should be a no-brainer to make a reasonable offer. This is not a team in rebuilding mode.
Actually, I would’ve like to grab Jared Cook as that option, but maybe he’s done or asking too much $ idk. There wasn’t much immediate help in the draft at TE without slightly reaching as it was a relatively dull draft at TE overall imo.

To that point you made above I agree. That said, is Kyle Rudolph the answer? I mean he was one of the better of choices out there to bring in this offseason. 3-4 years ago maybe. I don’t like his trajectory (although Brady could bring him out if a nosedive) I actually believe Deguara production is in that similar neighborhood this season if he grows even slightly. But in general yes, I agree with your generic point in a “win now” season. Also raising the bar at TE would cushion some of the questions at Receiver. For me the current WR room isn’t as much IF as it is WHEN they will click.

One last point. We shouldn’t be shocked to see Gute pull out 1 final move before trade deadline. He has the ability, resources and several options to work a trade deal for going that Avenue. Something tells me he’s holding 3 Queens and an Ace high. He’s going to let the game play itself and simultaneously cover up his stack of black chips Under his unbuttoned sleeve. In the opposite hand, his cards are smidge closer to his chest than usual and notice he’s not looked at his cards one time since the initial peek.:cool: Gute came out of the gate showing moderate aggressiveness in acquiring outside help. I don’t think he’s going to let a Championship slip through his finger tips if he sees an area of concern. The best surprises are the ones worth waiting for and often happen a ways down the River.
 
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captainWIMM

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Actually, I would’ve like to grab Jared Cook as that option, but maybe he’s done or asking too much $ idk. There wasn’t much immediate help in the draft at TE without slightly reaching as it was a relatively dull draft at TE overall imo.

To that point you made above I agree. That said, is Kyle Rudolph the answer? I mean he was one of the better of choices out there to bring in this offseason. 3-4 years ago maybe. I don’t like his trajectory (although Brady could bring him out if a nosedive) I actually believe Deguara production is in that similar neighborhood this season if he grows even slightly. But in general yes, I agree with your generic point in a “win now” season. Also raising the bar at TE would cushion some of the questions at Receiver. For me the current WR room isn’t as much IF as it is WHEN they will click.

My post above was rather a general observation and not regarding the tight end situation this offseason. As mentioned before I agree there wasn't a veteran available at the position who would have significantly improved the talent level on the roster.
 

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