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When Posters Insist on Disregarding 2010 When Analyzing TT...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. NOMOFO
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    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    5th winngest team in the NFL the past 10 years. Super Bowl three years ago.
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  2. rodell330
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    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Ok Ted, we get it. You're the best:rolleyes:
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  3. NOMOFO
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    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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  4. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Here´s the article about the strenght and conditioning staff in Stanford:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/s...en-redefines-strength.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&

    I´m not a physiotherapist, so my explanation isn´t probably the best one. But here´s what I´ve been told by some people: Muscles that are more flexible can take a lot of impact away from the bone or ligaments, hence resulting in fewer broken bones and torn ligaments.
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  5. yooperpackfan
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    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

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    That sir, is exactly how my physical therapist explained things to me after I had my knee replacement.
    Nice job!
  6. El Guapo
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    So had Navarro Bowman been trained better by the 49ers staff, he could have avoided tearing his ACL and MCL and possibly carried his team to the SB?

    I understand the gist of what they are saying, but it's theoretical in practice because you can't isolate a single cause of injury. It's typically a whole range of factors stretching out from the angle of impact to the player's diet and genetic disposition. Muscular flexibility is one piece of the puzzle, the degree of which is unknown but one of hundreds of variables.
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  7. NOMOFO
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    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    yep... no question.

    agreed...but it is a fact that some people are in fact more prone to injury for some of the very reasons cited here. when people talk about guys being "injury prone", it is something to be considered.
  8. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    When I saw you had 4 ‘Winner’ ratings, I didn’t even need to look. I knew exactly who the 4 would be. Not necessarily speaking for the Pro-TT crowd, and in the interest of gaining an understanding, I would like to provide a readers guide of sorts for you and your ilk.

    1. Nobody believes TT is perfect.
    2. Nobody believes TT never makes mistakes.
    3. Nobody believes TT cannot make improvements to the way he does things.
    4. Nobody is happy with the poor performance of some players and position groups
    5. Nobody has given TT a ‘free pass’
    6. Nobody says TT cannot be criticized

    Posts to the contrary reduce the posters credibility and validity of any comments.

    I offer this analogy:

    Aaron Rodgers throws an interception in the 49er game. Was there outrage directed at Rodgers? Was there a demand to alter the way he plays football? No. It is understood that no QB is perfect, nobody, in any profession, can be expected to be correct, accurate, and perform the best 100% of the time. I am sure everyone can agree with this. So how would you handle somebody, or a group of individuals who continually post that something is wrong with him, we need to replace him or he needs to change his throwing mechanics.

    So why, if the Packers don’t win a SB each season, is there suddenly something wrong with TT and the way he does his business?

    I think we can all agree to these points:

    1. The Superbowl is the goal each season
    2. The Packers, at the beginning of the season, have been a contender for the Superbowl each of the last 4 season.
    3. Very few teams, if any, can make that claim.

    For these reasons, I find the fact that a team assembled by TT, that won a SB, is evidence that his method of team building, can build a championship caliber team.

    In my view, and I believe that of others, the following is true:

    1. Thompson will always be heavily criticized for any issue on the team
    2. Some people will always have a negative view of TT, no matter what
    3. Winning the Superbowl is not an easy task with 6-8 teams each having a decent opportunity each season
    4. Winning the SB in 2010 was a great accomplishment that TT was overall responsible for it
    5. We cannot expect to win the SB each season.
    6. If we did not lose CM3, Jolly, Hayward, Rodgers (don’t think he was back and sharp 100%), and Bulaga – beating the 49ers was very likely; beating the Seahawks was likely and winning the SB is a 50-50 proposition
    7. The way TT has been treated on internet forums has been abysmal and embarrassing. Especially before the SB when he was accused of being cheap, an ego maniac, a Favre hater, a person trying to ruin the Packers, gay, etc. There were posts of him in cross hairs, demands to set fire to his house, etc. There is a sensitivity created in those days that may cause a few of us TT supporters to overreact to the heavy criticism.
    8. There are no complete teams in the NFL, every team has weaknesses.


    Finally, here is what I think TT thinks about that directs his moves:

    1. Keeping the team competitive for the long term is a component of every FA acquisition
    2. Improving the team for a year at the cost of future years is not a good idea
    3. All FAs are considered
    4. TT wants to win the SB and every decision he makes he believes will put us in the best possible position to realize that goal
    5. TT does not worry about how much money is spent – just what it is spent on
    6. TT will spend every penny he has
    7. Some FA don’t want to come to GB
    8. Some FA, although great players, are buttheads and would spoil team chemistry
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  9. rodell330
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    The fifth had as much to do with the stupidity of the playcalling in Dallas and Detroit pissing away a two game lead then us actually earning it. Just sayin.
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  10. NOMOFO
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    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Wish I could give you a hug. :D:tup: Amen... the best point of your post was this: "Nobody has given TT a ‘free pass’".

