Why worry about the running game?

[KGB94SACKEM]

Wow, is this how you spend your day man? Really?

This was your original contribution

Isn't Brett something like 39 - 2 when the temp is below freezing at Lambeau?

Then you followed it up with

Why don't you do something called ... research and come back with an educated response.

Did your original post gives exact statistics? No, so follow your own advice or get off the "do some research" stuff. You yourself even admitted he was right, but now want exact stats after you broad, and general statement.


Why do you instigate so much crap, honestly

 

[Zombieslayer]

Fellow Packer fans - let's take this game by game. If we start seeing the season as a whole instead of playing it game by game, we'll lose games we should win. We need to never think like that.

Right now, what is da Bears weakness? It is defending the pass.

Exhibit A - Of the Bears 4 starting DBs in week 1, none of them will be starting in Week 5. What does that mean? Pass. Screw the run. Only run once we've run up a 14 point lead. I don't want to see a hand-off. If I see a hand-off on first down before we get that 14 point lead, I'm going to be pissed.

Last game vs the Lions - Jon Kitna had possibly the best statistical game of his life with a near perfect rating. Jon Kitna. We all know Jon Kitna is no Joe Montana, yet he rolled up Montana-like stats against da Bears last week, despite getting sacked 6 times.

The week before vs Dallas - Romo throws for 329 yards and 2 TDs.

The week before that vs the Chiefs - The stupid Chiefs try to run against da Bears and they lose. Larry Johnson, last year's 2nd best RB, was held to 55 yards on 16 rushes and no TDs. Bennett added 14 yards on 7 carries. Because they tried to run the ball down da Bears throats, they got their *** handed to them. Bad idea, Chiefs. Let's not make that same mistake.

1st week against the Chargers - Chargers tried to run the ball down da Bears throats with last year's MVP - LT. LT had a whooping 25 yards on 17 carries. Bad idea. Luckily for the Chargers, da Bears O was completely limp and they won 14-3, a very low scoring game.

Moral of the story - Pass against da Bears. Screw the run.

Will we need the run later on in the season? Sure. But for now, let's take this one game at a time. Later on this year, we'll worry about running. I just don't want to see any runs against da Bears until we've built up a comfortable lead.

 

[MassPackersFan]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it? Yeah, we haven't been pounding it yet, because they're still working on timing, etc, and as has been noted, we've been too busy picking apart suspect pass D's.
They have to become more comfortable with the running game, but I don't see any reason to damn it, seeing as we haven't even tried it.

 

[dhpackr]

Care to explain what happens when the temp dips below freezing and it is hard to grip the ball for Favre?

Isn't Brett something like 39 - 2 when the temp is below freezing at Lambeau?

did he have a running game in any of those wins???

Why don't you do something called ... research and come back with an educated response.

I'd expect nothing less from you. do not prove your point, just hurl an insult and duck the question.
classic for pf.com

I asked a question. I wasnt insulting you and if took that as an insult, my friend, get some thicker skin.

Seriously, do some research on those games and educate us on it.

i know the answer, yes we had a running game, now we do not. i am concerned. you are not. simple.

No offense, but I don't trust you as far as I could throw the whole city of Green Bay.

Got links?
I'm really curious to what our running game was. I know it was better than what we have now, but just curious. I'd normally do the research, but you're the one questioning it and I want to see if you are capable of dredging up such information ... or ... if you just simply throw out your opinion and leave it at that.

Which is what a forum is all about

I wonder, do you know that you are proving my point?

Someone states something and someone else asks for facts to back it up. Yes, that is what a forum is about. Especially when someone just throws opinions around as fact, expect them to be called upon to provide something to support it.

It's really a great cycle if used properly.

so you post a responce and say favre is 39-2 in cold weather, then ask me to prove he had a running game?

the fact that green, levens, bennett were all 1000 yard backs is not enough. do i need to post the exact stats to prove this?
I thought most packer fans knew this already?
where have you been the last 10 years.? Really man, what is your point?

you came up with a lame response. i called you on it, and you got angry and demanded stats to prove we had a rushing attack the last few years to cover up the reply. if you do not know we had a running game the last couple years, stats are not going to help you.

