Why this draft made no sense at all

[tromadz]

Lare that is not how it works.... you must endorse it as a great pick without question... until proven otherwise... then if he doesn't work out... throw him under the bus as a "bust".

Of course logic says you are right.

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[Pack93z]

Didn't get your nap in today Trom?

 

[Oannes]

Does any NFL team think they didn't make a great pick in the first round? No. That is why they picked the pick they did in the first place. Oftentimes, you're disappointed to learn what you thought was a great move turned out to be disastrous.

Given the Packers problems in Round 1 over the years, I think it would've been prudent to "double the odds" so to speak and get two swings instead of one.

Look how bad we've been in the first round...
'07....Justin Harrelll
'06--- A.J. Hawk
'05---Aaron Rodgers
'04....Ahmad Carroll
'03....Nick Barnett
'02.....Javon Walker
'01.....Jamal Reynolds
'00....Bubba Franks
'99....Antwan Edwards
'98....Vonnie Holliday
'97....Ross Verba
'96....Jon Michels
'95.....Craig Newsome
'94....Aaron Taylor
'93....Wayne Simmons
'92....Terrell Buckley
'91.....Vinnie Clark
'90.....Tony Bennett
'89.....Tony Mandarich
'88.....Sterling Sharpe
'87.....Brent Fullwood

The only "stars" we've gotten out of Round 1 both played WR.... Sterling Sharpe and Javon Walker. I should've kept going to James Lofton.... He was another star.

I guess I'm defeating my own argument.... I think having no first round picks is a better way to go.

Like I believe was mentioned above... We could've, and based on that list, probably should've taken the Cleveland deal and dealt those picks for a proven player.

 

[Zero2Cool]

How many different men made the selections during those last twenty years? Braatz was fired for a reason, because he sucked.

Simmons, Taylor, Newsom, Holliday, Franks, Walker, Barnett and Hawk = good picks

We don't know about Harrell or Rodgers

 

[Lare]

How many different men made the selections during those last twenty years? Braatz was fired for a reason, because he sucked.

Simmons, Taylor, Newsom, Holliday, Franks, Walker, Barnett and Hawk = good picks

We don't know about Harrell or Rodgers

You're right Z2C, with all the time, money and effort everyone puts into it, drafting in the first round is really just a crapshoot. The only difference between that and later selections is the price you pay for them regardless of their production.

The only way we'll truly know if Harrell was worth his draft position is by hindsight.

 

[cheesey]

How many different men made the selections during those last twenty years? Braatz was fired for a reason, because he sucked.

Simmons, Taylor, Newsom, Holliday, Franks, Walker, Barnett and Hawk = good picks

We don't know about Harrell or Rodgers

I was surprised when all he (Oannes) said we only had a couple WR's. I saw quite a few decent names on that list. Hardly could call them all "busts".
Hawk has been very good, but hasn't had enough time to show how great he can be. Rodgers has been riding the bench, so the jury is still out on him.
Barnett isn't good? Geez...........
Franks? He had some good moments. Just sucked last season. Maybe he can regain his status.
Holiday and Talor.......both VERY good players.
Verba wasn't that bad either.
Now Oannes.........go across the NFL and see what teams had a much greater amount of "great" first round picks then the Packers during that same span. I bet the Pack is somewhere in the middle.

 

[cheesey]

How many different men made the selections during those last twenty years? Braatz was fired for a reason, because he sucked.

Simmons, Taylor, Newsom, Holliday, Franks, Walker, Barnett and Hawk = good picks

We don't know about Harrell or Rodgers

You're right Z2C, with all the time, money and effort everyone puts into it, drafting in the first round is really just a crapshoot. The only difference between that and later selections is the price you pay for them regardless of their production.

The only way we'll truly know if Harrell was worth his draft position is by hindsight.

Yes. That is true with ALL picks. Whether It's the 1st overall, or one in the 7th round. Donald Driver has done SO much more then alot of the so called "can't miss" first rounders that have bombed from his draft class.
It's all a guessing game, and the guy that guesses best looks like a genius. The rest, look like Matt Millen.
Time is th ONLY thing that will show who was right or wrong.

 

[paxvogel]

I would not pay 7 million dollars for Randy Moss and he would not restructure to take less. He will be out of the league in two years.

 

[cheesey]

I would not pay 7 million dollars for Randy Moss and he would not restructure to take less. He will be out of the league in two years.

You are right.....he wouldn't restruture for us. HE made the choice to go elsewhere. I hope his choice blows up in his face. (Yes, it's sour grapes on my part)

 

[Oannes]

Javon Walker and Sterling Sharpe were the only STARS. I didn't say the others were busts, although, quite a few of them were.

If you want me to look up how other teams 1st rounders fared over the last 20 years, and you think the Pack is somewhere in the middle, then wouldn't it make sense to double the odds and pick twice in that round?

