1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up/a> or Log In

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member! Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Why James Campen must leave

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by NYPacker, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. ThxJackVainisi
    Offline

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,783
    Ratings:
    +1,918 / 49 / -33
    Here’s what Campen has to work with this season:

    LT: Fourth round pick rookie
    LG: Fourth round pick
    OC: UDFA
    RG: Fourth round pick
    RT: Either an UDFA going into his second season or a 5th round pick.

    Reserves: One seventh rounder (Datko) and the rest UFDAs: Gerhart, Van Roten, Hughes, Lewis, and Taylor.
    Missing of course are two first round pick OTs and a fourth round rookie.

    Is anyone here foolish enough to blame Campen for that? Is anyone here foolish enough to blame Campen for installing and sticking with the ZBS? As Cheesehead625 posted, does Campen get any credit for Sitton’s success and Bakhtiari’s rapid progress?

    Having posted all that I am not saying Campen is a great, or even good OL coach. What I am saying is believing just replacing him fixes the problems or thinking the team can’t win a Super Bowl with him as OL coach is in the first instance naive at best and in the second, demonstrably false.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. 12theTruth
    Offline

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Its just not this year its his pedigree. Even before the talent on this years team, we can't coach up the line to effectively block in short yardage situations. He has had his time, I for one believe its time to get a BETTER candidate to lead the offensive line. After the season is over of course. Other teams DO have injuries too.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. ExpatPacker
    Offline

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,071
    Location:
    A Galaxy Far, Far Away
    Ratings:
    +388 / 7 / -0
    We can amend that slightly by pointing out that even though he's a 4th rounder, Sitton was the 1st alternate to the Pro-Bowl last year. But the rest? What I take away from this is that a) the unfortunate injury to Sherrod, our only 1st round OL draft pick in a while, has set this OL back a lot, and b) over the last 2 years TT has not drafted an OL in rounds 1-3 if I'm correct, and it shows. Assuming that somewhere between Bulaga/Sherrod/Bakhtiari we will have 2 legitimate OTs, I see a definite lack at OG and OC. Sitton is solid, but Lang is not, and EDS is average. We need to spend at least one high draft pick on one of those positions. Doesn't have to be a 1st rounder, but fact is that our OL continues to be one of the weakest links in this team.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. SpartaChris
    Offline

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +963 / 25 / -9
    Glad you're not the GM.
  5. 12theTruth
    Offline

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2013
  6. SpartaChris
    Offline

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +963 / 25 / -9
    No claiming I would. Also not trying to be an armchair GM who's looking to trade our best pass rusher.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. HyponGrey
    Offline

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,733
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Ratings:
    +1,022 / 55 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1998
    The Madden is strong in that one. Years have shown that pass rush is infinitely more valuable than pass protection.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. 12theTruth
    Offline

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Actually in case you weren't aware Joe Thomas is regarded as the best left tackle in football. Left Tackle by many is considered the most important position after the QB on the football field. I didn't think this should have to be explained to a football aficionado such as yourself. Clay is amazing no doubt but in order to get something you'd have to give something.

    Joe Thomas is only a year older than Clay and would provide good protection for our franchise for the next 5+ seasons.

    Since big trades don't happen in the NFL anymore its just fantasy but for a fantasy I believe it would be a net positive in the whole scheme of things especially in regard to the well being of the GREATEST player in the NFL Aaron Rodgers!

    The left tackle position becomes even more critical if we can't afford to sign Finley to a long term contract after this season.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2013
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Dan115
    Offline

    Dan115 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,626
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +429 / 33 / -31
    Packer Fan Since:
    1961
    Didn't the Packers just sign Clay to a big contract? And now they would trade him?
  10. 12theTruth
    Offline

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    No. But I would in a hypothetical situation.
  11. Dan115
    Offline

    Dan115 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,626
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +429 / 33 / -31
    Packer Fan Since:
    1961
    OK, LOL y0u have fun.
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. FrankRizzo
    Offline

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,776
    Location:
    Dallas
    Ratings:
    +1,608 / 60 / -33
    Packer Fan Since:
    1969
    And here's the Houston Texans starting OL:

    RT: Derek Newton, 7th Rd pick 2011
    RG: Brandon Brooks, 3rd Rd pick 2012
    C: Chris Myers, 6th Rd pick 2005 by Denver, traded to Houston for 6th Rd pick in 2008
    LG: Wade Smith, in his 11th season and 6th team, was a 3rd Rd pick in 2003
    RT: Duane Brown, 26th pick in 2008

    The Texans run-blocking has been the best in football.
    If I am not mistaken, they also utilize the zone-blocking scheme.

