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Why is this happening?

Discussion in 'All Other Team Discussions' started by packedhouse01, Jul 17, 2008.

  1. packedhouse01
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    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    Brett Favre, perhaps the most revered player to ever where a Packer uniform retires, but says he was forced to retire. He decides he wants to come back and play after years of deciding he was ready to retire, or maybe he wasn't. Ted Thompson comes to town four years ago, and in a very short time rebuilds the team through astute drafting and between those players and Brett, gets us to one game of the Superbowl. These things just don't happen in Green Bay. Brett was set to be a Packer for life. He could have been an icon in Green Bay. What the hell happened?

    This has become so bizarre. Why is Brett so angry with the Packers? Why are the Packers so angry in return at Brett? We all know what has happened, that has been documented clearly on this board. What I want to know is why is this happening? It makes no sense to me in any way matter or means that this is happening and I'm not sure why there isn't an easy resolution to all of this. Or maybe things have gotten so bad that they can never be the same. One last question, why hasn't Ted Thompson flown to Brett or brought Brett to Green Bay and resolve this? What do both sides want and why has it come to this.
  2. Packnic
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    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Q. why did this happen?

    A. Ziggy Wilf spends his money more freely to build 8-8 teams and that apparently has made Brett decide he could be 100% committed. Ted Thompson wasn't making the right personnel moves to give us a chance to win... and I totally agree with Brett here. Because the records prove it.


    sucks to find out what you really mean to someone
  3. PackinSteel
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    PackinSteel Cheesehead

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    I have to say - I'd take a 75% committed Brett Favre over many of the QBs in the league today. How many players at any position can truly say they are 100% committed these days? Much less feel they can't play unless they are?

    What if they actually had won the SB last year? He retired and then changed his mind? It boggles my mind that the team can't simply say something like:

    "Ok Brett you've made your state of mind clear - on national TV now - so let's get down to some football. Aaron? He'll either wait or make his own decisions but let's win us a super bowl"

    Instead we have all this posturing and finger pointing and timelines and now tampering allegations.

    I am firmly in the "get Favre back on the team" camp. He is our best chance to win NOW. Management concerned about appearances will have a much easier time living with biting the bullet and reinstating Favre than if they don't.

    Will it happen? Sadly I don't believe so.
  4. DGB454
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    DGB454 Cheesehead

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    I think he truely wants to play with the Vikings. I think he has since his buddy from the Vikes started whispering in his ear.

    Why is this happening? Brett wants another shot at a SB and can't see the forest through the trees. His best chance at a SB run is with GB but he crapped where he ate. Now the only way out of it for him is to eat crap or get a release so he can join the Vikings (which is kind of like eating crap). If that happens I think he can kiss Packer world fandom goodbye forever.
  5. Packnic
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    Packnic Cheesehead

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    your still in the "get Favre back on the team" camp?? even after he wants to be released for the sole purpose of playing with the Vikings?

    he sold the Green Bay Packers out if the tampering charges turn out to be true... and i personally think its the first thing that has made sense since this **** started.
  6. ElleBlue
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    ElleBlue Cheesehead

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    I'm still in that camp too. We don't know when he started talking to the Vikes. If it was recently it was most definitely after he decided that the Pack no longer wants him. According to Favre, he "knew" the Pack didn't want him, since before he retired. Now, it is obvious they don't want him back, so he's scrambling for someplace to play. He is operating with tunnel vision right now. It seems he has his eyes fixed on his bottom line which is playing. I don't know the man personally, but this is how it seems to me and it also makes the most sense to me.
  7. digsthepack
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    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    He "knew" the team did not want him, even before he retired??

    Wow........the story, it just keeps on a changin'! Dude just adds **** as he goes....and continues to make an *** out of himself.

