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Why I disapprove of the job TT is doing

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by hoos, May 2, 2007.

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  1. hoos
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    hoos Cheesehead

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    Although I do not feel that TT is the worst GM in the league, I must say that I am very disappointed in his very conservative and patience-filled method of building the roster. The reason I feel this way because I think that he is taking the wrong approach with the roster he has inherited. While his methods of building through the draft may provide a winning team in the next 2-3 years, I believe that he has wasted the franchises best chance at winning a Super Bowl with Favre.

    Now, I do not want to give off the impression that we owe it to Favre to take one last chance while he is the QB. Brett is a member of the team just like anyone else, and deserves no special rash treatment just to let him go out a winner. However, I also feel franchise QBs like Brett only come around every so often, and when you are fortunate enough to have one, common sense dictates that you must utilize this asset to the fullest. While it is true that a great QB is not necessary to win a Super Bowl, those that have accomplished that feat have done so with great if not historic defenses (Baltimore and Trent Dilfer). Therefore, although I believe that Defense may win games, without a good if not great quarterback, it will not win championships.

    As such, I propose what TT should have done. He should have been aggressive towards adding a few players either through trades (Moss) or free agency (Thomas) to bolster the lineup and put them in contender status. While many on this board claim we are not 2 or 3 players away from winning the Super Bowl, it is hard to argue that we are not 2 or 3 of the right players away from being contenders.

    Historically this is a very similar situation to the 1995 Denver Broncos. In 1995, the Broncos had a decent roster with a good core of young players with a legendary QB and managed to go 8-8. They added Alfred Williams and Bill Romanowski and blossomed to a 13-3 team. The next year, they added Keith Traylor, Neil Smith, and Tony Jones as starters and they won the Super Bowl.

    Our team could have mirrored this success. If we had added a couple of playmakers to the offense, I could easily see this team blossoming to 10-13 wins and whetting Brett’s appetite enough to come back and try one more time for the Super Bowl, it worked with Elway. We have young players that may be ready for breakouts on offense (Jennings, and one of the backs) just like Davis and Smith did for the Broncos. We also have a young promising defense with a solid line and a good group of young LBs.

    Let me finish this post by stating that I do not hate TT, I simply am disappointed in his methods. I feel that he is squandering the opportunity to win a championship with (not for) Brett and for his sake, I hope that he is able to find another QB that is capable of winning a Super Bowl.
  2. Pack93z
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    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Very well put and I agree with premise of the post.
  3. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    And really, that's all that matters, right?

    I love Favre, but I thought I heard Roger Goodell say "With the 16th pick of the 2007 NFL draft, the Green Bay Packers select" not "The Green Bay Favres"

    If Brett takes care of himself, there's no reason he can't go another 2-3 years, which is when this team should be superbowl ready.

    I swear we've had this debate multiple times. Do we sacrifice the future(Hi Mike Sherman) for a chance(it IS a chance, not gauranteed[hi mike]) to make a superbowl run with Favre? We've had playoff teams when going that route. A lot of flash, not much substance or depth when we got to the playoffs.

    But it is a difference of opinion I guess. You think GB is superbowl bound if we get Favre big flashy weapons with potential attitude problems, and GB's scouts,coaches and GM think they can get there by building a young core of studs, depth, and defense.
  4. digsthepack
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    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    The Green Bay Packers are larger than Brett Favre...hate to break it to you!! As much as I love the guy, the first responsibility of any GM is to improve the present, and future, status of the team. Exactly what TT is doing.

    Favre came back knowing what was going on. If he is cool with it, why are some of you so bent out of shape?
  5. hoos
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    hoos Cheesehead

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    Three things trom,

    1. I said it "may" produce a winning team.
    2. I don't want "winning teams", I want Super Bowls
    3. I tried to make it very clear that we are not the Green Bay Favres, but simply that Favre gives us the best chance at winning a Super Bowl.
  6. hoos
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    hoos Cheesehead

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    Please tell me how I stated that Favre was bigger than the team. I don't see it in my post.
  7. Packnic
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    Packnic Cheesehead

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    i dont think hes saying do it For favre... hes saying do it BECAUSE of Favre


    theres a difference. and i understand what hes saying.


    i just think that rather than adding Free Agents that may be trouble or ruin us in the long run. that adding a great defense and amping up special teams.... while all along adding bit by bit to the offense is the best way to go about it.im tellin you ... nothing is gonna help favre out more than knowing he doesnt have to throw an interception trying to win a ball game.

    weve seen it. less interceptions from favre = more wins for GB.
    when does he throw picks??? when hes down more than 3 points.

    solve that problem, welcome more wins. just how i see it, thats all.
  8. all about da packers
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    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I hear ya hoos with the Favre bit.

    I grew up watching Favre, and by gosh I want the dude to go out on top.

    The thing that I am banking my hat on, is that while we may be able to immediately compete with Favre, it won't be more than a 2-3 year deal.

