1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

2017. Peppers or no Peppers?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Eli Haugen, May 14, 2016.

  1. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,530
    Ratings:
    +255
    I dont know how you all feel. I been on the look out for Peppers replacment. But lets look at the options here.

    1. Peppers retires, and we fill his spot in house with Perry or Datone Jones.... A solid option IMO.
    2. Peppers retires, and we go back to not having that monster OLB in the equasion. Basicly go back to what it was like before Ted went and got Peppers. Scratch the Jones experiment. Draft a solid , do all OLB high and plug him in.
    3. An option I havnt given much thought. Resign Peppers for a couple years, and dont change a thing. I read once that he thinks he could play til 40... No major injuries in his career... If he decides he is doing it, and I havent seen a drop yet. I dont see why not try and see if he can play through 18'.
    4. Along those lines of thinking. a more reasonable approach might be to play him part time as a specialist. Cut the pay in half, and cut the time in half. Keep him fresh for when we need him. This is my favorite option. Its stockpiling tallent IMO. Keeping the potency of the rotation very high.

    How do you all think this is going to pan out next year?
     
  2. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,102
    Ratings:
    +516
    As with any player's contract year, it's all about "what have you done for me lately"
    If Peppers has an up year in 2016 (over his average) it shows his play is not in decline and he will be a known asset and I think we sign him to a 1 yr deal.
    If his play notably declines (which is not probable) I think we will move on with a younger option.
     
  3. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,792
    Ratings:
    +2,175
    I think it's a Catch-22 with Peppers right now. If he doesn't play well, you may as well let him walk. If he plays well, we won't be able to afford him another year. Just too many other upcoming holes to fill and some questionable contracts this offseason have left us without much flexibility beyond what we can already plan for.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. RicFlairoftheNFL

    RicFlairoftheNFL Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    71
    Ratings:
    +9
    Peppers was great in 2014, stepped back a tiny bit in 2015, let's see how he does this year. If he steps back and Fackrell can play we're fine without Jones/Neal. If Fackrell can't play we have to draft an OLB as an emergency in this situation.

    IF Peppers is great again or at least improves in 2016 you stick with him in 2017 and give Fackrell some more time to marinate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Bagadeez04

    Bagadeez04 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    412
    Ratings:
    +147
    Not sure Fackrell is the guy long term, maybe provides some depth. I'm hoping either Jones, Perry or Eliot has a good year where we would feel good about them taking over. I dont think Thompson can resign Peppers due to his age and the lack of cap room.

    This may be another position group, along with o line, that goes from strength to weakness after this season. Getting tougher and tougher to strengthen these positions along with inside lb and tight end.
     
  6. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +325
    There will be more "tweeners" like Bullard, Kaufusi, Nassib, & Tapper who are bigger (6'-3+, 270 lbs+) available in rounds 2-4 next year, so I don't think TT is worried... besides, he can always sign a couple in free agency ;) (sarcasm alert - don't rip me for TT's lack of action).
     
  7. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,525
    Ratings:
    +1,293
    And TT will pass in all of them and draft Some guy a lot of people never even heard of.
     
  8. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,650
    Ratings:
    +6,609
    Taking a look at the Packers vap situation entering next offseason I can't imagine the team re-signing him.

    Thompson better be worried about replacing a future Hall of Famer, especially with limited depth at the position and Perry, Datone Jones and McCray set to become free agents as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +325
    Unless any of them make "a jump" their production is easily replaceable.
    Perry - over past 4 yrs played in 46 games - 99 total tackles, 12.5 sacks, 4 passed defensed, 5 forced fumbles.
    Jones - over past 3 yrs played in 44 games - 51 total tackles, 8 sacks, 5 passes defensed, 1 Int, 0 FF.
    McCray (Denv) - 2 yrs. played in 24 games - 21 total tackles, 1.5 sacks, 1 pass defensed, 1 forced fumble.

    I understand there will be a depth-drain at OLB when those 3 & Peppers are UFA's... but I've got to believe J. Elliott (RFA '17) will be tendered, Fackrell will have a year of strength/system training and a few other UDFA's & a draft choice or 2 will be ready to excel. The 3 guys above & Pepper's combined 2016 cap space is $18.63Mil, so the cap will benefit from their departure and their roster spots taken by low-paid youngsters. Looks like a win to me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,650
    Ratings:
    +6,609
    I truly hope Thompson has a better plan than to replace Peppers, Perry and even Datone Jones, who is at his best rushing the passer, with Elliott, Fackrell and some unknown youngsters.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +325
    Besides being #1 draft picks why do you think so highly of these guys?
    Frank Zombo w/ Packers - 25 games played, 56 total tackles, 5 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 1 Int, 2 forced fumbles.
    Brad Jones w/Packers - 76 games played, 258 total tackles, 10 sacks, 1 pass defensed, 2 forced fumbles.

    These 2 guys were allowed to walk and were replaced... and they had better production than all 3 (not including the aging Peppers) guys who you are worried about losing. Take away their #1 pick status and they're just guys.
     
  12. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,650
    Ratings:
    +6,609
    Well, you can't take a look at the Packers situation at outside linebacker next offseason without including Peppers. Currently I wouldn't feel comfortable with either Elliott, Fackrell or any other youngster starting and no veteran depth at the position.

    BTW Perry and Datone haven't lived up to their draft status but are for sure better players than Zombo and Brad Jones and offer much needed depth.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,761
    Ratings:
    +663
    No real argument with the categorization of Peppers/Perry/Jones, but if you're going to show how easy it is to replace people, I think you'd do better than Zombo and Jones.

