Why I disapprove of the job TT is doing

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Packnic

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ok so mike sherman fields a team that goes 4-12 because ONE player goes down.

TT builds a team with depth and goes 8-8 and he deserves to be fired?
 

packerfan1245

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hoos said:
digs, if you read my post, I am criticizing TT's action this offseason. I may not have been clear enough on this. There is no doubt that the roster was aging in 2004, and we needed some young talent. My point is that we should be done with that phase by now. We didn't need to gut the entire roster and put in a 6 year plan. We could have taken another shot by next year IMO.


Agreed, it's time to take the training wheel off Ted. It's time to win.

You can say that Ted was left with nothing but lets be real. The key guys on this team are guys Ted inherited.

Driver
Favre
KGB
Kampman
Wells
Harris
Barnett
Walker
Williams
Tauscher
Clifton
Green
Henderson

Thats not a BARE CUPBOARD coming in. For the most part its the same reason Ted's getting the few wins he does. Take away those guys and field Ted's stellar team once and see where we are




He is doing a good job I think...
 

DakotaT

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I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.
 
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hoos

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ok so mike sherman fields a team that goes 4-12 because ONE player goes down.

TT builds a team with depth and goes 8-8 and he deserves to be fired?

I don't think he deserves to be fired yet. However, I also reserve the right to disapprove of what he is doing.

In my mind, this is a critical year, if the team shows improvement in the win column, then we are progressing and I'll give TT more time, if we regress however, to say 5-7 wins, can his *** or at least give it serious consideration.

If he is doing such a great job like a lot of you think he is, that shouldn't be that hard, right?
 

cheesey

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warhawk said:
I love how Pyle and others CREDITS MS for a 10-6 year in '04 but puts all the blame for 4-12 on TT when MS was still the HC and 95% of the players were HIS GUYS.

You want to elude to TT surrounding MS's good players left over with "NFL EUROPE" talent when in reality he had NO CHOICE but to play Digg's, Lenon, Carroll, and a horshit "D" line which were all the OTHER guys from the MS era you don't want to talk about.

TT didn't have any MONEY or an opportunity to effect any significant changes in personnel until '06 and all of this is documented on the rosters of these two years.

What's ironic is that when the chance to effect change presented itself TT immediately began shedding the roster of "europe guys" for the Woodsons, Hawks, Picketts, etc.

The thing that TT haters like Pyle and others will NEVER publicly recognize is that during a time of change over and I'm talking about replacing the "old guard" offensive line with new guys which is a very difficult task, TT went EIGHT AND EIGHT.

Eight and eight during a time when the entire middle of the "0" line has gone from old to new and a time when our defense went from seriously **** poor to one most teams won't want to face.

Just as importantly this team went from old to young and the core of this team is set for years to come with no issues of flight risks robbing our talent pool anytime soon.

Some here also want people to believe that young players that have shown they can hold their own against much more experienced guys "doesn't mean they will get better". Yeah right. Like I'm going to bite into that one.

This team is going to be better in '07 because the players BROUGHT UP THRU THE SYSTEM are gaining experience and will produce at a higher level than the previous year.

That is the SYSTEM people here have eluded to that has worked so prolifically for other teams. It's called the "your dreaming if you think two or three guys can fix it" system.

I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency
Wahle was still good, but Rivera was done. Thats ONE player that he let go, the other was physically finished.
To me it looked like a plan. If you have to retool one side, might as well do both and get it over with. Now the O-line is young and barring injury should be good for many years to come.
JMHO
 

DakotaT

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This thread has a lot of arguments about years flowing into each other and who's players played in which year. I want take a time out from that and take you guys back to the 2004 GB defense. I hate talking about it because it was the most pathetic excuse of a D, I have ever seen in GB. If any of you painfully remember, the opposition could score as easily from their 20 as the GB 20.

Enter TT, through the draft and free agency, TT has transformed that defense with the likes of Hunt, Carroll, Diggs, Navies, Sharper, Hawkins, and Gravy; and replaced them with formidable players. Yes, Barnett, Kampmann, and Harris are left from Sherman (way to go Mike).

