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2012 QBs

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by PackersRS, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Because it's all about perspective. When you compare their play (LSU) against pro-prospects, it is horrible. But you are right, should've been more specific.

    Gabbert is afraid of the rush. He'll never be good. I don't know how evaluators didn't see it. He is afraid to get hit, he never sets his foot when facing pressure. He has that Rob Johnson attitude. Gabbert would be a great flag football QB.

    I don't like gimmick offenses but Cam Newton is proving that not all gimmick QBs will fail in the NFL.

    But it's that much harder to tell if a gimmick QB can be successful because they don't go through progressions. A lot of times teams just gamble on one, because he has arm strenght/mobility/etc... A lot of those coaches are too cocky, they think they can teach the guy how to play in their system.
     
  2. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    An even funnier event would be for him to pull an Eli Manning/John Elway and refuse to play for the team that drafts him.
     
  3. PackersDraft

    PackersDraft Draftnik

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    Do you think Robert Griffin III will declare this year? Seems like he might want to stay another year because this year's QB class is loaded and he said he wants to be a lawyer.
     
  4. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Depends on what "officials" will tell him about his draft status, but this is the only year he has played well enough to be recognized as a promising prospect. A lot of his numbers are a result of the system they run. But then again, he makes a lot of good decisions and with his mobility, that is very attractive to a lot of NFL teams. I kind of see (sorry if I'm being racist here but for me it is a good analogy) a McNabb in him... But I haven't watched enough of his games to make a serious conclusion one way of another...
     
  5. tstej

    tstej Cheesehead

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    First off he plays in the same system Kevin Kolb played at in Houston. 2nd of he is not your typical run first quarterback he looks to throw first throw second run 3rd and when he does run its not Tebow speed its track star speed. 3rd when I evualate a college quarterback throws like bubble screens mean nothing so I mainly look at deep throws and intermediate throws.RG3's deep accuracy is every bit as good or better than any qb in the nation including Luck. He has to work some on his intermediate throws but he has improved in his throwing each and every year.

    I think he will receive a first round grade in which I think will make him declare. Not to mention he will lose by far his best wr in Kendall Wright. As somebody has mentioned before he wants to be a lawyer so he is a pretty smart guy as well. If he enters and I'm the Colts I wouldn't automatically punch in Luck's name just yet.
     
  6. PackersDraft

    PackersDraft Draftnik

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    Woah, Woah. That's a pretty big statement. Well not really, but with the hype Luck has been getting it sure seems like it. The QB class this year is just ridiculous. There could potentially be 4 QBs taken in the top 10!
     
  7. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yep a spread, almost shotgun-only scheme that does utilize a lot of bubble screens and that, like almost all college systems nowadays, only asks a QB to make 2 reads tops, usually both on the same side of the field.

    Never said it was a run-first scheme...
     
  8. tstej

    tstej Cheesehead

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    Do they throw alot of bubble screens yes, but they also throw down the field more the most spread teams as well. Watch Missouri under Gabbert and watch Baylor's offense and its 2 different styles. Missouri was almost all stick routes and short crossing routes. Baylor on the other hand likes to use post routes go routes etc which makes it easier to evauluate the qb than most spreads. It's why you can never look at stats with a spread qb because basically in scouting the bubble screen is useless. Watch RG3 sometime and you will see how good of a passer he is down the field.

    Luck does get alot of hype and I still would take Luck over RG3 but the decision isn't as easy as people make it out to be.
     
  9. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Agreed.

    Regarding Luck, as I've stated before, it would shock me if he didn't turn out into a very, very good QB in the NFL. But I'm not so sure about "surefire elite" QB. And it's not just from the games I've seen. Watching what Harbaugh did to Alex Smith in only his first year, and without any offseason, is very telling of just how much the system helps the QB. Now, Luck plays better than Alex Smith, better arm, better intangibles. But I still question Luck's accuracy downfield and as well as on improvised passes (not timed). I do think he's a really smart and hardworking kid, but to have the mental capability of Rodgers, Brees, Manning and Brady is rare, to be able to recognize defenses and make the correct adjustements every single play is not easy. He does it and does it well in college, but he has the great benefit of playing in a run-first offense and working the playaction passes. Luck doesn't do 30% of what the Elite guys do at the LOS (in the terms of the passing game, not counting reading the box and checking to a run). What Luck does at the LOS is not even close to what Matt Ryan has to do, and Ryan plays in a similar system.

    Let's just say this: Luck plays in an offense that emphasises the RB. I question if he can excell in an offense that emphasises the QB. Play very well in such an offense, I'm pretty sure he'll be able to. But he's being painted as better than Manning, and I think that's premature.
     
  10. Wood Chipper

    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    Honestly the quarterbacks drafted in the first round and Dalton have all shown flashes of NFL caliber talent when they have played. The one who I think got the short end of the stick was Gabbert. Talk about working with no offense.
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    But then again, every time he sees one of those big meanies coming at him he knows that if he just throws the ball away the boo boo hurts less.
     
  12. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Scouts-corner-Florida-StateOklahoma-breakdown.html
    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Draft-talk-10.html
    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Landry-Jones-vs-Andrew-Luck.html&page=2

    Very interesting takes on Jones by the NFP guys. They do make the same conclusion that I did, that Jones is the best pure thrower in this draft.

    But they bring a great point, one that I didn't notice in the games I've seen him, that when the pocket is breaking down Jones doesn't set his foot well and gets rattled, and can lose sight of his progressions and lock on one guy. They even compare him to Gabbert.

    Now, I understand the comparison, but it's not really the same. I've not seen Jones simply throw the ball up for grabs in face of pressure, afraid to get hit, and that's what Gabbert does. But I did see errant throws when the pocket was closing in.

    One thing that needs to be said is that reports are Jones has improved greatly from his previous years in his progressions and in his poise in the pocket, so it's not probable that this is his ceiling, that he can't improve in those areas.

    But I agree with them, Luck is much more advanced in those areas, and if Jones doesn't progress significantly at those, he'll never be a great QB in the NFL. Jeff George was an amazing thrower of the football after all.
     
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  13. MNPackAttack

    MNPackAttack Cheesehead

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    how bout them packers?
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Ugh. I take back everything I said about Landry Jones.

    What an awful game. It looked like Joe Flacco playing the Steelers. Accuracy won't do any good when you're consistantly afraid of pressure. He doesn't set his foot, he looses grip on the ball... In the NFL he's not gonna have a clean pocket most of the time. He's not gonna be very good if he can't throw under pressure, and I don't know if you can improve reflexes. It's just instinctual, he gets afraid of the rush and all his fundamentals go to space.
     
  15. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I like Barkley over Jones personally.
     
  16. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I don't like Barkley at all but after last night's game I'm not so sure anymore...
     

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