Why Brett doesn't deserve to have his number retired

[jerryricefumbled]

Too many slow script problems here....

Favre had many great moments during regular seasons.

Someone give me his greatest 5 games in the post-season.
Any buzzer-beaters?
Any games where he played better than the regular season?

We've seen him go the other way and play crappy, losing to bums like Culpepper and Vick, and lay eggs.
We've seen him become a chokey, interception machine in devastating losses to the Eagles, Giants, Saints... in the close Super Bowl loss he threw a bad interception, and then locked onto a covered Mark Chmura late to not come thrtu there as Eli and Brady and Montana always did.

We've seen him throw 6 Ints and 3 Pick-6's in a loss to the Rams, whom would later get upset by the Patriots.

I agree with the premise of this thread, and because I am usually sick of any talk of #4, I have avoided this thread til now (also, because the website keeps having some slow script problem, I usually have to exit).

After Ted Thompson and Aaron Rodgers are gone, then we can look at retiring #4. Until then, I'd love to see a kicker or punter wearing #4.

2008 playoffs, under hand toss like a boss

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[TJV]

Good posting, AmishMafia. I don't remember Favre visiting other teams - I assume you're talking about after the 1993 season, before he signed a 5-year deal before the '94 season - but I believe he was a restricted free agent at the time and that frequently lessens other teams' interest in players. You're right about his attitude - it was Favre himself who told Greta that he had told Thompson how to do his job shortly after Thompson became GM - and at the time Favre hadn't even committed to coming back to play the '95 season. That must have been some "introduction" to his starting QB from Thompson's point of view. IMO Favre had already bought into the 'Favre is bigger than the Packers' attitude still displayed by some on this board.

And still no attribution for the Benedict Arnold analogy? J/K

 

[AmishMafia]

And still no attribution for the Benedict Arnold analogy? J/K

First Favre post in a while. I avoid the threads. If you made the analogy before me, I was unaware. A tip of the hat to you then! My recollection of FA Favre was that it wasn't a sure thing we would resign him. He went to New Orleans an many thought he would end up there. I don't recall much fan discussion saying we had to resign him.

 

[DevilDon]

Chicken or egg. I'd argue that Favre made everyone around him that much better. In fact for the skills positions, I don't think that anyone one except for Chmura was a Pro Bowl player had they played with a different, average QB.

Favre did epitomize the franchise and it's ideals. His vicodin addiction was a perfect example. He admitted that he had a problem, he and the fans dealt with it, and we all came out better in the end. THAT epitomizes the team and Packers community. DevilDon, when you fall off your high and mighty horse you might feel the same way. You can't pick and choose what you want to celebrate or condemn about the man...well, I guess that you are but that's just like all of the wonderful politicians.

Favre was a great player for this franchise. For 16 seasons Favre was the face of the franchise, set almost every record at his position, and set most of the major NFL records while a Packer. He had ups and downs personally but was almost unanimously loved by every Packers fan. Yes he had an ugly breakup at the end, and it's clear that you still can't handle that, but you can't wash away the 16 years of success with a couple months of ugly off-season. That's pretty shallow.

The Packers should retire his number. Feel free to write the Packers organization a letter and ask them to put an asterisk next to his number on the ring of honor in Lambeau.

You think Sterling Sharpe would be ordinary without Brett? Ahman Green ordinary? What about Keith Jackson? Antonio Freeman was only as good as his QB? I suppose the OLine was greater because of the great one?
I never had a problem with the Vicodin addiction and I agree it was great the way it all turned out. What I have a problem with.... even from my high and mighty horse, is his transgressions against the franchise. I'm not a member of the Packers, never have been, never got millions of dollars to live a great life from them either. You'd think that he would have appreciated his opportunity the Packers franchise gave him. Nope! He turned his back on the very organization that allowed him his platform and his stardom and spit in the face of it and the fans. Ivo said it best "Sadly, in anyones life, one mistake can define you."
I can and will choose what I celebrate or condemn about the man. Some sins are greater than others. His attitude towards the very same group that brought him fame is unforgivable. I can handle his ugly breakup but I'm not forgiving it. You can be Christlike and turn your cheek but I'm not. Shallow or not I have a right as a fan to think the way I do Guapo and I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

 

[toolkien]

As I've said on more than one occasion, Favre burned his legacy, we didn't take it from him. Just exactly when enough was burned is different for different people, so their likelihood for unilateral (if ever) forgiveness is different. For me, after his failed attempt to protect Sherman in 2005, the "what are they going to do, cut me?" in 2006, the "trade me" and backpedaling in 2007 (along with the dead eyed pressers that showed Favre had little inspiration for the 2007 season and was looking simply for his personal records), it was actually in 2009 BEFORE even a hint of signing with the Vikings. During an interview after the Jet season, Favre was asked point blank what was the epicenter of his "mistrust" (i.e. hate) of TT sprang from and Favre said, out of his own mouth, it was when TT drafted two QB's and "closed the door on me". For me that was it.