    I think our success would be a lot better within the OL had we had Alex Gibbs, who really knows the ZBS.
    Gibbs & Kubiak know the ZBS inside-out. Not so for Campen.

    Thompson shouldn't be blamed here as he invested heavily at OT with Bulaga and Sherrod.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. SpartaChris
    Offline

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +963 / 25 / -9
    Perhaps your "hypothetical situation" can finagle a way for us to trade for Adrian Peterson, Megatron, and Patrick Willis too.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. 12theTruth
    Offline

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Nope, this thread is about Campen and the line. If we anyone we need offensive lineman. After all Rodgers is basically the farm. But if you think that you could swing one of those deals. Go for it. LOL
  15. SpartaChris
    Offline

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +963 / 25 / -9
    Sorry, perhaps I should have used a sarcasm font, or typed slower so you'd get it was a joke.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. 12theTruth
    Offline

    12theTruth Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    No need to. Couldn't you tell by the LOL at the end of my reply. Sarcasm noted :laugh:
  17. Sunshinepacker
    Offline

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    618
    Ratings:
    +222 / 25 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    If our oline coach was the problem then the players we let go would be getting better in other teams....that hasn't happened (and please nobody mention Giocamini, he's terrible, the Seahawks version of Newhouse)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,070
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,313 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    I think our pass blocking has looked decent this preseason; opponents don't seem to be blowing out the interior line and collapsing the pocket like last season. The run blocking was not terrible in the first two preseason game and after Rodgers left the game Seattle's front 7 was running all downhill against Harrell.

    I'd give it another game to see what's what, but without Rodgers in there it's an uphill climb.

    This is not going to be a good run blocking line...what we need is adequate.

    Some of the second team guys are pretty bad...Van Roten at center couldn't block anybody...snap, whiff.
  19. PackerFlatLander
    Offline

    PackerFlatLander Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    Bloomingdale, IL
    Ratings:
    +286 / 7 / -2
    Packer Fan Since:
    1982
    Campen was a mediocre player and is obviously not a good o-line coach. I miss Larry Bechtol - the o-line coach under Sherman. In my opinion, he's the best o-line coach we've had, in the past 30-some years. That screen game with Ahman Green was some serious bread-n-butter stuff. It was awesome. Bechtol should get the credit for that. Campen and his ZBS nonsense is crap.
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Einstein McFly
    Offline

    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    286
    Ratings:
    +177 / 9 / -1
    Packer Fan Since:
    1988

    Good post. McGinn had a great article a week or so ago listing the left tackles for the last half dozen super bowl winners, and they're nothing special. On the other hand, San Fran has built its line out of first rounders and they seem to be reaping the benefits, so while it can work, it certainly doesn't have to be that way to have a good running game. And yeah, it's not like anyone can be blamed for Sherrod and Bulaga being hurt.
  21. HyponGrey
    Offline

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,733
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Ratings:
    +1,022 / 55 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1998
    EDS has been manhandled all PS long, hate to tell you. Lang's hand speed dropped, and it's caused his game to slip a bit, but he and Sitton are still good. Barclay is going to get straight up beat by a lot of guys this year. If only Newhouse wasn't useless.
  22. Dan115
    Offline

    Dan115 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,626
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +429 / 33 / -31
    Packer Fan Since:
    1961
    They didn't cut Campen?
    • Old Old x 1
  23. HyponGrey
    Offline

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,733
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Ratings:
    +1,022 / 55 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1998
    I think fans need to learn move about what a ZBS does. You will never see a ZBS push. It's just the way the system works. We try to push sometimes because we employ some drive elements, usually on short downs. The one thing that separates our ZBS from every other ZBS in the league is that we don't cut block.
  24. Dan115
    Offline

    Dan115 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,626
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +429 / 33 / -31
    Packer Fan Since:
    1961
    Yes, The Broncos made ZBS famous.
  25. ThxJackVainisi
    Offline

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,783
    Ratings:
    +1,918 / 49 / -33
    I agree Beightol was great but anyone paying even a little attention knows the ZBS wasn't ever Campen's idea.

Share This Page