Now, Lare, Pyle, Hoos, etc. can you guys please, please for the love of God and everyone's sanity; acknowledge that TT has rebuilt a defense that can actually get off the field without allowing a score.

This was my attempt at peacemaking for the 2007 season. Carry on gentleman and lovely ladies of the forum.
 

cheesey

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Good point Dakota......the D IS greatly improved.
But i guess if it doesn't score TD's it's of no consequence to some people here.
 
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hoos

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This thread has a lot of arguments about years flowing into each other and who's players played in which year. I want take a time out from that and take you guys back to the 2004 GB defense. I hate talking about it because it was the most pathetic excuse of a D, I have ever seen in GB. If any of you painfully remember, the opposition could score as easily from their 20 as the GB 20.

Enter TT, through the draft and free agency, TT has transformed that defense with the likes of Hunt, Carroll, Diggs, Navies, Sharper, Hawkins, and Gravy; and replaced them with formidable players. Yes, Barnett, Kampmann, and Harris are left from Sherman (way to go Mike).

Now, Lare, Pyle, Hoos, etc. can you guys please, please for the love of God and everyone's sanity; acknowledge that TT has rebuilt a defense that can actually get off the field without allowing a score.

This was my attempt at peacemaking for the 2007 season. Carry on gentleman and lovely ladies of the forum.

The defense has improved, but it was still 25th in scoring last year and at times looked clueless. If the young players contiue to progress, we will be in decent shape.

My main concern is that without the proper mix of draft and FA, we won't reach the end goal which is the Super Bowl. I don't want to win games, I want to win Super Bowls.
 

dhpackr

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dhpackr said:
I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.

Then read the article
 

DakotaT

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DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.

Then read the article

I did, but it never talks about the costs of spending into the future. Do you think the Redskins are the poster children for building a team? The cap was out of control and don't some of you recognize the TT was under orders to get control of the cap.
 

dhpackr

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dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.

Then read the article

I did, but it never talks about the costs of spending into the future. Do you think the Redskins are the poster children for building a team? The cap was out of control and don't some of you recognize the TT was under orders to get control of the cap.

I know the Packers went 10-6 in '04. We had a 1000 yrd WR, 1000 yrd Rb, HOF QB, Pro-bowl TE. and a decent line that was gelling. Now that WRer is gone, and GJ is no replacement for J-Walk. two Gaurds from that team were never even offered any type of deal, the team was awful in '05. the RB is gone, and sooner or later the blame has to fall somewhere. Not only is TT unable to keep his key players, but he is unable to replace the talent he loses, whether it be through free agency or the draft.
 

tromadz

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DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.

Then read the article

I did, but it never talks about the costs of spending into the future. Do you think the Redskins are the poster children for building a team? The cap was out of control and don't some of you recognize the TT was under orders to get control of the cap.
Not only is TT unable to keep his key players, but he is unable to replace the talent he loses, whether it be through free agency or the draft.


I dont know where to start.

Do I start by saying he re-signed Driver,Kampman,Barnett?

Or do I start by telling him he 'replaced' holes through free agency and the draft, using Woodson over Carroll and Hawk over Diggs as examples.

Ya know, I think i'll just laugh this one off.

:rotflmao:
 

dhpackr

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dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.

Then read the article

I did, but it never talks about the costs of spending into the future. Do you think the Redskins are the poster children for building a team? The cap was out of control and don't some of you recognize the TT was under orders to get control of the cap.
Not only is TT unable to keep his key players, but he is unable to replace the talent he loses, whether it be through free agency or the draft.


I dont know where to start.

Do I start by saying he re-signed Driver,Kampman,Barnett?

Or do I start by telling him he 'replaced' holes through free agency and the draft, using Woodson over Carroll and Hawk over Diggs as examples.

Ya know, I think i'll just laugh this one off.

:rotflmao:

yeah, b/c it takes a great mind to sign Driver,Kampman,Barnett
why wouldn't you sign these guys, its a no brainer
 

tromadz

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tromadz said:
dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.

