Wow!!! Colt Lyerla participating in rookie camp

[paulska]

And I'm just saying that rejection of the disease model does not preclude one from being intelligent and compassionate. Nor does it represent a lack of understanding. I can tell you with absolute certainty from experience that those alcoholics and drug addicts who see themselves as having a disease have poorer outcomes than those who don't. The ones who think they have a disease almost invariably use that idea to justify further abuse. Those who define their addiction as a problem to be solved by and large have much better outcomes.

I'm not going to argue personal experience with anyone. I can see how that approach can yield positive outcomes. I've also seen positive outcomes arise out of addiction as a disease approach too. Not everyone who views addiction as a disease view it as a crutch- I have seen many young people come to understand that addiction is something they can minimize through tremendously difficult choice making and a host of other strategies, and by treating addiction as a life long condition that has to be managed (not unlike diabetes, a metaphor some clinicians hold up in models like this). I think what this shows is that addiction requires a variety of approaches to deal with, because it doesn't work the same for everyone. It's pretty rare that treating conditions have only one approach in best practice- usually there are a spate of things that could be done with varying degrees of effectiveness. Here's hoping that the Packers can leverage their resources to assist Lyerla with finding the approach that helps him put addiction behind him for life, regardless of what the model used is. It would be great to see...

At the end of this, I suppose when you get down to the finer details of what people actually think, you discover that initial points of view have greater depth than is originally apparent. It seemed to me your first post on this topic was emphatically opposed to thinking of addiction as the result of anything other than poor, selfish, choice making. After chatting back and forth, you make a bunch of valid points on the topic now that we've drilled down, and it's this kind of dialogue I really appreciate about the internet when people have a mind to be civil about exchange and disagreement. Thanks for this!

 

[paulska]

I said "quick search". I was simply challenging your original position by showing the massive Internet-based discussion/debate that is ongoing on this topic. Though I agree it's hardly something one would use to advance a research topic or PhD dissertation, a QUICK glance at sites such as apa.org and nih.gov is also not a horrible place to start.

Regarding my request for a source: When one takes a position that seems to come from known fact, it is expected to have a source listed. I am sure you ask your high school students to do the same. Btw, I am not interested in a reading list.

Also, regarding your comment on avoiding the use of links to privileged materials: As a result of my business activities, I have access to nearly every piece of written scientific, medical or legal document that has ever been published. Many people do today via a simple membership or two. It's not a rare thing.

It's great to chat with people who have access to literature that really plumbs the depths of ideas. Most people, despite it being pretty affordable to do so, don't. I enjoy the ability to read widely and deeply when I need to because of my role as a teacher and the access I have to some amazing research resources.

Paul, look am not trying to pick a fight here. I was just saying that no one knows whether addiction is a disease or not (depends on the definition used...) nor does anyone know the factors involved. As you say it's complicated. And, unknown. So, calling out someone's opinion as fact or fiction is likely baseless.

And, just to keep it light-hearted: Do you actually talk like you write? If so, wow.

I wasn't trying to pick a fight either- I just think addiction is one of those issues that is dangerous when we allow it to be treated simplistically- there's too much potential to do foolish things in the absence of good knowledge. There are tons of topics like that- poverty, racism, privilege- the list goes on and on. Sometimes the best answer is "we just can't say"- it takes a while to be comfortable with saying that though because it doesn't sell well in our silver bullet soundbite 140 character wisdom era...

I also don't have any problem with people expecting a position to be well defended- no offense on that. As for whether I talk like I write, I suppose it depends the kind of conversation I'm having and the audience I happen to be sharing it with. One thing I've learned is that you can't talk about complex, multifaceted ideas using the 600 most commonly used English words. If you want to know lots of things, your vocabulary has to stretch to be able to contain/define/know them. When your vocabulary stretches, so do your horizons. I do confess to being a word fiend though. I appreciate the back and forth here- felt respect and good humour throughout- wish all the posting back and forth on internet forums exhibited similar good form!

 

[Vrill]

Is he turning heads in practice? Any word?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Is he turning heads in practice? Any word?

OTAs don´t start until Thursday, so we have to wait some more days.