I think that's the problem with a lot of Packer fans. As alluded to, we had a couple of "decent" picks in Round 1. I know it doesn't always work that way, but isn't the theory that you get most of your difference makers in Round 1? We haven't gotten that.

AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett are decent picks. Barnett is hardly a star. If he was on any other team, I don't think anybody here would think all that highly of him. The same could be said of Hawk. He was the 5th overall pick. I expect to get a little more star power out of the 5th overall slot in the draft. Hawk may, or may not, become a star. Barnett won't be. He's the kind of guy whose production you'd expect out of 2nd or 3rd round pick, and given he was late first round I can live with him.

We should make more trades.... the ones coming to my mind are... Ahman Green, Brett Favre and Al Harris. We won handily in all of those deals.

 

[Arles]

You're right Z2C, with all the time, money and effort everyone puts into it, drafting in the first round is really just a crapshoot. The only difference between that and later selections is the price you pay for them regardless of their production.

So, maybe there is some method to TT's quantity approach "madness" to the draft?

 

[Cory]

Wow. You're right. These teams are primed for a SB run! That's all the Titans need is VY!!! The Jags with that great runnning game(which they havent improved) and defense went 8-8 last year.

Fred Taylor 231 1146 5.0 & 5 TDs
Maurice Jones-Drew 166 941 5.7 & 13 TD's

The Packers would die to have that production. What they are lacking is consistant QB play.

I conceded they have a great run game. I live in FLa and know all about it. The problem is that better defense and great run game got them 8-8 and they didnt improve their pass game or pass defense. Reggie Nelson was a nice pick, but like Harrell we have to wait and see.

 

[Cory]

Cory... You say I don't understand the game of football because I spoke of Corey Williams 7 sacks and Harrell needing to eclipse it? Read the rest of what I wrote... I said his overall impact on the defense and improvement vs. the run were factors too. Football isn't simply a game of stats, I realize this.

I also know that we weren't picking up an extra first for this year...we would've lost our first, but we'd be picking up an extra first next year.

I layed out a plausible scenario had we taken Cleveland's offer. It's likely that Dwayne Jarrett or Sidney Rice would've been our pick at the top of round 2 and we would've been able to take Brandon "No Bo" Jackson at the top of Round 3, or do a trade down and likely get him later in Round 3 and still get James "Round 3 Tragedy" Jones or Aaron "Appendectomy" Rouse.

I feel for the fans who honestly feel that Jacksonville and the Giants are further away from making a run than we are. I guess that no one is arguing the other teams on that list are worse off than us.

The original point was that we aren't going for the throat to win in '07, so since we're obviously building for the future, it would've been nice having TWO picks in Round 1 in '08. Yes, I would be willing to bet both of those picks are TOP 15. Cleveland is not going to finish middle of the pack. If Quinn plays they might be picking 1st next year. As I said before, our 8-8 record was puffed up. We beat garbage the last 4 games including an uninspired Bears team. I will be stunned if we equal 8-8. No matter. The point, really, is where the BROWNS pick will be. I think to argue that it's anything less than a sure Top 10 is being completely dishonest, but people are free to hide behind the whole "it's a crapshoot, no one knows where that picks going to be" argument. To those type of folks I ask you to go lay some money in Vegas on the team with the longest odds to win the SuperBowl, because, as you've said, there's just know way of knowing what might happen. A little use of common sense dictates that Browns pick was a gem of a pick to acquire, but some just can't/won't admit it.

Justin Harrell better be amazing.

Justin Harrell better be amazing? Well he may be great to most during the season, but it seems to me you have your mind already made up from this and your previous posts. I can't believe you are trying to argue that somehow the Giants will be better next year or the Titans for that matter. Both teams have done virtually nothing for their franchise QBs and have lost very key players. You've already rated Brandon Jackson, James Jones, and Aaron Rouse as busts so what's the point of even having this debate?

 

[Cory]

Javon Walker and Sterling Sharpe were the only STARS. I didn't say the others were busts, although, quite a few of them were.

If you want me to look up how other teams 1st rounders fared over the last 20 years, and you think the Pack is somewhere in the middle, then wouldn't it make sense to double the odds and pick twice in that round?

I think that's the problem with a lot of Packer fans. As alluded to, we had a couple of "decent" picks in Round 1. I know it doesn't always work that way, but isn't the theory that you get most of your difference makers in Round 1? We haven't gotten that.

AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett are decent picks. Barnett is hardly a star. If he was on any other team, I don't think anybody here would think all that highly of him. The same could be said of Hawk. He was the 5th overall pick. I expect to get a little more star power out of the 5th overall slot in the draft. Hawk may, or may not, become a star. Barnett won't be. He's the kind of guy whose production you'd expect out of 2nd or 3rd round pick, and given he was late first round I can live with him.

