WR/TE in the draft?

[Vrill]

I wonder what the chances are that we draft a WR or a TE in the 2nd or 3rd? Or hell, what about at pick #21?

We usually draft WRs somewhere in the middle rounds, but whats the off chance that TT pulls the trigger on a WR in rounds 1-3?

What if Mike Evans is there at #21 for example? Long shot, but hey, you never know......

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Really??? You weren´t able to find an existing thread on the forum in which the discussion is about what to do during the draft and had to create another new one???

 

[thisisnate]

http://www.packerforum.com/forums/draft-talk.26/

 

[greenbayscot]

I believe TT will take a very close look at TE Ebron if he is sitting there at 21. We know TT will take BAP at that spot and it could be him.

 

[Luca]

What if Mike Evans is there at #21 for example? Long shot, but hey, you never know......

Mike Evans at 21 seems like a long shot, but if that happens (without a good reason), you have to pull the trigger.

I think that I would pick any top 10/15 guy over a top 25 "need" pick. However if these guys fall during the draft, there is often a good reason for that to happen.

 

[PikeBadger]

Only Ted knows.......

It would be awesome to see our final draft board and take note of all the missing names and obscure players on it that most people know almost nothing about. Imo, Ted's board probably does not look anything like Kiper/McShea's or other GM's boards.

I'm curious how many Iowa players are on that final board. I think Ted and his scouts have an appreciation for Ferentz's coaching philosophy and methods.

I expect to see at least one WR and one TE drafted. I've learned over the years to not even attempt to predict who Ted's staff likes. I've learned to trust them to know what will work best. The only time I've questioned the GM was when they drafted Harrell. I never liked that pick.

 

[Poppa San]

Mike Evans at 21 seems like a long shot, but if that happens (without a good reason), you have to pull the trigger.

I think that I would pick any top 10/15 guy over a top 25 "need" pick. However if these guys fall during the draft, there is often a good reason for that to happen.

Yeah, that Rodgers pick a few years back was wasted 'cause he fell from #1 to the mid 20's.

 

[Luca]

Yeah, that Rodgers pick a few years back was wasted 'cause he fell from #1 to the mid 20's.

I don't think you understand what I tried to say. I tried to say that you always need to stay with your board and need to draft the best player available. However we (the fans) don't always have the same info as the teams. So if a guy drops, it's often because of issues (injury concerns, character concerns or other concerns) that we don't know about (for example: Chris Polk in 2012).

I don't think that Evans will be there at 21 unless there are issues that we don't know about. If that's not the case and he is the best player on your board you should pick him.

 

[Poppa San]

I don't think you understand what I tried to say. I tried to say that you always need to stay with your board and need to draft the best player available. However we (the fans) don't always have the same info as the teams. So if a guy drops, it's often because of issues (injury concerns, character concerns or other concerns) that we don't know about (for example: Chris Polk in 2012).

I don't think that Evans will be there at 21 unless there are issues that we don't know about. If that's not the case and he is the best player on your board you should pick him.

I interpreted you to mean that if a player the media has rated at a certain value falls in the draft, there is something the teams know about and the Packers should shy away from picking said player. I gave an example of a player in said situation that the Packers did chose and has been better than OK based on his draft position. Another example was Randy Moss though teams do have justifiable concerns about players with drug use and legal issues.

 

[PikeBadger]

Lets say Ted has 150 names on his board with only 8 names where value is equivalent or better than pick 21. Evans may be the top player on his board but overall he thinks he is the 28th best player in the draft. Ted would try to trade down. Would you?

Edited: I intended this as a question for Luca

 

[TJV]

It seems we have this discussion every year before the draft. IMO the evidence is clear Thompson doesn’t pick the “best player available” and in fact no GM does in a pure fashion or it would occasionally lead to absurd results, like consecutive picks at the same position, and/or multiple players who don’t fit the team’s system or needs. I believe Thompson uses “best value available” and he does that by taking into account the players currently on the roster. Also as I’ve posted before (no doubt ad nausea to some) I believe most teams divide their board into talent tiers and when a player from a higher tier is available, even if he’s not at a position of need, even if he’s at a position of strength, I think Thompson’s philosophy is to either take that player or trade down for value (not just for the sake of trading down). IMO that explains the pick of Sherrod, for example: I’ll bet he was elevated on the Packers board because of the Packers’ need at OT. And it explains the Rodgers’ pick: To have a player from the top tier at the most important position in football for his first pick as GM, at pick #24, had to be a wet dream for Thompson.

So if a WR is available at #21 who is the highest rated player (by a significant amount) on the Packers’ board I’ll bet Thompson grabs him. Even though WR is not relatively a significant need.

 

[HyponGrey]

Can we please get a tall TE?

Ted has never picked a skill player in the 1st (with the exception of QB. Ok, so that one WR in SEA, but I'm not sure that counts) so I'd assume the player would have to be far and away the very best value otb for us to pull the trigger and not trade down.

Lets not forget that Al Davis->Ron Wolf->Ted Thompson. Stopwatch is important to this organization.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It seems we have this discussion every year before the draft. IMO the evidence is clear Thompson doesn’t pick the “best player available” and in fact no GM does in a pure fashion or it would occasionally lead to absurd results, like consecutive picks at the same position, and/or multiple players who don’t fit the team’s system or needs. I believe Thompson uses “best value available” and he does that by taking into account the players currently on the roster. Also as I’ve posted before (no doubt ad nausea to some) I believe most teams divide their board into talent tiers and when a player from a higher tier is available, even if he’s not at a position of need, even if he’s at a position of strength, I think Thompson’s philosophy is to either take that player or trade down for value (not just for the sake of trading down). IMO that explains the pick of Sherrod, for example: I’ll bet he was elevated on the Packers board because of the Packers’ need at OT. And it explains the Rodgers’ pick: To have a player from the top tier at the most important position in football for his first pick as GM, at pick #24, had to be a wet dream for Thompson.