 

[dhpackr]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it? Yeah, we haven't been pounding it yet, because they're still working on timing, etc, and as has been noted, we've been too busy picking apart suspect pass D's.
They have to become more comfortable with the running game, but I don't see any reason to damn it, seeing as we haven't even tried it.

there is no ZBS. we are running a west coast offense, and our linemen are drive blockers not cut blockers.

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

"So far this year the gameplans have been for Brett and his WRs to abuse questionable secondaries.

It has worked"


"The Denver Broncos(week 8 opponent) has one of the WORST running defenses in the league(yards and average). THAT is a game to look at. Judge the running game off THAT game, not when we face top 10 running defenses, which is what the Eagles and Giants are(Chicago is 11th)"

'Week 8. That's the game to judge. They have a bad running D and a good passing D. Till then, we play teams with BAD passing D's and GOOD running D's"

trom,

These are three quotes from your original post that I agree with. The game plan has been working as you say. Hopefully the running game will be ready by week eight. I will stay cautiously positive until that time and hope that you are right.

Cheers !!!

 

[warhawk]

LOL CAT FIGHT LOL

i say , we do not run b/c we have lost our identity as a running team. our starting G and both T are drive blockers, not cut blockers. therefore the running lanes are not there.

...and Trom has gone on to say that the Packers have not lost their identity they just have yet to create a run game indentity...so far.

As he said Green carried for over 1000 yards with this same "0" line and so would have Morency if he had taken Green's carries based on his yards per carry.

MM has said "I have to commit to the run in order for it to work effectively." Some people read that as a lack of confidence. I don't see it that way.

He sets up the gameplan based on what he see's as the best chance to win. You know what? It's working. You only get the ball so many times in a game. The plays you call are effective. Why would you screw around with that? He's got more run plays on that clipboard and he could call them. Would you if the other stuff was working like it has? No.

Just like Favre and the Wr's need to get a flow and rythm going so does the running game.With Morency and Heron the only experiened backs going down right before the season that no longer became an option.

I'm with Trom on this. I don't know how we're going to get a running game going until MM see's his way to calling on it more and can hardly blame the line when we run it ten times a game.

 

[all about da packers]

there is no ZBS. we are running a west coast offense, and our linemen are drive blockers not cut blockers.

At the start of the season, I'd have taken issue with that post.

But to be honest I really do wonder if we are a ZBS team right now. I have yet to see a linemen try and actually cutblock somebody effectively.

 

[MassPackersFan]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it? Yeah, we haven't been pounding it yet, because they're still working on timing, etc, and as has been noted, we've been too busy picking apart suspect pass D's.
They have to become more comfortable with the running game, but I don't see any reason to damn it, seeing as we haven't even tried it.

there is no ZBS. we are running a west coast offense, and our linemen are drive blockers not cut blockers.

I don't think we just gave up on it and went to a completely different blocking scheme. Are you seeing our RB going to a specific gap for a run play, or is he picking his spot?

 

[all about da packers]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it?

Mass, our o-line coach from last year Jags said that you should never have a run for a loss in the ZBS.

Yet this season, we've had quite a few (Giants game sticks out). I just don't understand how we regress as a run unit so badly if we are returning the exact same personnel as last year when we were decent. The only thing that's changed is the coaching with Jags leaving, which leads me to believe that our current o-line coaches just don't have adequate experience in the scheme they are trying to teach.

But I do agree with you, at some point we will need to get our run game going. And McCarthy has proven to be able to adjust to what is given to him... if our o-line can't execute the ZB scheme effectively, I trust McCarthy to find a way to get our run game going.


Also, I think people forget that in our Offensive scheme, screen passes are essentially runs. When you take that into account, our "run" O hasn't been dreadful. It's been below par (not dreadful) but it is improving (taking into account screen passes).