We should make more trades.... the ones coming to my mind are... Ahman Green, Brett Favre and Al Harris. We won handily in all of those deals.

You're not going to be happy no matter what. You have your own closed opinion and that's fine, but to rip on Barnett(he actually does have first round production) and Hawk(after one season no less) is a bit of a stretch.

 

[tromadz]

Yeah was hawk supposed to be a rookie pro bowler?

thats pretty tough.

 

[Cory]

Yeah was hawk supposed to be a rookie pro bowler?

thats pretty tough.

Pro Bowler? You're too light on him. He is supposed to be a HOFer right now.

 

[Oannes]

The sarcasm is a little out of control now. For the record, please point out where I called any of our current picks "busts".

Let me ask you this. When AJ Hawk was drafted at 5, tell me with a straight face that your expectations for him in his first year were lived up to by his production on the field? Did they? No. AJ Hawk wasn't even the defensive rookie of the year and made few, if any, big plays. That is a fact. That doesn't speak to what he may become but he didn't do what was envisioned when he was taken at 5.

The last two guys picked at 5 were Sean Taylor and Cadillac Williams. I'd rather have either of those over Hawk. LaDainian Tomlinson was a 5 pick as well as Jamal Lewis. Those 4 had tremendous difference making first seasons. Hawk was non-descript.

You're right. I'm not happy. The team isn't good. Hopefully, when Brett stops hanging on we can get this thing turned around but I don't see it happening under TT and MM.

 

[Cory]

The sarcasm is a little out of control now.

Let me ask you this. When AJ Hawk was drafted at 5, tell me with a straight face that your expectations for him in his first year were lived up to by his production on the field? Did they? No. AJ Hawk wasn't even the defensive rookie of the year and made few, if any, big plays. That is a fact. That doesn't speak to what he may become but he didn't do what was envisioned when he was taken at 5.

The last two guys picked at 5 were Sean Taylor and Cadillac Williams. I'd rather have either of those over Hawk. LaDainian Tomlinson was a 5 pick as well as Jamal Lewis. Those 4 had tremendous difference making first seasons. Hawk was non-descript.

You're right. I'm not happy. The team isn't good. Hopefully, when Brett stops hanging on we can get this thing turned around but I don't see it happening under TT and MM.

LOL!!! Now you're comparing 3-6 year vets to a guy just going into his second year. Not even that but completely different positions as well lol.

 

[tromadz]

Let me ask you this. When AJ Hawk was drafted at 5, tell me with a straight face that your expectations for him in his first year were lived up to by his production on the field? Did they? No.

did they? yeah. He led the team in tackles.

what the **** else is he supposed to do? lead the team in sacks, interceptions, deflections too?

hes a ****in rookie. i woulda gave him a pass had he sucked, but he didnt. he led the team in tackles.

 

[Oannes]

In your zest to belittle me you didn't take the time to read my post. Compare Hawks first year production to that quartet of players picked at 5. He falls well short of their impact. Very short.

 

[tromadz]

In your zest to belittle me you didn't take the time to read my post. Compare Hawks first year production to that quartet of players picked at 5. He falls well short of their impact. Very short.

Compare him to the #1 overall pick last year.

 

[Cory]

In your zest to belittle me you didn't take the time to read my post. Compare Hawks first year production to that quartet of players picked at 5. He falls well short of their impact. Very short.

I wouldn't "belittle" you if you weren't so obtuse in your opinions. It's obvious you didn't want Hawk from the get-go and now you are "belittling" him and what he did for the team.

 

[Oannes]

Yes... Nice job AJ. How many huge plays did he make? Few. I recall Brian Urlacher completely changing the face of the Bears when he took the field as a rookie. That is the type of impact you expect when you take a guy at 5.

AJ Hawk plays weakside LB. He SHOULD lead the team in tackles. What other position on the field would you expect to do so?

I don't dislike AJ Hawk. He was not a difference maker as a rookie. Perhaps, in time, he will be.

 

[tromadz]

dude you're ****ing crazy, and you scare me.

I've debated with a lot of stupid ******** on this site, but you're not even one of them. you're just insane.

I'll leave you to your insane ramblings.

AJ Sucks, shoulda been a pro bowler. Didn't make big plays, sucks.

enjoy the padded room in a couple years.

 

[Cory]

Yes... Nice job AJ. How many huge plays did he make? Few. I recall Brian Urlacher completely changing the face of the Bears when he took the field as a rookie. That is the type of impact you expect when you take a guy at 5.

AJ Hawk plays weakside LB. He SHOULD lead the team in tackles. What other position on the field would you expect to do so?

I don't dislike AJ Hawk. He was not a difference maker as a rookie. Perhaps, in time, he will be.

Another mistake. It is usually the MLB that has the advantage in production over the WLB. The fact that AJ as a rook led the team in tackles from the weakside when it was dominated by Barnett for the previous three years from the middle says alot.