So if a WR is available at #21 who is the highest rated player (by a significant amount) on the Packers’ board I’ll bet Thompson grabs him. Even though WR is not relatively a significant need.

I asbolutely agree that anyone who is far and away the best value will get drafted, my only question is this: outside of Watkins, what WRs can you confidently say will absolutely be better professional players than the next five guys drafted? I like Mike Evans and I personally think Kelvin Benjamin won't be very good (at least not for a long time) but I am by no means certain that Jordan Matthews won't be better than either of them. The WR position is one of the most difficult to project going into the NFL. Obviously Thompson knows WAY more about these guys than I do, but just going off the history of the position, I don't know if there's really ever any true value in a late first-round WR. At least at other positions there is a little more gradation between the players.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Rodgers was a "need" pick. If we did not go high for a QB in that draft it would have been in the next. Favre was 35 and mumbling about quitting; not being on acute alert for an heir apparent would have been unconscionably short sighted. Rodgers falling was a serendipitous event that perfectly fit the moment for Thompson. He knew he'd likely not get a shot like that again before Favre became a real problem.

Brady will be 37 and has made no gestures toward retiring. Belichick is entertaining a couple highly rated QBs. He has a need...if not right now then in the next year or two to get the proper training before Brady calls it a day. If the right guy falls to a spot that presents good value he might just trade up to fill the "need" as is his wheeler-dealer habit.

That's the way it works with franchise QBs. You want the heir apparent a couple of years in house before the franchise guy walks out the door. Besides the training aspect, you want to make sure you have not picked Leaf-like bust, or a Brohm-like bust for that matter.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. Marqise Lee in a trade down. Maybe Donte Moncrief in a trade down a few slots lower. Or wait for the second round.

 

[HyponGrey]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. Marqise Lee in a trade down. Maybe Donte Moncrief in a trade down a few slots lower. Or wait for the second round.

Moncrief is like WR7/8 in this draft. Couldn say I see him in the 1st.

Fun Fact: Jerry Rice Jr and his 2nd cousin are both in this draft's WR class.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Moncrief is like WR7/8 in this draft. Couldn't say I see him in the 1st.

I didn't say "1st.", did I?

 

[HyponGrey]

I didn't say "1st.", did I?

Touche`

 

[PackfanFB]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. Marqise Lee in a trade down. Maybe Donte Moncrief in a trade down a few slots lower. Or wait for the second round.

Love Donte Moncreif. I think he is being underrated in this class, has both physically and deceptive speed. Also think another 3rd round sleeper is Devin Street from Pitt. He's tall (6'3'') and has the body type to get stronger which is basically the only thing he lacks right now. Great route runner and great hands, the type of package we usually look for over a project type (poor route runner) like Benjamin or Martavis Bryant. If we could manage it, I wouldn't mind seeing the Packers doubling up in the draft (maybe 3rd and 4th) round on WRs. Could get a duo that compliments eachother like Landry and Street.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Love Donte Moncreif. I think he is being underrated in this class, has both physically and deceptive speed. Also think another 3rd round sleeper is Devin Street from Pitt. He's tall (6'3'') and has the body type to get stronger which is basically the only thing he lacks right now. Great route runner and great hands, the type of package we usually look for over a project type (poor route runner) like Benjamin or Martavis Bryant. If we could manage it, I wouldn't mind seeing the Packers doubling up in the draft (maybe 3rd and 4th) round on WRs. Could get a duo that compliments eachother like Landry and Street.

Street would be a reach in the third round, don´t want the Packers to draft smaller guys like Landry.

 

[PackfanFB]

Street would be a reach in the third round, don´t want the Packers to draft smaller guys like Landry.

Don't you see Landry as basically a carbon-copy of Greg Jennings coming out of college? He's not tall, yes, and his 40 times suck, but he's a great route runner, has great hands and knows the game. If the WR class was not so deep this year, Landry would go in the 2nd round. It would be a gift to get him in the third.

Where do you think Street should go? Originally I would agree that he's a 4th-5th round guy, but he's been climbing boards because he impressed at his pro day, especially in the forty which was in the 4.4 range. He's another guy who is polished in route running which is what GB looks for in WRs. If we took him with pick 98 (our 3rd round comp) it would not be a reach IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Don't you see Landry as basically a carbon-copy of Greg Jennings coming out of college? He's not tall, yes, and his 40 times suck, but he's a great route runner, has great hands and knows the game. If the WR class was not so deep this year, Landry would go in the 2nd round. It would be a gift to get him in te third.

I don´t see a need for a smaller WR who would primarily play in the slot as I´d rather have Cobb lining up there. I would like the Packers to draft a taller guy capable of playing outside and possessing the speed to be a deep threat.

Where do you think Street should go? Originally I would agree that he's a 4th-5th round guy, but he's been climbing boards because he impressed at his pro day, especially in the forty which was in the 4.4 range. He's another guy who is polished in route running which is what GB looks for in WRs. If we took him with pick 98 (our 3rd round comp) it would not be a reach IMO.

I´m always skeptical about guys who climbed draft boards because of their combine performance or pro day workout, I rather trust the film. I´d be fine with taking Street in the fifth round, not earlier though.

 

[HyponGrey]

I don´t see a need for a smaller WR who would primarily play in the slot as I´d rather have Cobb lining up there. I would like the Packers to draft a taller guy capable of playing outside and possessing the speed to be a deep threat.



I´m always skeptical about guys who climbed draft boards because of their combine performance or pro day workout, I rather trust the film. I´d be fine with taking Street in the fifth round, not earlier though.

Especially one without elite speed and high RS potential.