2016 Adjusted Games Lost

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree that it would have been close to impossible to acquire a suitable replacement for Shields but Thompson certainly should have been able to add a cornerback more talented than Gunter and the other JAGs at the position.

I would take it one step further. Given what Thompson hasn't done (acquire a #1 CB) in the offseason, I really don't think he felt there was a need to improve the position after Shields went down, nor does he now. Had TT gone out and signed one of the top FA CB's, that would have told me he finally perceived a need. I don't consider losing Hyde and signing House as any kind of big upgrade to the secondary. By his inactions to this point, one has to conclude that TT feels that he already has a #1 CB on his team.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well we've been through all this before but after week 1 no one knew what Shields status was and I'd be very interested to learn just exactly who is gonna be willing to put their season in jeopardy on September 15 by trading away their #1 CB for draft picks.

Everyone aside of the people within the Packers front office was aware that Shields was most likely done for good after he suffered another concussion in Jacksonville.

Once again, Pike, it would have been tough to acquire a #1 cornerback during the season although not impossible closer to the trade deadline with teams out of playoff contention possibly willing to get draft picks in return.

There's no doubt a CB more talented than Gunter would have been available though.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

By his inactions to this point, one has to conclude that TT feels that he already has a #1 CB on his team.

True, and it might end up costing the Packers the chance for another Super Bowl and possibly Thompson his job a year from now.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well we've been through all this before but after week 1 no one knew what Shields status was and I'd be very interested to learn just exactly who is gonna be willing to put their season in jeopardy on September 15 by trading away their #1 CB for draft picks.

I for one didn't think there was an instant perceived need to replace Shields the day after he went down, but the need started to become very apparent by the Detroit game and beyond. This left plenty of time for TT to explore other options. Shields was placed on IR about 2 weeks before the trade deadline, so you can't use the excuse of "we were hoping to get Shields back." While I don't think finding a trade partner would have been easy, nor do I think we would have secured another teams #1 CB, there had to be better options than guys that began the season on the depth chart as a #4 on down to our practice squad.

People keep saying "there were no options to improve" or "how do you know TT didn't try?". There are always options and with the way TT has dealt with the position during free agency, when there are plenty of options, leads me to believe this is yet another case of TT believing he can address a need with his own guys and wasn't looking for other options outside of his own roster.

 

[PikeBadger]

Everyone aside of the people within the Packers front office was aware that Shields was most likely done for good after he suffered another concussion in Jacksonville.

Once again, Pike, it would have been tough to acquire a #1 cornerback during the season although not impossible closer to the trade deadline with teams out of playoff contention possibly willing to get draft picks in return.

There's no doubt a CB more talented than Gunter would have been available though.

I think your medical assessment is incorrect unless you have inside access to the team's medical staff.

Once again Wimm, we have no idea what transpired inside 1265 Lombardi closer to the trade deadline in regards to trade negotiations and asking prices. We also don't know what the training staff knew about the various injured players.

You're once again portraying your factually unsupported opinions and suppositions here as absolute truths.

The only absolute truth is, we don't have the information available to claim any of our opinions are absolute fact.

 

[PikeBadger]

I for one didn't think there was an instant perceived need to replace Shields the day after he went down, but the need started to become very apparent by the Detroit game and beyond. This left plenty of time for TT to explore other options. Shields was placed on IR about 2 weeks before the trade deadline, so you can't use the excuse of "we were hoping to get Shields back." While I don't think finding a trade partner would have been easy, nor do I think we would have secured another teams #1 CB, there had to be better options than guys that began the season on the depth chart as a #4 on down to our practice squad.

People keep saying "there were no options to improve" or "how do you know TT didn't try?". There are always options and with the way TT has dealt with the position during free agency, when there are plenty of options, leads me to believe this is yet another case of TT believing he can address a need with his own guys and wasn't looking for other options outside of his own roster.

Reasonable opinions.

Not sure if we'll ever hear about how these things were viewed on the inside

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think your medical assessment is incorrect unless you have inside access to the team's medical staff.

Once again Wimm, we have no idea what transpired inside 1265 Lombardi closer to the trade deadline in regards to trade negotiations and asking prices. We also don't know what the training staff knew about the various injured players.

You're once again portraying your factually unsupported opinions and suppositions here as absolute truths.

The only absolute truth is, we don't have the information available to claim any of our opinions are absolute fact.

The only absolute truth is that the cornerbacks performed terribly during the 2016 season and that Thompson did nothing to improve the position during the season.

It seems that you're fine with the general manager possibly having tried to upgrade a position of need while that doesn't cut it for me. He's getting paid a shitload of money to address those holes on the roster in a timely fashion and I expect him to make moves to get it done.

Taking a look at what happened with Shields over the past few months it seems I was pretty accurate with my assessment after week 1 of last season.

 

[Mavster]

Since injuries were apparently the main contributing factor to the poor defensive play we witnessed last season. I'd like to hear what everyone's view on the current state of the Packers defense is then. Do you guys like the roster on that side or what?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Reasonable opinions.

Not sure if we'll ever hear about how these things were viewed on the inside

No, we rarely do hear the full story from the Packers. But sometimes you have to draw conclusions based on not what is done, but what isn't done. Too many times over the last several years, we have seen TT take this stance of "I got this covered from within". He isn't telling us that in words, but through his actions or inactions he is. While I think TT has a good eye for talent, I think he has become way to reliant on this eye always being correct and has become somewhat blind to the fact that it's ok to be wrong on your assessment and move on.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Since injuries were apparently the main contributing favor to the poor defensive play we witnessed last season. I'd like to hear what everyone's view on the current state of the Packers defense is then. Do you guys like the roster on that side or what?