During The Divorce, our intrepid journalists made hints and allegations that "if you only you knew what was actually going on, what the team was doing to poor Favre, you'd be on his side". Well, between the Greta interviews and the above referenced interview, all that Favre, HIMSELF, said was that he couldn't be the de facto GM of the team. If that was what was so dastardly, it shows just how biased the journalists were. And the denial to sign off on the draft in retirement left me no option but to put the vast majority, if not all, the blame for the pain on Favre. That was when I hated Favre and all that he did the prior three years to undermine the team. The signing with the Vikings to stick it to the team was just the cherry on top.

I had no problem recognizing Favre's upside and his downside and embrace them both. Recognize the type of hall of famer we had on our hands, not a top tier guy, but certainly better than Blair Kiel rolled Randy Wright by a long shot. But I also recognized the years it took to finally "get it", I recognized that QB'ing wasn't the biggest problem the Packers had in the Dark Years, I recognized that the Packers had quality QB'ing in the chamber behind Favre, I recognized all the other people - from the front office on down - who brought the Packers up from the Dark Years. And I recognized all the opportunities the Packers gave Favre before they had reason to other than potential. But his behaviors the last three years with the team, and the three years after, culminating in that 2009 statement about Favre's "mistrust" could not be offset by ANYTHING Favre had done up to that point.

At the end of the day, it's up to Favre to rebuild any bridges. The Packers, and the fans, were here before Favre and we're hear after Favre. He was always just a PART of the history, and his legacy SUBORDINATE to it. He decided he was above the team, and he threw away his legacy in trying get revenge against it. Not as a subsidiary happenstance in continuing a career, but a plotted and intentional set of actions against the team. We've had plenty of former players play against the team, and I'd hope they'd give their all for their new team. But to specifically plot revenge, from that draft of two QB's on, goes beyond the pale.

The only people who believe unilateral forgiveness is a must are those who bought the revisionary narrative that began in 1997 that only Favre turned the team around. That Favre was justified in his belief that he was bigger than the team. Even with all the evidence at hand proving the opposite - Favre ignominious exit after yet another playoff killshot and the Packers being the best team in the league the last three years combined - they still cling to the fallacious narrative. But what is a "legend"? Paul Bunyon is a legend. King Arthur is a legend. Legends are fabrications based loosely on a few facts or none at all. And that was Favre, a Foutsian/Moonian HoF'er that was distorted out of all proportion as the greatest QB ever - Montana rolled in Unitas rolled in Brady. But even if that WERE true, he would never be bigger than Lambeau and Hutson and Starr and Taylor and White and Rodgers and everyone else who was a part of the Packer franchise. But the adoring sheep who bought the narrative, the journalists who supported the narrative (and fell victim to themselves, losing their objectivity), and the national media led Favre to believe that he was invulnerable. And at the end of the day it's the FANS who decide if Favre is honorable or not. If the Packers organization try to stuff it down our throat, they're in for a surprise. Without contrition on Favre's part - his attempt at rebuilding the bridge - I think the reaction at any number retirement is going to be brutal.

 

[JTheGreat]

Im going to leave it short and sweet, Farve 100% deserves to have his number retired as a packer...
Its just so easy to forget about him because of Aaron Rodgers and our recent superbowl win, but the man came to play day in and day out. Farve wasnt the only sports star to leave his team...

 

[AmishMafia]

Im going to leave it short and sweet, Farve 100% deserves to have his number retired as a packer...
Its just so easy to forget about him because of Aaron Rodgers and our recent superbowl win, but the man came to play day in and day out. Farve wasnt the only sports star to leave his team...

No he is not the first nor will he be the last to leave a team. He may be the first to leave, turn around and try to screw them over in any way possible, and still have a loyal contingent of fans.

 

[ivo610]

Question for those in favor of retiring his number...