    If TT rebuilds, I'm expecting to be a contender for at least a 6-7 year period.

    That is why I'm willing to (with much regret) overlook the present, and getting Favre the Superbowl he deserves.
  9. digsthepack
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    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    OK...with Favre, not for Favre. Clarity is good.

    Look at the roster TT inherited.

    Defense:

    Line: A few nice players, but nobody that stood out. Workmanlike at best.

    Linebackers: Nick Barnett and nobody else.

    Secondary: An aging Darren Sharper, Mark "Matador" Roman as safeties. Ahmad "Holding" Carroll and Al Harris at corner. One decent starter and the backups sucked as well.

    Offense:

    Line: Aging/injured and contractually difficult re-sign in the form of Rivera and Wahle. Flanagan was a medical miracle in decline, and the tackles were and still are one of the better tandems in the league. Zero depth.

    WR: Walker and Driver were/are standouts. Fergie perpetually injured. Nobody else.

    TE: Bubba and nobody.

    RB: An injured and obviously in decline AG...still a decent player, but nowhere near where he was in years prior. Najeh "Injury waiting to happen...and they always do" Davenport and nobody else.

    FB: An aging warrior and Packer HOFer in Big Will, and the ever obese backup Nick Luche.

    QB: Nothing needs to be said.

    Does that roster look like something that was "a few players away" from competing for the SB? No, it does not if you are honest with yourself. We eeked out games in a **** division and prolonged the inevitable rebuilding/retooling that we are now going through.
  10. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    We may not win a SB by bringing in big name guys, however where is the guarantee that this method is going to result in a SB?

    If not it seems we wasted 6-7 years for nothing.
  11. Pack93z
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    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    To be fair, lets look two or three years out... we have 2 OT that will be on the downside of there career. We have 2 starting corners, yes not "handsMacCarrol", that will probably lost a step or a couple.

    Look how long it took us to get quality tackles and corners. You will always have to re-load, so why not go for broke now?
  12. wils0646
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    wils0646 Cheesehead

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    There's no guarantee about any type of method. But it seems building through the draft (IMO) is the best way to get depth for a Super Bowl run. It's all a matter of opinion. We'll see if New England bought themselves a Super Bowl this year. But they still got many of their core guys from the draft.
  13. PackerLegend
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    PackerLegend Cheesehead

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    our best chances for superbowl was in the Sherman era, we had a good team but Sherman couldnt get us there playoffs and out every year. Shermans drafting set this team back even farther anyways ill probably get bashed by people who for some reason love Sherman, but based on what he did I think he sucked period.
  14. hoos
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    hoos Cheesehead

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    digs, if you read my post, I am criticizing TT's action this offseason. I may not have been clear enough on this. There is no doubt that the roster was aging in 2004, and we needed some young talent. My point is that we should be done with that phase by now. We didn't need to gut the entire roster and put in a 6 year plan. We could have taken another shot by next year IMO.
  15. Pack93z
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    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    AGREED :)
  16. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Agreed, it's time to take the training wheel off Ted. It's time to win.

    You can say that Ted was left with nothing but lets be real. The key guys on this team are guys Ted inherited.

    Driver
    Favre
    KGB
    Kampman
    Wells
    Harris
    Barnett
    Walker
    Williams
    Tauscher
    Clifton
    Green
    Henderson

    Thats not a BARE CUPBOARD coming in. For the most part its the same reason Ted's getting the few wins he does. Take away those guys and field Ted's stellar team once and see where we are
  17. warhawk
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    warhawk Cheesehead

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    When a new GM walks thru the door they have the responsibility of determining exactly where their new team is in every aspect of the game including:

    1)contract wise
    2)money wise
    3)talent wise
    4)depth wise
    5)coaching wise

    What I have seen from TT is a guy that clearly saw the lack of talent and depth on this team and saw the aging nucleus of core players on the roster whose contracts were drawing to a close.

    The talent on the defense was a joke and had to be addressed position by position and there were contract issues with aging vets on the "0" line and very little money to do much with.

    I have been hearing for TWO YEARS now from some that say "we're just two, three players away". C'mon guys! Get real here.

    Maybe NOW we are approaching that position but look at ALL THE MOVES that have had to happen to get to this point.

    We actually have a defensive unit that can compete in a playoff game. We're not so weak in some area a good playoff team would rip us a new one.

    That's taken what, something like Eight SIGNIFICANT PLAYER moves to happen?

    At the time, as hard as it was to swallow, the "0" line had to start the breakup. We had older guys who wanted more money that we didn't have to spend and as it has turned out moving Wahle, Rivera, and Flanny has put us closer to where we need to be than trying to hold that group together somehow.

    So the transition away from those guys and also Green and Henderson took it's inevitable course.