    So sad......
  8. evad04
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    evad04 Cheesehead

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    The more I think about it the more I am convinced that the most influential force in all this indecision is the almost limitless amount of Favre-love that SURROUNDS Brett 24/7/365. Looking at clips from other pro players from the ESPY Awards -- every last damn one of them (notwithstanding the responses from Packers players, especially Aaron Rodgers who laid it down!) basically said, "Favre is the best. He's a living legend. He should be able to do whatever he wants to do... blah blah blah" He hears the same thing from:

    1.) At least half of all talking heads and pundits think Favre should be traded (essentially what he wants)

    2.) His [LOUD] family. I have nothing against the Favres... I mean... I don't know them or anything. But they never seem to hold back on their view on things (which seems to echo that Packer management is at fault_

    3.) Legions of bleeding-heart Favre fans who attribute every ounce of success the Packers have ever had to his gunslingin', never-say-die attitude. Favre is MY favorite all-time player, but it's ridiculous to give him so much credit. He's done well to deflect a lot of the credit over the years -- something I've ALWAYS appreciated. But now, he's acting pretty much exclusively in his self-interest.

    He's surrounded by people saying he can do what he wants because he's earned it. Put yourself in that place... what do you do? What you want? I am ticked at Favre right now, but it would take one hell of a menschy person to not let all that praise get to their head.

    I think he's showing he's human. I ALSO think this shows that even us FANS are actively involved in how issues like this CAN spin out of control.

    That's all.

    I know everyone has posted their $.02 and this place has turned into the blame game/verbal diarrhea forum, but I guess I just hadn't heard many express this same perspective.
  9. boiga
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    boiga Cheesehead

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    The most likely time Favre started shopping around was back in May. Remember the rumors that Bus Cook was asking around the league about interest in Brett? This was also during the time period Brett was telling the Packers that he wasn't 100% committed to playing again. I'm not sure whether it was Brett or Bus that was two timing... but it's more than a little fishy.

    Also, I'm not sure that he knew that Packers didn't want him. Rather, for the first time ever, we didn't need him. Brett wants to be loved... but the Packers can only get down on their knees asking him back so many times.

    TT went down there begging the last two off seasons but didn't have to this year. So Brett feels jilted because we're not begging to have him back... Does that sound right to you?
  10. packedhouse01
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    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I just get the distinct impression that Favre is a guy that needs to feel the love all the time. I also get the feeling that Ted Thompson and even McCarthy just got tired of the retirement games and decided to call his bluff. I think they watned him back in worst way, but for whatever reason Brett felt the need to want more love and continued to play the game. I find it terribly interesting that a guy who has flirted with retirement for years now has this huge passion to continue playing. Someone else mentioned that he is hearing all these things in his favor from his player friends and that just fuels the problem. Ted Thompson was probably wrong in not nurturing 'Favre more, but I can also see why he would tire of the retirement baloney. That whole thing has just gotten old and I believe it was only a ploy to gain more love. You know, "Brett we need you to win, we love you," kind of thing.

    The problem, as I see it, is that there is this huge riff and no one talks directly to each other. If I were Brett I'd have gotten on the phone and asked Ted and Mike exactly what they think of me. If I were Ted I would have called Brett and said, "what are you needs buddy? what do we have to do to get you and keep you in a Packer uniform, because we can't let this happen to you or the franchise."

    So now it's out there and it is probably no longer repairable. I just think this is all such a senseless shame.
  11. Pack93z
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    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Why?

    1) I think there is some truth to Ted, telling Brett one thing and then comming out an saying another publicly.

    How:

    Brett Favre "Ted, talked to Randy, he is unhappy and would be love the chance to come to Green Bay."

    Ted Thompson - "Gee Brett, we will see where it goes, we all looking in all avenues to add the right players to the team."

    BF - "Well I would love to play with, an you know, I think it would really help the offense. I will restructure my deal if need be to make it happen."

    TT - "Well Brett, the Raiders want this, Randy wants to get out of town and there are other parties involved." Thinking, Randy has been a cancer in the past, don't want that element in Green Bay, but doesn't tell Brett this angle.

    Pats step in, get Moss on the cheap and Randy uses Brett and the Packers as a leverage tool in the meantime. The great communicator, Ted comes out and says little to nothing on the Moss deal, and denies Brett was involved.. basically down playing the Packers overall interest, Brett takes it as another shot personally and as a team gone by.

    All this equals, what is apparent each and every time Ted speaks, he is a poor public speaker and that probably carries over into other forms of communication, not a rip, but he seems more like an introvert in nature. I can relate.. I suck at speaking my thoughts, but that doesn't mean my intentions and decisions aren't sound.