 

[all about da packers]

I don't think we just gave up on it and went to a completely different blocking scheme. Are you seeing our RB going to a specific gap for a run play, or is he picking his spot?

I think dh is saying that our linemen are more suited to drive block as opposed to cutblock.

 

[Pack93z]

I don't think we just gave up on it and went to a completely different blocking scheme. Are you seeing our RB going to a specific gap for a run play, or is he picking his spot?

From a post earlier today..Whats wrong with the running game..

Didn't want to type it again..

I disagree with the "no good o-line personel", I think they have the talent, it is being mis-used.

We drafted olineman for the zone system with cut blocking, to date, we are not trying to cut block anyone. Watch the oline, they are comming out of there stance and trying to play too upright, with little to no leverage.

I have said it before, I don't think we have the coaches with experience to coach the ZBS. Or being the Campen played the game and he has integrity from what I know of him, he probably doesn't want to utilize the cuts. If done incorrectly, they can severly hurt the opposition.

So we are trying to zone guys off while trying to play upright with 2/3 of the interior lineman undersized and the other lacking upper body strength. Wonder why it isn't working...

Again, make a couple of adjustments to the blocking scheme, change the mindset a bit, and commit to the run. And production will follow.. we have talent in there, watch the the footwork along with the hand play of the oline.. they have the talent.

It will come... the D's are starting to soften the inside up and then we shall attack..

 

[dhpackr]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it? Yeah, we haven't been pounding it yet, because they're still working on timing, etc, and as has been noted, we've been too busy picking apart suspect pass D's.
They have to become more comfortable with the running game, but I don't see any reason to damn it, seeing as we haven't even tried it.

there is no ZBS. we are running a west coast offense, and our linemen are drive blockers not cut blockers.

I don't think we just gave up on it and went to a completely different blocking scheme. Are you seeing our RB going to a specific gap for a run play, or is he picking his spot?

there is no gap b/c there is no cutblocks b/c our linemen esp. tauch, clifton, colledge are drive blockers, not cut blockers.
which is why MM is not calling running plays. we need a new scheme. run out of the power I with wynn & hall.

 

[MassPackersFan]

Allright, then say that our line isn't suited for the ZBS. That's an arguable point. Saying we don't use zone blocking doesn't make any sense, because we do, whether they are cut blocking correctly or not.

 

[all about da packers]

Speaking of Hall, I wonder how much he has been a part of the problem.

DH, while I wouldn't mind doing something to get the running game going, I think abandoning the blocking scheme we use 4 games into the season isn't the right thing to do. That might be a bit too drastic for now.

If we're 8 or 9 games into the season without improvement, then I think the time will be right for drastic measures.

I don't think it's worth tinkering with a formula that's led to a 4-0 start.

 

[tromadz]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it? Yeah, we haven't been pounding it yet, because they're still working on timing, etc, and as has been noted, we've been too busy picking apart suspect pass D's.
They have to become more comfortable with the running game, but I don't see any reason to damn it, seeing as we haven't even tried it.

there is no ZBS. we are running a west coast offense, and our linemen are drive blockers not cut blockers.

I don't think we just gave up on it and went to a completely different blocking scheme. Are you seeing our RB going to a specific gap for a run play, or is he picking his spot?

there is no gap b/c there is no cutblocks b/c our linemen esp. tauch, clifton, colledge are drive blockers, not cut blockers.
which is why MM is not calling running plays.

Explain last year's run productivity then.

 

[porky88]

We use the ZBS, we'll just not that good at it. We were 23rd in rushing last season which was not all that great. Denver runs the West Coast offense and uses the ZBS as good as anyone.

I think McCarthy should've taken a run at Greg Knapp to be our new offensive coordinator with Jags leaving for Boston College. Knapp has the Raiders rushing offense #1 in football this year and this is the first season they are using the zone blocking scheme. They also run the West Coast offense.

Morency isn't 100% yet but maybe something can eventually get going. Merril Hodge seems to thinks it'll happen.

 

[Pack93z]

Explain last year's run productivity then.