    Now TT is replacing non-playoff talent personnel in the likes of Digg's and Lenon, Carroll and an atrocious interior D line(we stunk bad there) while also having to take on replacing the aging core group as they fall off the roster.

    So now we finally have a defense that can hold it's own(it's only been how many years?) a young offensive line that can stay together for years like the last great line we had but.......

    ......that god dang TT hasn't gotten those TWO or THREE guys we need to get us in the playoffs!

    My take on this is if you don't have a defense, or, if you don't have an offensive line why bother with those TWO OR THREE GUYS everyone is always talking about.

    Is it that TT is incompetent and incapable of building a good football team or is it that the mountain was so high getting to the point we need those TWO OR THREE good men to make a run has taken awhile to get to?
  18. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Why I approve of the job TT is doing

    Yeah. That should piss off the Favre-Firsters more than anything. I know that's one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of Sherman.

    But now it's rebuilding time.

    2005 - Keep the boat afloat. Begin the long process of getting rid of bad\overpaid players. Start building through the draft(Collins, Poppinga) and a few free agent pickups (Herron, Dendy).

    2005 Record: 4-12

    2006 - Really purge sherman's errors and bad contracts (Cutting Carroll, but there are still some bad contracts on the team. KGB). Bringing in a new coach(McCarthy) and offensive scheme while keeping the same defensive scheme(Sanders). Continue building through the draft (Hawk, Jennings, Colledge) and a few free agent pickups (Woodson, Pickett). An overlooked aspect is keeping and re-signing key players (Driver extension, Kampman re-signed).

    2006 Record: 8-8

    2007 - Nearing the end of most of the bad contracts, re-signing key players on the roster is more cap-friendly(Barnett). Continue building through draft(Harrell,etc. We'll see who steps up) and a few free agent pickups (Walker, we'll see. Time left). There is still time left in free agency and whatnot to complete this section.


    Basically, as much as we want to see GB win every game, every superbowl, this is still somewhat early in a rebuilding process that was NEEDED due to previous regimes. Sherman tried. Didn't work, which sucks cuz it also put the Packers in cap\roster hell.

    2007\08 should really start to show what this team is going to become, and SERIOUS playoff runs(not sherman playoff runs) should be coming around 09\2010.

    That's my take on things, why I APPROVE of the job TT is doing.

    I just hope if Favre does decide to retire soon(after this year) that GB and it's scouts\coaches\GM can find a replacement who can do well(not BE favre, nobody can, but someone who won't lose games for us.)
  19. PackerLegend
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    PackerLegend Cheesehead

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    we have

    QB
    Aaron Rodgers
    Ingle Martin

    HB
    Vernand Morency
    Noah Herron
    Brandon Jackson
    DeShawn Wynn

    FB
    Brandon Miree

    WR
    Greg Jennings
    Ruvell Martin
    Carlyle Holiday
    James Jones
    David Clowney

    O-LINE
    Jason Spitz
    Daryn Colledge
    Tony Moll
    Allen Barbre

    DT
    Justin Harrell
    Ryan Pickett
    Johnny Jolly

    DE
    Michael Montgomery
    Jason Hunter

    OLB
    A.J. Hawk
    Brady Poppinga
    Tracy White

    ILB
    Abdul Hodge
    Desmond Bishop

    CB
    Charles Woodson
    Patrick Dendy
    Frank Walker
    Will Blackmon
    Jarrett Bush

    S
    Nick Collins
    Marquand Manuel
    Tyrone Culver
    Marviel Underwood
    Atari Bigby
    Charlie Peprah
    Aaron Rouse

    ALSO have to take in account keeping our own guys around so that would add

    Driver
    Kampman
    Harris
    Jenkins
    Barnett

    Green for 1 year
    Henderson for 1 year
  20. digsthepack
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    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I believe next year you will see TT more willing to dip his toe into the FA pool. We have maturing young talent, decent depth across the board and a QB that I believe has already committed to next year, IMHO.

    We are not quite ther this year, but we ar getting close. The future looks bright to me.
  21. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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  22. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Thats what you said last year
  23. PackerLegend
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    PackerLegend Cheesehead

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    Mike Sherman inheirted

    Brett Favre
    Donald Driver
    Antonio Freeman
    Bill Schroeder
    Mike Wahle
    Mark Tausher
    Mike Flanagan
    Ross Verba
    Marco Rivera
    Frank Winters
    Chad Clifton
    Ahman Green
    Dorsey Levens
    William Henderson
    Mike McKenzie
    LeRoy Bulter
    Darren Sharper
    KGB
    Vonnie Holliday
    Santana Dotson

    now if you ask me thats a pretty talented team and alot of these guys were young and in there prime Favre, Green and look at that o-line
  24. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    What is this supposed to prove?
  25. warhawk
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    warhawk Cheesehead

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    These are the guys he DID go with in '05 and we all know how great that worked out.
    I count about HALF a football team there buddy. It takes a whole lot more than that to win football games in the NFL.
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