I honestly don't know if you are joking or not?

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Personally I am tired of the injury excuses for the lack of success. Way I see it the team TT fielded was barely the best in the NFC north, certainly not the best in the NFC. AR once again carried this team to the playoffs just to get blown out by a superior team. Fellas it's called LOFT.... Lack Of F****** Talent.

 

[PackAttack12]

Personally I am tired of the injury excuses for the lack of success. Way I see it the team TT fielded was barely the best in the NFC north, certainly not the best in the NFC. AR once again carried this team to the playoffs just to get blown out by a superior team. Fellas it's called LOFT.... Lack Of F****** Talent.

That's no way to talk about your football team, Mike. You are a highly successful coach, after all. Figure it out.

 

[Mavster]

I honestly don't know if you are joking or not?

What joke? I see quiet a few posters on this forum that essentially blame injuries for every single bad performance.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What joke? I see quiet a few posters on this forum that essentially blame injuries for every single bad performance.

Which was why your statement was confusing and I asked you to clarify. Were you mocking those people or are you one who is convinced that the poor play of the 2016 defense can solely be attributed to injuries?

Reread what you wrote, maybe I am the only one who is confused by its intention.

Since injuries were apparently the main contributing factor to the poor defensive play we witnessed last season. I'd like to hear what everyone's view on the current state of the Packers defense is then. Do you guys like the roster on that side or what?

 

[PackerDNA]

I think your medical assessment is incorrect unless you have inside access to the team's medical staff.

Once again Wimm, we have no idea what transpired inside 1265 Lombardi closer to the trade deadline in regards to trade negotiations and asking prices. We also don't know what the training staff knew about the various injured players.

You're once again portraying your factually unsupported opinions and suppositions here as absolute truths.

The only absolute truth is, we don't have the information available to claim any of our opinions are absolute fact.

Come on. Every time one of TT's disciples gets called on something, you drop into the vague, fuzzy world of "you don't know". There are things that can be figured out without having to have someone explain it to you word by word- like figuring that a guy on his umpteenth concussion in 2 or 3 years was done, and that you needed to address the problem aggressively, which Oz Thompson failed to do utterly and completely.

 

[PackerDNA]

True, and it might end up costing the Packers the chance for another Super Bowl and possibly Thompson his job a year from now.

Agree,Cap. Except for him getting fired. The God of 1265 is untouchable.

 

[beehive555]

Didn't look to much into it besides overall record. Last season there were 12 games out of the 19 total (playoffs included) that Rollins, Randall and Gunter all played together. Those 12 games the Packers were 10-2. The 7 games that at least one and sometimes 2 of them were out the team went 2-5. As mentioned I didn't dig too deep to look at the opponents passing stats. Just shows some of the success the team had as a whole when all 3 of Gunter, Randall and Rollins played.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Didn't look to much into it besides overall record. Last season there were 12 games out of the 19 total (playoffs included) that Rollins, Randall and Gunter all played together. Those 12 games the Packers were 10-2. The 7 games that at least one and sometimes 2 of them were out the team went 2-5. As mentioned I didn't dig too deep to look at the opponents passing stats. Just shows some of the success the team had as a whole when all 3 of Gunter, Randall and Rollins played.

While it is an interesting stat and maybe something to look at further, my "knee jerk reaction" and gut would say that it doesn't tell the whole story of why the Packers won each of those games, nor really is it a stat that points to any of those 3 guys being all that good (collectively or individually). If I said the Packers were 10-2 when Mason Crosby didn't miss a field goal (made up stat), that really isn't a complete picture of Crosby the player.

 

[beehive555]

While it is an interesting stat and maybe something to look at further, my "knee jerk reaction" and gut would say that it doesn't tell the whole story of why the Packers won each of those games, nor really is it a stat that points to any of those 3 guys being all that good (collectively or individually). If I said the Packers were 10-2 when Mason Crosby didn't miss a field goal (made up stat), that really isn't a complete picture of Crosby the player.

Totally agree that it doesn't tell the whole story. May have to dig deeper into it just to see.

 

[beehive555]

While it is an interesting stat and maybe something to look at further, my "knee jerk reaction" and gut would say that it doesn't tell the whole story of why the Packers won each of those games, nor really is it a stat that points to any of those 3 guys being all that good (collectively or individually). If I said the Packers were 10-2 when Mason Crosby didn't miss a field goal (made up stat), that really isn't a complete picture of Crosby the player.

Yep looked into, secondary was still terrible in those games. 313 passing yards p/game, 94.9 QB Rating. Was just a coincidence.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yep looked into, secondary was still terrible in those games. 313 passing yards p/game, 94.9 QB Rating. Was just a coincidence.

While the record is interesting taking a look at the passer rating allowed by Randall, Rollins and Gunter it's not surprising the pass defense still struggled with all of them on the field.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

While the record is interesting taking a look at the passer rating allowed by Randall, Rollins and Gunter it's not surprising the pass defense still struggled with all of them on the field.

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As always, good "stuff" with that post. I knew the #'s were bad, but when you see it in black and white (and green) laid out, it just has to make people wonder what the hell TT is thinking? I would be a bit more optimistic if the Stat years were flipped.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would be a bit more optimistic if the Stat years were flipped.

Yeah, that would make me feel way more comfortable about the cornerback position as well.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah, that would make me feel way more comfortable about the cornerback position as well.

I guess we forced into assuming that TT is banking on House, health and undevelopment (regression back to 2015)?

"A Healthy House of Undevelopment"

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I guess we forced into assuming that TT is banking on House, health and undevelopment (regression back to 2015)?

"A Healthy House of Undevelopment"

It for sure seems that way. Obviously I don't agree with that approach.