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2012 QBs

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by PackersRS, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I love QB play. Just love it. So many people are acclaiming Luck to be the surefire #1 pick, and I could absolutely see that coming. But I need to get it off my chest.

    The best QB in this upcoming draft, when talking about measurables, is Landry Jones. I don't know about his work ethic, and I haven't seen enough games to gauge precisely his ability to read defenses and his decision making.

    But there's one thing that I have no doubt about: his accuracy. It is off the charts. He is the most accurate prospect I've seen the last few years. You know the Rodgers' throws, that it's not just near where it should be, it's precisely where it should be? That's Jones. He's more accurate than Bradford was in college. His offense is closer to the pros, though he works on a shotgun system, it's not one read and go. His decision making is good so far (that I've seen), not great, and his pre-snap reads are also good but not great. His pocket presence needs work also, but all of those can be improved in time, with good work ethic. His precision is unique, can't be duplicated. And it'll get better in the weight room, with a stronger arm.

    I was watching the Stanford-USC game last night and that made up my mind. Luck would be the safer pick, he WILL be a great QB in the league. But his accuracy is not great, it's not pinpoint. He is great at timed passes but he misses a lot of passes when he needs to improvise, particularly medium to deep. He couldn't get much going when his offense went passing mode, so far he needs the running game to work so he can work short and playaction passes. Think of what Matt Ryan is doing, Luck is Matt Ryan with a better arm, and the ability to run. But Landry Jones is a better thrower.

    As for Matt Barkley, he's not gonna be a good QB. He reminds me of another Matt from USC, Leinart. He has a good arm but not great, good accuracy but not great, but he plays in a ridiculously easy system. I question his decision-making, and in the pros his receivers won't be quite open. The way he threw a quick out, he threw it behind his receiver, who was able to make a catch. But if he throws that in the pros, it's a pick 6 every time. I don't know if he's a spoiled douchebag like Leinart, but Mark Sanchez isn't, and he came from the very same system. Mark Sanchez has a better arm than Barkley though. Don't let that nice touch on that fade TD fool you, Barkley was overthrowing and underthrowing his receivers all night long.

    I need to watch more, and if anyone has an opinion or better information I would love to hear. But I'm right now predicting that, if he has the work ethic and leadership necessary, Landry Jones will be the best QB to come out of this draft.



    7:30 and forward illustrates what I'm talking about.
     
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  2. cyoung

    cyoung Cheesehead

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    I haven't seen enough of Jones either to judge him entirely, but watching the first half of the Oklahoma and Kansas State game I saw him overthrowing his receivers and throwing into solid coverage leading towards two interceptions and almost a third. That being said he had a tremendous second half (that I didn't see) but his stats look tremendous. As much as I hate to say it as I hate USC I believe that Matt Barkley is a good quarterback and could be a good quarterback at the next level
     
  3. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I think Luck will be #1 but I must say, I was watching that same USC/ Stanford game last night and I was very impressed with the play of Matt Barkley. He took Luck to 3 rounds of OT and lost it on a fumble in the endzone. OT is college ball is little more than a glorified QB duel and I was very impressed with Barkley's ability to keep pace with Luck. Not an easy task at all.
     
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  4. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yeah, the games I saw (didn't see vs Kansas) he was missing some passes, but every college QB misses passes, and it's not as if he was throwing wild balls... The ones he was making was very accurate (in the perfect place). The decision-making (throwing into solid coverage) was also good, but the first quarter against Texas he wasn't great. I don't care one bit about college stats, they don't mean a thing. Tebow was above 60% completion, and he is awful throwing. In college, the windows are huge, a QB doesn't have to be very accurate, he just needs to get the ball there. Moreso in a spread system, it's really easy reads.

    Like I said, I need to see more, but what I saw was special. It's rare for a college QB to be that accurate. Cam Newton was very accurate in college, but he was playing on a one read system, so you couldn't really tell how good he was. Very easy to be accurate when you only have one read.

    As for Barkley, again, the games I've seen from him, (Stanford, Notre Dame, Cal) I just didn't see enough from him. Nothing that popped out. Not a great arm, not very accurate, wasn't making great changes at the LOS, was staring at his receivers... I believe that he's more of a product of that system than a great prospect. But both Mark Sanchez and Matt Leinart went into the top 10, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was picked early.

    I'm pretty sure I'll look like a fool and will make different evaluations, maybe even contradicting myself...
     
  5. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

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    i still dont see why luck is practically a hall of famer in some peoples eyes..he does nothing i havent seen seen before..what makes him so GREAT?
     
  6. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    GREAT leadership, work ethic, great arm that can make all the throws, solid decision making, and is a treat to run.

    That being said, I agree with you. His decision making is good but not great, he's not very accurate with medium and deep throws (he's really only accurate with timed passes), and he plays on a run first team that doesn't ask him to do a lot, he works the playaction most of the time, when the reads are much easier.

    But the thing with him are the intangibles with very good physical skills. Hard to see him flopping in the NFL. He's like a Matt Ryan with much better physical skills.
     
  7. SanDiegoCheese

    SanDiegoCheese West Coast Cheesehead

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    Matty Ice, is the real deal! (Proud of my fellow Trojan) :tup:

    Matt, is NFL ready. He was one of the most hyped West Coast QB prospects of the last decade. I think the fact that that so many kids work with QB gurus like Steve Clarkson helps out, alot. Matty make NFL reads, goes through his progressions, reads the D and makes adjustments at the line of scrimmage.