 

[PFanCan]

It's great to chat with people who have access to literature that really plumbs the depths of ideas. Most people, despite it being pretty affordable to do so, don't. I enjoy the ability to read widely and deeply when I need to because of my role as a teacher and the access I have to some amazing research resources.



I wasn't trying to pick a fight either- I just think addiction is one of those issues that is dangerous when we allow it to be treated simplistically- there's too much potential to do foolish things in the absence of good knowledge. There are tons of topics like that- poverty, racism, privilege- the list goes on and on. Sometimes the best answer is "we just can't say"- it takes a while to be comfortable with saying that though because it doesn't sell well in our silver bullet soundbite 140 character wisdom era...

I also don't have any problem with people expecting a position to be well defended- no offense on that. As for whether I talk like I write, I suppose it depends the kind of conversation I'm having and the audience I happen to be sharing it with. One thing I've learned is that you can't talk about complex, multifaceted ideas using the 600 most commonly used English words. If you want to know lots of things, your vocabulary has to stretch to be able to contain/define/know them. When your vocabulary stretches, so do your horizons. I do confess to being a word fiend though. I appreciate the back and forth here- felt respect and good humour throughout- wish all the posting back and forth on internet forums exhibited similar good form!

Agreed on all your points.

 

[GoPGo]

I'm not going to argue personal experience with anyone. I can see how that approach can yield positive outcomes. I've also seen positive outcomes arise out of addiction as a disease approach too. Not everyone who views addiction as a disease view it as a crutch- I have seen many young people come to understand that addiction is something they can minimize through tremendously difficult choice making and a host of other strategies, and by treating addiction as a life long condition that has to be managed (not unlike diabetes, a metaphor some clinicians hold up in models like this).

I think "condition" is a much better term. For the lay person, I think the term "condition" more readily implies something that has to be managed and requires work to overcome. I think when most people think "disease" they think cancer, chickenpox, flu, meningitis etc., that can be healed by simply following a treatment plan - i.e. something that has a clear, specific pathology that can be addressed directly by the physician.

Here's hoping that the Packers can leverage their resources to assist Lyerla with finding the approach that helps him put addiction behind him for life, regardless of what the model used is. It would be great to see...

Unfortunately, I feel that his problems go far beyond addiction. As has been mentioned before, he may not actually be addicted to anything. To me the biggest issue is his character and complete lack of maturity. If he behaves anywhere close to how he behaved at Oregon, his days in Green Bay will be very, very short. He needs weekly sessions with a skilled therapist, and that's not intended as any kind of insult.

At the end of this, I suppose when you get down to the finer details of what people actually think, you discover that initial points of view have greater depth than is originally apparent.

Semantics?

dialogue I really appreciate about the internet when people have a mind to be civil about exchange and disagreement. Thanks for this!

And likewise, sir!

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Nonsense. There are countless others who had just as crappy a childhood who don't exhibit his issues.

I just basically regurgitated the article I read.

 

[AKCheese]

Kid made some mistakes, so did Paul Hornung, so did Max McGhee, Brett Favre and scores of other Packers past and present....... So has everyone posting on this forum.
Who cares if he was addicted was not, his fault, not his fault blah blah blah. Either you're willing to look past all than IF..... BIG IF..... A) you have put all that behind you and B) you have the talent to help the Green Bay Packers win football games. If you're NOT willing to look past that then you're wasting everyone's time bringing him in. I don't see TT as a time waster.

I hope he's everything he's touted to be AND he gets his life turned around. Odds are he's not as great as the raves you read about him and not as bad as the rants against him.

Green Bay and the NFL are not rehab facilities, he either comes in ready to preform or it'll be a short stay. Deciding what to do regarding him this year will be easy. The hard choice will be down the road if he actually pans out.

 

[GoPGo]

Kid made some mistakes, so did Paul Hornung, so did Max McGhee, Brett Favre and scores of other Packers past and present.......

"Mistakes?" How about major character problems?