Then read the article

I did, but it never talks about the costs of spending into the future. Do you think the Redskins are the poster children for building a team? The cap was out of control and don't some of you recognize the TT was under orders to get control of the cap.
Not only is TT unable to keep his key players, but he is unable to replace the talent he loses, whether it be through free agency or the draft.


I dont know where to start.

Do I start by saying he re-signed Driver,Kampman,Barnett?

Or do I start by telling him he 'replaced' holes through free agency and the draft, using Woodson over Carroll and Hawk over Diggs as examples.

Ya know, I think i'll just laugh this one off.

:rotflmao:

yeah, b/c it takes a great mind to sign Driver,Kampman,Barnett
why wouldn't you sign these guys, its a no brainer

What you just did there was awesome. You downplayed explosive situations. The Barnett thing could have gone so wrong and ended so badly. Driver was supposedly very vocal about his pay behind the scenes.

But when TT does something good, its just an easy no brainer.

Nice.
 

dhpackr

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dhpackr said:
tromadz said:
dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.

Then read the article

I did, but it never talks about the costs of spending into the future. Do you think the Redskins are the poster children for building a team? The cap was out of control and don't some of you recognize the TT was under orders to get control of the cap.
Not only is TT unable to keep his key players, but he is unable to replace the talent he loses, whether it be through free agency or the draft.


I dont know where to start.

Do I start by saying he re-signed Driver,Kampman,Barnett?

Or do I start by telling him he 'replaced' holes through free agency and the draft, using Woodson over Carroll and Hawk over Diggs as examples.

Ya know, I think i'll just laugh this one off.

:rotflmao:

yeah, b/c it takes a great mind to sign Driver,Kampman,Barnett
why wouldn't you sign these guys, its a no brainer

What you just did there was awesome. You downplayed explosive situations. The Barnett thing could have gone so wrong and ended so badly. Driver was supposedly very vocal about his pay behind the scenes.

But when TT does something good, its just an easy no brainer.

Nice.

:thumbsup:
 

IronMan

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Now, Lare, Pyle, Hoos, etc. can you guys please, please for the love of God and everyone's sanity; acknowledge that TT has rebuilt a defense that can actually get off the field without allowing a score.
.
We were 25th in scoring defense last year.
 

bozz_2006

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dhpacker, you first said that TT is unable to keep his key players, then someone gave you an example of him doing exactly that. then you say it was a no-brainer signing those guys. what does it being a no-brainer decision have to do with his ability to successfully pull off that no-brainer?
 

DakotaT

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DakotaT said:
Now, Lare, Pyle, Hoos, etc. can you guys please, please for the love of God and everyone's sanity; acknowledge that TT has rebuilt a defense that can actually get off the field without allowing a score.
.
We were 25th in scoring defense last year.

And twelve overall. that's just a tad better then the Slowik defense wouldn't you say?
 

DakotaT

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DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
DakotaT said:
dhpackr said:
I blame the 4-12 season on TT letting two all pro G go to free agency

Was there any money left to sign them, and if so please show us how that would have been accomplished? As your proof, please don't rehash Pyle's article about Brandt saying it "could have been done." I would finally like someone to show me how Wahle, Rivera, and Darlene could have been kept.

Then read the article

I did, but it never talks about the costs of spending into the future. Do you think the Redskins are the poster children for building a team? The cap was out of control and don't some of you recognize the TT was under orders to get control of the cap.

I know the Packers went 10-6 in '04. We had a 1000 yrd WR, 1000 yrd Rb, HOF QB, Pro-bowl TE. and a decent line that was gelling. Now that WRer is gone, and GJ is no replacement for J-Walk. two Gaurds from that team were never even offered any type of deal, the team was awful in '05. the RB is gone, and sooner or later the blame has to fall somewhere. Not only is TT unable to keep his key players, but he is unable to replace the talent he loses, whether it be through free agency or the draft.


The could score, wow. But could they defend? Also they only beat one quality team all year. They 04 Packers were comparable to the Don Coryell Chargers of the 80's. Not a lot of hardware produced by those boys.
 