    **That being said, he isn't the best NFL prospect on the team. The real stud of the Trojans is Robert Woods WR #2 - remember the name, this dude is A BEAST!!!**
     
  8. PackersDraft

    PackersDraft Draftnik

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    Out of the games I've seen, Andrew Luck is the best quarterback in the class. Landry Jones is very accurate, however he is inferior when it comes to mechanics, 3, 5, and 7 step drops, throwing motion, throwing on the run, intangibles, throwing power, and clutch factor. Let me explain that last one. When I look for a franchise quarterback I want to have someone that is a winner. Andrew Luck proved in the USC/Stanford game that he has the heart to be a successful NFL quarterback. Landry Jones didn't however in Oklahoma's loss 2 weeks ago. I would also say Andrew Luck as great decision making. Landry Jones is an accurate Joe Flacco. Andrew Luck has the leadership of Tim Tebow and the talent of Aaron Rodgers.
     
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  9. Boy Scout

    Boy Scout Cheesehead

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    I think its a no brainer that Luck will be #1, and that Ryan to Luck
    comparison was great.
     
  10. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Best prospect out of USC IMHO is Matt Kalil. And the last USC game still left me with the impression that Barkley isn't going to be a stud. Too many missed passes, particularly deep throws. He does connect some of those, but a guy that reminds me of him is Clausen. I did believe at the time that Clausen was going to be a stud, that his stats were great, but the guy is a huge bust. I don't know about work ethic and leadership (all which Clausen has none), but the way he plays QB reminds me of Matt Barkley, makes good decisions in his system and works with easy reads, and can make some deep throws, but he isn't very accurate and isn't very strong armed. Specially in those quick outs, in college Clausen connected in almost all of those, but the ball was always a little behind the WR. In the pros, those plays were intercepted, and I fear it'll happen the same with Barkley. But time will tell!
    Lol truth be told despite the amazing accuracy, I did see a little bit of Joe Flacco in Jones, his mechanics and the way he stands on the pocket are eerily similar. That's not a good thing. I agree with you, but those same things were said about Rodgers coming out of Cal. His mechanics weren't great, and losing to USC when he failed to convert on 1st and goal, he was labelled "not clutch". If Jones has the work ethic of Aaron Rodgers, he can work on all those aspects, but accuracy is the hardest thing to improve in a QB. You can improve your timing accuracy, as Luck does, but the accuracy to thread the ball in non-timed plays is rare, and Jones has it.

    I compare Jones to the previous Oklahoma QB. Bradford was a more polished QB, but his biggest atribute was his accuracy, and from watching both, I believe Jones has even better accuracy.
     
  11. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

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    I love Luck. Been watching his lately more and more (since the Colts suck). I am becoming smitten.

    Sounds like Harbaugh was smitten.
    http://bayarea.sbnat...uch-as-his-wife
     
  12. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Great post, glad I read this, and I have to agree with you on L. Jones. He's under the radar while Luck gets the spotlight, but I think you put Landry Jones on the bench to be mentored into the right system and he's going to be a great quarterback. He has the accuracy and I like his attitude, you can tell all he wants to do is win. He will be a better one coming out of the draft.
     
  13. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

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    I like Jones. I can deal with Jones.

    Luck is better though. Luck is the big prize everyone wants.

    Oh man listen to me with Luck lately. Sigh.
     
  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    2 years in a row
     
  15. tstej

    tstej Cheesehead

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    Everytime I watch Landry Jones it seems when his first read is covered he forces the ball into coverage. If you watch him live he will often force the ball to his first read even if his 2nd or 3rd reads are wide open. With that said he does talent to be better than Luck it just would take some time as he is not as polished as Luck.
     
  16. SanDiegoCheese

    SanDiegoCheese West Coast Cheesehead

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    Luck loses this week to Oregon this week. Book it! :tup:
     
  17. tstej

    tstej Cheesehead

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    I'd rather see Oklahoma St vs LSU anyway
     
  18. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I can't stand both Alabama and LSU, their QB play is just horrible. College is all about mismatches, much moreso than the pros, that's why those teams win so much, too much talent in the defense and in playmaking positions. But their passing game is awful.
     
  19. MNPackAttack

    MNPackAttack Cheesehead

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    luck would've been the number one this past year if he left. there's no question he'll be the number one in 2012. but, the number of teams with a quarterback need is high, so both him and Jones will go high and have chances early on to show what they're made of. Overall though luck is an NFL ready quarterback and will most likely have a better career. the only way i could see Jones becoming a better quarterback in the league is if he ends up on a team with a great set of young recievers that can go out and catch some of his passes.
     
  20. tstej

    tstej Cheesehead

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    I think the guy to watch for if he declares is Robert Griffin III. Great accuracy on deep balls and has track star speed.
     
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  21. PackersDraft

    PackersDraft Draftnik

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    LSU has two pretty decent quarterbacks that they use. Lee and Jefferson.
     
  22. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Decent for college? Agreed. Neither of them could start in any team in the NFL. That team doesn't ask neither of them to make more than 2 reads in any play.

    I just don't like gimmick offenses. That's just my personal taste.
     
  23. PackersDraft

    PackersDraft Draftnik

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    Well you said in your post before that the QB play is horrible. Then you said it's decent for college. But I don't like gimmick offenses either. I didn't say they would be great NFL quarterbacks. Blaine Gabbert played in one in college and now he's going to be bad in the pros.
     
  24. burt packerack

    burt packerack Cheesehead

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    it would be funy to see luck sayy ''you know what, im gonna stay another year."
     
  25. burt packerack

    burt packerack Cheesehead

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    it would be cool to see russel wilson in the nfl but he has a good future in the mlb
     

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