 

[AKCheese]

As opposed to these other guys antics? Ole Max gets popped for a DUI on his way back to,the hotel and his place in Packer/Super Bowl yore certainly changes. Max was ready to throw A Super Bowl and crap all over his team mates because he wanted a couple drinks and some some easy.....and Max was a saint compared to the Golden Boy, have you read his book? curfew violations were legend (and he wasn't staying out late to watch Johnny Carson) , and he almost threw away his career ( and again screwed his team mates) so he could wager on games? Brett got some pretty special treatment when he was abusing unprescribed narcotics ( ok they WERE prescribed, just for,other people) . Chuck Cecil being arrested for drunk and disorderly wiping his bloody nose on the plexiglass divider of the police cruiser (a definite Kodak moment that never made it in the game day program) I would say character deficiencies have not been scarce in Packer history...... These guys were all much older than 19.... 20? yeah I'll give the kid the chance to PROVE he's changed........ I did all these other guys

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Tyler Dunne article about Lyerla:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...ice-on-colt-lyerla-b99279647z1-261042541.html

 

[jaybadger82]

Tyler Dunne article about Lyerla:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...ice-on-colt-lyerla-b99279647z1-261042541.html

Could someone cut and paste the text of the Lyerla article here?

-I hit my Journal/Sentinel free article views limit online and I'm sure as hell not paying for a subscription. Sell some ****ing banner ads, J/S.

 

[PFanCan]

Could someone cut and paste the text of the Lyerla article here?

-I hit my Journal/Sentinel free article views limit online and I'm sure as hell not paying for a subscription. Sell some ******* banner ads, J/S.

Just clear your cache. It resets to 10.

 

[easyk83]

Just clear your cache. It resets to 10.

Or use an incognito tab with Google Chrome.

 

[jaybadger82]

jaybadger82 ≠ tech savvy. Thanks guys.

 

[JBlood]

Could someone cut and paste the text of the Lyerla article here?

-I hit my Journal/Sentinel free article views limit online and I'm sure as hell not paying for a subscription. Sell some ******* banner ads, J/S.

Here it is from the St. Paul Pioneer Press: http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_25857146/green-bay-packers-coaches-ready-roll-dice-colt

Excellent piece of writing by Dunne. The odds are the kid will fail, but here's hoping he has seen the light. He couldn't have landed in a better place than Green Bay, that's for sure.

 

[TJV]

Tom Oates chimes in on Lyerla:
http://host.madison.com/sports/foot...cle_82bb437f-3c23-5d78-b27b-99f64844f3f9.html

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Tom Oates chimes in on Lyerla:
http://host.madison.com/sports/foot...cle_82bb437f-3c23-5d78-b27b-99f64844f3f9.html

Good write up, thanks for sharing. Sounds like his steps are in the right direction and the players/staff/fans are already helping steer him down the correct path.

 

[AmishMafia]

The attention has got be having a big impact on him. I can see where public opinion being so positive is going to weigh on this kid. Now if he screws up, he knows there will be many fans very disappointed. Thats a lot of fans to let down, let alone the teammates.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Could someone cut and paste the text of the Lyerla article here?

-I hit my Journal/Sentinel free article views limit online and I'm sure as hell not paying for a subscription. Sell some ******* banner ads, J/S.

There are simple bypasses you can use, for jsonline and other sites.

For Firefox: right click on the link, then click "Open Link in New Private Window"

For Internet Explorer: there's a similar function...it might be right click on the link, then click "open in new Window". An IE user, which I am not, might be kind enough to verify that.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The attention has got be having a big impact on him. I can see where public opinion being so positive is going to weigh on this kid. Now if he screws up, he knows there will be many fans very disappointed. Thats a lot of fans to let down, let alone the teammates.

Beats the alternative.

 

[Vrill]

So hes tearing up OTAs huh? Im hearing good things.

 

[PFanCan]

I saw the video with all the reporters asking Colt questions. His answers were very intelligent and thoughtful. He definitely does not come across as a dummy or idiot.

 

[GoPGo]

I normally have a pretty good nose for sarcasm. Guess I missed on this one. Being that I am pretty new here I have not had a chance to get a read on what everyone is about. No offense intended.

Fair enough.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So hes tearing up OTAs huh? Im hearing good things.

He had a pretty nice catch but also dropped an easy one. Hardly what I would call tearing up OTAs so far.