I simply point to the coaching staff and lack of experience in the system.. losing Jag from last year hurt the line more than any of the player losses that he endured.

The proof is in watching the line block December 06 vs Sept 07... they are not firing out the same.

I have faith that they will get it turned around this year.. but a couple of changes may be needed...

 

[dhpackr]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it? Yeah, we haven't been pounding it yet, because they're still working on timing, etc, and as has been noted, we've been too busy picking apart suspect pass D's.
They have to become more comfortable with the running game, but I don't see any reason to damn it, seeing as we haven't even tried it.

there is no ZBS. we are running a west coast offense, and our linemen are drive blockers not cut blockers.

I don't think we just gave up on it and went to a completely different blocking scheme. Are you seeing our RB going to a specific gap for a run play, or is he picking his spot?

there is no gap b/c there is no cutblocks b/c our linemen esp. tauch, clifton, colledge are drive blockers, not cut blockers.
which is why MM is not calling running plays.

Explain last year's run productivity then.

A. Green > B-Jack, Wynn

and jags

 

[packer4ever]

Smell the Glove. Christmas Tree
:twisted:

 

[dhpackr]

Smell the Glove. Christmas Tree
:twisted:

bees twist in the glowing sunshine on tuesday

 

[dhpackr]

Explain last year's run productivity then.

I simply point to the coaching staff and lack of experience in the system.. losing Jag from last year hurt the line more than any of the player losses that he endured.

The proof is in watching the line block December 06 vs Sept 07... they are not firing out the same.

I have faith that they will get it turned around this year.. but a couple of changes may be needed...

like replacing colledge with spitz or moll

 

[tromadz]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it? Yeah, we haven't been pounding it yet, because they're still working on timing, etc, and as has been noted, we've been too busy picking apart suspect pass D's.
They have to become more comfortable with the running game, but I don't see any reason to damn it, seeing as we haven't even tried it.

there is no ZBS. we are running a west coast offense, and our linemen are drive blockers not cut blockers.

I don't think we just gave up on it and went to a completely different blocking scheme. Are you seeing our RB going to a specific gap for a run play, or is he picking his spot?

there is no gap b/c there is no cutblocks b/c our linemen esp. tauch, clifton, colledge are drive blockers, not cut blockers.
which is why MM is not calling running plays.

Explain last year's run productivity then.

A. Green > B-Jack, Wynn

and jags

So let me get this right,

Ahman Green is why tausch,cliff, and colledge aren't cut blocking?

or is it the new OC who used to be the offensive line coach of this team last year?

Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

Nothing to do with all the facts I listed in the original post. :thumbsup:

 

[Pack93z]

like replacing colledge with spitz or moll

Sitting out a bit helped College pick it up last year.. so maybe..

After the Bears game please

 

[dhpackr]

Anybody else remember the coaches talking about how you have to pound the ball in the ZBS scheme, getting 2-3 yards, and eventually you break a few for big gains that make it all worth it? Yeah, we haven't been pounding it yet, because they're still working on timing, etc, and as has been noted, we've been too busy picking apart suspect pass D's.
They have to become more comfortable with the running game, but I don't see any reason to damn it, seeing as we haven't even tried it.

there is no ZBS. we are running a west coast offense, and our linemen are drive blockers not cut blockers.

I don't think we just gave up on it and went to a completely different blocking scheme. Are you seeing our RB going to a specific gap for a run play, or is he picking his spot?

there is no gap b/c there is no cutblocks b/c our linemen esp. tauch, clifton, colledge are drive blockers, not cut blockers.
which is why MM is not calling running plays.

Explain last year's run productivity then.

A. Green > B-Jack, Wynn

and jags

So let me get this right,

Ahman Green is why tausch,cliff, and colledge aren't cut blocking?

or is it the new OC who used to be the offensive line coach of this team last year?

Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

Nothing to do with all the facts I listed in the original post. :thumbsup:

or could it be simply green did not need a huge gap to run through, just a small crease, and jags knew how to coach better than philbin?
Just a thought