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hoos

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MidwestFavreFan said:
DakotaT said:
Now, Lare, Pyle, Hoos, etc. can you guys please, please for the love of God and everyone's sanity; acknowledge that TT has rebuilt a defense that can actually get off the field without allowing a score.
.
We were 25th in scoring defense last year.

And twelve overall. that's just a tad better then the Slowik defense wouldn't you say?

Now it's fun with statistics time! If you want to go by yards allowed, they were 7th in 2005 when we went 4-12 with basically the same personnel as 2004. This is attributable to coaching. You're right, Slowik was a bad DC. However, we had the fix in Bates and then we let him get away because MM was such a paramount hire.
 

DakotaT

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DakotaT said:
MidwestFavreFan said:
DakotaT said:
Now, Lare, Pyle, Hoos, etc. can you guys please, please for the love of God and everyone's sanity; acknowledge that TT has rebuilt a defense that can actually get off the field without allowing a score.
.
We were 25th in scoring defense last year.

And twelve overall. that's just a tad better then the Slowik defense wouldn't you say?

Now it's fun with statistics time! If you want to go by yards allowed, they were 7th in 2005 when we went 4-12 with basically the same personnel as 2004. This is attributable to coaching. You're right, Slowik was a bad DC. However, we had the fix in Bates and then we let him get away because MM was such a paramount hire.

Hoos, I can't argue with Bates being a good coach. He got maximum effort from those boys and they in were in just about every game because of it. I don't agree that he is head coach material, and apparantly neither do any of the owners around the league.
 

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I hate TT because he does not have an effervescent persona in front of cameras. I am quite positive this aspect of his personality has had significant negative impact on his ability to evaluate talent!!

Damn, I wish he was more bubbly.

Back on topic, people. We are dissing TT dammit!
 

warhawk

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dhpackr wrote:

I know the Packers went 10-6 in '04. We had a 1000 yrd WR, 1000 yrd Rb, HOF QB, Pro-bowl TE. and a decent line that was gelling. Now that WRer is gone, and GJ is no replacement for J-Walk. two Gaurds from that team were never even offered any type of deal, the team was awful in '05. the RB is gone, and sooner or later the blame has to fall somewhere. Not only is TT unable to keep his key players, but he is unable to replace the talent he loses, whether it be through free agency or the draft.
[/quote]

Were you here in '05 by the way?

That 1000 yard WR got hurt in the first game. That 1000 yard RB got hurt as well as did the next guy and the next guy and the next guy. Our All-Pro TE hasn't played like one for how long now?

As if all the injuries were not enough to overcome he was saddled with Roman, Carroll, Digg's, Lenon, and, a horshit DL. If he can't replace players how did Woodson, Pickett, Hawk, Poppinga, Jenkins, and others, end up here and those others are gone?

So all the offensive threats got hurt and our defense sucked but if we had kept that one guard, by god, we would have done better!!!

Wow.

I need the name of doctors some of you guys use. They are subscribing some awfully powerful mind altering drugs.
 

PackerLegend

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dhpackr wrote:

I know the Packers went 10-6 in '04. We had a 1000 yrd WR, 1000 yrd Rb, HOF QB, Pro-bowl TE. and a decent line that was gelling. Now that WRer is gone, and GJ is no replacement for J-Walk. two Gaurds from that team were never even offered any type of deal, the team was awful in '05. the RB is gone, and sooner or later the blame has to fall somewhere. Not only is TT unable to keep his key players, but he is unable to replace the talent he loses, whether it be through free agency or the draft.

Were you here in '05 by the way?

That 1000 yard WR got hurt in the first game. That 1000 yard RB got hurt as well as did the next guy and the next guy and the next guy. Our All-Pro TE hasn't played like one for how long now?

As if all the injuries were not enough to overcome he was saddled with Roman, Carroll, Digg's, Lenon, and, a horshit DL. If he can't replace players how did Woodson, Pickett, Hawk, Poppinga, Jenkins, and others, end up here and those others are gone?

So all the offensive threats got hurt and our defense sucked but if we had kept that one guard, by god, we would have done better!!!

Wow.

I need the name of doctors some of you guys use. They are subscribing some awfully powerful mind altering drugs.

:rotflmao: :agree:
 
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