    Frank, after filling in wonderfully during the Cinderella/Perfect Storm SB run, was around for two more years, playing in 12 games, one started, 18 total tackles, one sack, zero passes defensed/INTs/forced fumbles.

    Brad's major claim to fame is battling AJ Hawk for worst TT contract. His last year, and the one after which he was replaced, he was only in 13 games, started one, totaled 18 tackles, one pass defensed, no other stats.

    I could have replaced either of them without anyone noticing much of a dropoff.
     
  14. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +325
    Exactly, and both guys had better production (stats-wise) in Caper's system than Perry & Jones, IMHO. This thread is "Peppers or no Peppers"... Perry & Jones aren't adequate replacements for Peppers unless they really step-up in '16.

    At this point in time, jettison Perry & Jones, save $7Mil in cap. Re-sign Peppers for 1 year at (hopefully) less than $10Mil and have an OLB corp. of: CM3, Peppers, Elliott (RFA tendered), Fackrell and a 2-4th round draft pick who's 6'-4"+, 280 lbs. + and a few UDFA's with high-revving motors (chips on their shoulders).
     
  15. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,650
    Ratings:
    +6,609
    I agree that Perry and Datone Jones won't be able to replace Peppers next offseason. Unfortunately neither Elliott, Fackrell, a second to fourth round pick or an undrafted fre agent will be.

    That's why Thompson hopefully has a better plan as the team won't have the cap space to re-sign the future Hall of Famer.
     
  16. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +325
    With no cap space to spend on a FA OLB (which won't happen anyway) or re-signing Peppers there aren't too many options but to coach-up the young, cheap guys.

    Doubt it'll happen but I'd love for MM to bring back Kevin Greene, who wants back into the NFL coaching circle now that his son is in college. Greene in Elliott & Fackrell's (as well as Perry & Jones') ears constantly would get them up to speed quickly, IMHO.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,650
    Ratings:
    +6,609
    That's why outside linebacker most likely will become the Packers most pressing need by the time of next year's draft. Most likely Thompson will have enough cap space to either re-sign Perry or Datone though.
     
  18. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,530
    Ratings:
    +255
    So we resign Peppers, and the need for a OLB, all but disapears.... We could let Perry, Jones, and the other FAs go, and just keep rookies. As long as we have Peppers for a buffer IMO. Even if he is just a part timer those last couple years. If anything, it buys us time. If we arent ready to pay Perry or Jones to be the man..... We will need a little time. Or risk a major transition in a year where the rest of the team is looking superbowl ready.
     
  19. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,697
    Ratings:
    +849
    Kinda more worried about the 2016 season
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,650
    Ratings:
    +6,609
    Unfortunately the Packers most likely won´t have enough cap space to re-sign Peppers. In addition only having rookies as backups won´t cut it at outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense.
     
  21. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +325
    TT & MM aren't afraid to play young guys, even at OLB. 2009 CM3 replaced Poppinga after the 4th game as a starter. 2010 both OLB's were 2nd year guys (CM3 & Brad Jones). 2012 Nick Perry was a rookie and started opposite CM3. That entire stretch, though, there was a solid DL inside and in front of these guys (Raji, Pickett, Jenkins) and veteran ILB's (Hawk, Barnett, Bishop).
    http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...arting-lineups-through-the-years-2009-to-2015

    I think a bigger question mark is "flux" at all 3 areas of the D... newcomer(s) at DL (Clark, Lowry), ILB (Martinez) and OLB (Fackrell) in '16 and '17. It's not just OLB that is changing or has new blood... it's everywhere.
     
  22. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,650
    Ratings:
    +6,609
    I would be fine with the Packers starting an early round draft pick at outside linebacker in 2017. It´s insane to fill the entire depth chart at the position with unproven players though.
     
  23. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,530
    Ratings:
    +255
    I read that he wants to play... So IMO if he wants to play and play for GB , he will have to accept he is on the down swing, and his final contract should be more along the lines of what Perry is making, rather than what he is currently making. If he wants the 10mil/yr still, then he has to go...
     
  24. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,650
    Ratings:
    +6,609
    The Packers could have a hard time affording a $5 million deal for Peppers next offseason as well.
     
  25. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,530
    Ratings:
    +255
    we have to keep at least one of our 3, right? I assume between Perry, Jones, and Peppers, we have our future starter in 2017? Maybe its Elliot? Could we give him a raise, which is in our budget, and trust he can produce as a starter?

    If Perry gets 5 mil on a prove it deal...... And he proves it....... He could be closer to 10mil/yr I bet. Being a 1st rounder and all... When you figure in we have our LT looking to get a huge payday, I think that prices Perry out of town, even if he is the best option...

    If Peppers wants to play past 2016. Plays great in 2016. and still wants 10mil/yr......... Then he is priced out of town too...IMO

    Datone Jones.... I see him as more of a specialist, than Peppers is. As in he can not do what Peppers does as a whole. But he can do some of it.... Thats not very valuable to me. And unless he proves he can do more from the position, I dont see us giving him a large mid-sized contract along with trusting him to start....

    Elliot might be the answer? Give the undrafted rookie a big pay raise, and he still fits the budget. He has very good pass rush ability, IMO. But can he stay healthy? All considered, he might be the answer.....And then add rookies for depth.
     

Share This Page