    2) Brett probably does feel Thompson has been less than forthright, see above as how it may happen. Then look at what has gone on around Brett, every single player he had a connection to in the glory years, they are gone, retired or elsewhere.. it happens, but I think Brett was too close to see that most of those loses needed to happen. Teams and players age, schemes change, principles in the decisions making change.

    Being so connected for 16 years, I guarantee Brett felt a sense of ownership to the team. Loyalty to those around him, but there lies a truth that some have found in this league via a dual role GM/HC. Those coaches and long time players become personally invested in relationships with other players, it clouds their judgement to a sense of what might be best for the team. In other words, they start to have favorites among the players, guys they trust or think can do little wrong despite failing skills or fit.

    So as players exit and players that Brett thinks would help or might have a bond to Brett leave or get passed by, Brett sees it as a personal issue, not a for the overall betterment of the team so to speak. And it sits there and grinds on the player, he says something to vent to those closest to him, but puts on the team united front for the press, like he should and because Brett is loyal to the bone.

    This explains the leaks comming from the south.. most noteably, Cook himself, family and teammates he trusts with this personal thoughts.

    It also explains, why a simple, "Hey Brett, we kind of need an idea of what you are doing before the draft." turns into a they are pushing me, in other words, Brett has habored and built up issues for the past couple of years... they have been building and intensiving in nature.. so then June rolls around and "We have moved forward" becomes, they don't want me anymore thoughts.. stringed together by a bunch of feelings habored for the past couple of years.


    So in the end, it really comes down to, IMO, a poor rapport between Brett and GM Ted.. lack of effective communication and passing of ones thoughts to another effectively. Happens all the time in this world. Brett was always included or at the very least asked his opinion in relationships of the past, Wolf, Holmgren, Sherman.. they all valued his opinion and made sure that he was at least in the loop so to speak with regards to personnel decisions that affected the team greatly.. hell it was Brett's right arm and moxy that attracted Reggie White here.. Brett was is well respected around the game.. so it made sense to endear yourself to over communicating to Brett.. probably to much.

    In comes introverted in nature Ted, plays his cards close to his vest and isn't one to speak his thoughts. Brett sees this as personal, when in reality it is just Ted's style, his "way".

    And it finally boiled over.. the years of miscommunication and contrasts in styles and approach.. festering into one ugly mess in this offseason.

    IMO.. that is why or how we got here.. details not withstanding..
  12. Packnic
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    Packnic Cheesehead

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    I agree that this all came about because Brett and TT have a riff. and thats fine. in my opinion though... Brett has no ground here. TT is the GM and bottom line whatever he says goes. I dont care how long a player plays here... you dont just get to make decisions based on your tenure.

    also, Ted has only had problems with 2 players... Javon Walker and Brett Favre..... interesting i think.
  13. PackinSteel
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    PackinSteel Cheesehead

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    W/o quoting the entire post I'd like to say very well thought out Pack93. A breakdown in communication pure and simple.
  14. digsthepack
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    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    So, what you are saying is that TT should disclose to the public, and all the other teams, exactly what discussions were had about player/personnel moves. Hell, call me crazy, but most teams keep this stuff close to the vest.

    And to think, all TT did was surrount Brett with one of the most talented WR group, top to bottom, in the league. For shame, Teddy, for shame!!

    Face it, Brett has grown too big, in his own mind, to limit himself to playing the lowly QB position for one of the most storied franchises, and for some of the most loyal fans, in sports.

    You know, it is one thing to be in a position to offer input on personnel with your GM....quite another to believe the man is somehow obligated to act on your input.
  15. Pack93z
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    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    But looking back, the Packers created this mess before Ted even stepped foot into the front office.. they brought Brett in too deep, which happens with alot of great players. The are given a sense of entitlement so to speak.. so when Ted walks into the building.. with a more reserved style, one can easily see how or why Brett took it personal.


    First, for all we know, these are the only two that have spoken about it.. don't know how others feel about Thompson's approach or whatnot.