If he declines to show up for having his number retired would you still be in favor of retiring the number?

 

[El Guapo]

Ooooh, what if he decides to moon the fans during the ceremony? Are we really going to play this game?

 

[okcpackerfan]

2008 playoffs, under hand toss like a boss

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the only reason he had to shovel pass is because he is not athletic enough to stay on his feet and was stumbling. AROD would have thrown a touchdown to James Jones in the back corner of the end zone on that play.

 

[okcpackerfan]

Question for those in favor of retiring his number...

If he declines to show up for having his number retired would you still be in favor of retiring the number?

0 chance this happens, he would show up.

 

[AmishMafia]

0 chance this happens, he would show up.

What if he shows up - in a viking uniform?

 

[okcpackerfan]

What if he shows up - in a viking uniform?

what if he shows up without pants on?

 

[gwh11]

Question for those in favor of retiring his number...

If he declines to show up for having his number retired would you still be in favor of retiring the number?

You could also ask: "What if he shoots somebody during a botched robbery attempt on the way to the ceremony (with Bart Starr driving the getaway car)?

 

[13 Times Champs]

Good posting, AmishMafia. I don't remember Favre visiting other teams - I assume you're talking about after the 1993 season, before he signed a 5-year deal before the '94 season - but I believe he was a restricted free agent at the time and that frequently lessens other teams' interest in players. You're right about his attitude - it was Favre himself who told Greta that he had told Thompson how to do his job shortly after Thompson became GM - and at the time Favre hadn't even committed to coming back to play the '95 season. That must have been some "introduction" to his starting QB from Thompson's point of view. IMO Favre had already bought into the 'Favre is bigger than the Packers' attitude still displayed by some on this board.

And still no attribution for the Benedict Arnold analogy? J/K

Thompson wasn't GM in 1993-1995 time frame. Ron Wolf was GM and didn't Brett just arrive in GB in 1992?

 

[okcpackerfan]

You could also ask: "What if he shoots somebody during a botched robbery attempt on the way to the ceremony (with Bart Starr driving the getaway car)?

double funny because doesn't Bart Starr own or previously own a successful car dealership in wisconsin?

 

[gwh11]

double funny because doesn't Bart Starr own or previously own a successful car dealership in wisconsin?

He did, once upon a time.
Alright, so what if Favre doesn't show, and instead he sends that lookalike that was in the Green Bay area last year, wearing a Viking jersey, but no pants?

 

[ivo610]

0 chance this happens, he would show up.

I wouldn't be so sure. This man hates the packers with a passion, he could view this as them making money off of him and decide against it.

Can't think he is too eager to see Ted Mike or Aaron anytime soon either.

 

[ivo610]

You could also ask: "What if he shoots somebody during a botched robbery attempt on the way to the ceremony (with Bart Starr driving the getaway car)?

Well I'm sure he would be intercepted before he got to the ceremony. Kind of his style.

 

[okcpackerfan]

I wouldn't be so sure. This man hates the packers with a passion, he could view this as them making money off of him and decide against it.

Can't think he is too eager to see Ted Mike or Aaron anytime soon either.

I agree with your reasoning but we are talking about Brett Favre here. You think he would miss a chance to be on ESPN again and be the center of attention at lambeau again (even if only for a day)? When the packers retire his number, barring death, I would make a substantial bet he would show up.

 

[gwh11]

It's fun to joke about these implausible scenarios, but it reminds me of how Sterling Sharpe avoided/didn't return calls from the Packers when they wanted to induct him into the team's Hall of Fame. This went on for a few years. I recall reading that his wife eventually called them back to accept the honor. Unlike what happened there, I see Favre accepting any formal honors from the team, and showing up to receive it.

 

[Pat4DaPack]

I wonder if the Vikings will retire Randy's number someday

One of the best players in their franchise, I hope they do.

 

[TJV]

Thompson wasn't GM in 1993-1995 time frame. Ron Wolf was GM and didn't Brett just arrive in GB in 1992?

Huh?

 

[P-E-Z]

Too much drama, too many int's and only 1 ring in all those years......

 

[GeeDogWarrior]

imagine if we managed to keep Ted back in the late 90s, or if Reggie McKenzie got the GM job instead of Sherman... Brett probably wins another superbowl, we probably wouldn't have the salary cap problems that led to that crappy 2005 season, we probably ... could've, should've won more...