    Second, look at both situations, Javon was communicated with by Sherman that his deal would be addressed, in the meantime, Ted walks in and doesn't honor what MS had communicated. Javon takes it completely personal with Thompson and it blows up.

    Brett's view is in a parrell, where he has taken the business personal.

    I think it really is a contrast in style that Ted has to say a Sherman, Wolf or Holmgren.. not saying it isn't effective.. just different culture so to speak.

    We all know the GM is the play caller for the overall team, just believe that past practice towards Brett was different... more open so to speak. Listen to the part of the interview where Brett say we don't sit down, have a meal together and shoot the breeze.. think back to Holmgren's days.. they had a weekly lunch.. sometime Wolf was part.. Sherman and Brett has a strong rapport.. probably driven by Favre in nature.

    So wham.. it changes and Brett is no longer a sounding board to speak and he took it personal instead of probably understanding Ted's demeanor in nature. They lies the root of the friction, IMO.

    ** EDIT.. and no that doesn't make Brett right, just one can see how we got here..** Brett was hand held far to long in Green Bay, it changed and he didn't like it.
  16. Packnic
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    Packnic Cheesehead

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    no i agree with you, that its a different style and maybe not the best for a superstar like Favre. and maybe Ted should coddle him a bit more.

    but lets be honest, when Ted was hired Brett wasn't lighting the world on fire. and people like me and you with our heads on straight could understand how Ted might not think that Favre should be part of the future plans. I just mean that when Ted came in i think it was apparent that Favre was on his way out. It just so happens that Favre hung around and had a hell of a season when the team improved.

    But again... hes 38 will be 39. Its gonna happen sometime and we did everything we could to ease the transition and apparently Favre didn't like it.

    I think we can agree that one major problem is that Favre got too much power. and i think we can agree that he doesn't need any power except on that football field.
  17. Pack93z
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    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    No, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen in the past.



    Whether it is his ego has grown or he is too involved, too committed to the franchise to bring his visions to the bigger picture, which is the long term health of the Packers.. but you are right he, IMO, did over step his bounds so to speak.
  18. boiga
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    boiga Cheesehead

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    That's actually a really good point Pack93z.

    People also seem to be forgetting how much better relations between players and management has been of late with TT in charge. Think of all the veterans who have been able to quietly approach Ted and ask to be paid their value over the last two years.

    Had Brett gotten his way on the personnel decisions, we wouldn't have had the cap room available to accommodate Harris, Driver, Barnett, Kampman and the rest like we did. The vets aren't going to be effected by Brett's comments because TT has done good by them.

    If it weren't for this cushion of good will between players and the brass, I'd be a lot more worried about Brett's effect on locker room morale than I am.
  19. Pack93z
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    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Agreed, and one can see why Brett has taken it sooo personal, because of the years it was so different.

    In retrospect, one can see how appropriate the nick "Lord Favre" really was..

    Not blamming another.. just you can see how we got here.. which by the way, sucks complete arse.

    But at least we are dragging the Vikes into it as well. :lol:
  20. Mr_Bumpy
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    Mr_Bumpy Cheesehead

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    Pack93z,

    Probably the best post I've ever read on these forums. I think you've hit the nail right on the head. I also believe that a lot of people are overlooking the contribution that Bus Cook may be making to this whole mess. I have a feeling he's pulling a lot more strings than we may be aware of.
  21. Packnic
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    Packnic Cheesehead

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    here, here. If the Vikings are hurt in anyway by this... it might be worth it. haha
  22. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    I know, who would have thought a couple days ago we might be taking some of their draft picks or something. Ha!

    (plus a draft pick or 2 if we trade favre. Hooray draft picks!)
  23. ElleBlue
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    ElleBlue Cheesehead

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    Good post, Pack93z. This does sum up how we got in the state that we're in. One thing led to another and now we've got a big mess that no one can fix. Neither party will swallow their pride and reverse or revise the decisions they made.
  24. ElleBlue
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    ElleBlue Cheesehead

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    That's true. I forgot about the Bus. He is quietly lurking while the poo hits the fan!
  25. Mr_Bumpy
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    Mr_Bumpy Cheesehead

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    He doesn't want to get hit by poo...

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