    It's the sign of a simple minded non-analytical person to say that, and yet, the same few guys on here say it all the time. It's the standard line that gets puked when they run out of crap to spew and they know it.

    Please do share... please give us an example of a TT supporter that's never criticized TT over something.
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  11. RustyShackleford
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    RustyShackleford Cheesehead

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    I'm not sure everyone agrees with #2. I certainly don't. I didn't think they were going to mount a serious challenge this year and I felt the same way at the beginning of last year. Unless something dramatic happens I don't think I will see them as a legitimate Super Bowl contender at the beginning of next year.

    Of course, I do think they'll win the division and I do recognize that any team that makes the playoffs has a chance to string together 3 or 4 wins in the playoffs. I just think their defense is so unreliable that they would be a longshot to pull it off and I don't see anything dramatically changing in the near future.

    I think it's more on coaching than TT so I'm not necessarily bashing him, but just wanted to address this point.

    There's a lot of anxiety amongst many Packer fans and with good reason, IMO. We've probably got only about 5-6 years of elite level QB play left and every year they send out a crappy defense is an golden opportunity lost.
  12. NOMOFO
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    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    I do agree with #2...and I honestly think you're missing the boat if you don't. First, I "hope" you would agree they have one of the best offenses in the NFL. Right? I guess I wouldn't assume, but I certainly think most people think that. The NFL is geared towards aiding offense right now and the rules changes have all proven that.

    Sooooo ANY team with one of the top offenses in the NFL certainly "has a shot to be a contender for the Superbowl". Do you happen to remember the first few games of the year before injuries set in? You may want to go look back and do some google searches on that. The Packers defense was playing very well before the injury bug set in again.

    I would ask, who exactly would you include that you see as a serious Super Bowl contender for next year? (Not favorite...that wasn't the comment he made)
  13. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    I would break the NFL down into 4 quarters.

    Top 8: all have a legitimate shot at a SB 7-10% each. Packers were 12/1 in vegas odds - which was 7th
    Next 8: Teams who have a slight shot at a SB 2-4%
    Next 8: Teams unlikely to go to SB 1-2%
    Bottom 8: Collectively? about 2%

    I would definitely put the Packers in the top 8 these last few years. Keep in mind, that the best team in the NFL is only probably sitting around 10%. That means the best team is still very unlikely to win the SB.
  14. rodell330
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    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    This is coming from a person who has reminded us several times the Packers are the fifth most winning team over the past 10 yrs and won a Sb 3 yrs ago. Dude we know this...but you talk about spewing the same stuff over and over. Teddy
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  15. RustyShackleford
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    RustyShackleford Cheesehead

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    You think they played well against SF? You think they played well against Cincinnati? The rest of the first half of the schedule was against really bad offensive teams. The only exception might be Detroit, but without CJ that team is hopeless. The defense has always been able to play well against lousy offensive teams. It's against good offenses that the wheels totally fall off.

    A lot of this is definitional. Different people define contender differently. I would say, though, that as things stand now I would be shocked if the Packers could go on the road in the playoffs and beat Seattle, San Francisco or New Orleans in the NFC. That, to me, makes them not a real contender.
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  16. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Thats me...I had a compound fracture of my big toe by throwing a football
  17. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Their run defense was doing very very well...I dont recall the rest, but run def was top 5 before Rodgers got hurt
  18. Ogsponge
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    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    What? Me and my ilk? Your opening statement is hilarious, I clearly point out an issue with certain posters on this board that feel the need to get down on anyone that criticizes TT, how do you respond? By grouping me, a poster who has been on this board for 7 months, as part of some "ilk". Pray tell me, did you read my post? Because if you had I don't know how you could possibly feel the need to give your condescending reader's guide to me and my ilk. If you had read my post you would understand that my ilk believes TT deserves tons of credit and praise for the things he has done well including building a Super Bowl winning team, but also deserves criticism concerning his failures on the defensive side of the ball.

    Really? Were you truly able to keep a straight face while typing this entire post? If you believe everything you say above is true, why do you even feel the need to defend it? If you believe all of the above than you actually fall squarely in line with me and my "ilk".

    Please show me where in my post I said there is something wrong with TT and the way he does business? The only thing you will find, is that he has failed rather badly on the defensive side of the ball. Nowhere in my entire post do I even imply there is something wrong with the way he does business.

    Agreed

    Absolutely, we have a great offensive team which is always going to give us a "chance", however the current incarnation of our defense (through this year) has never been good enough to give us more than a "chance"

    Agreed

    Agreed, again, please point anywhere in my post that I even remotely suggested anything contrary to this effect?

    Agreed but again, I don't think you read my post which clearly stated that most posters seem to fall to the extremes

    Agreed, again did you read my post? Read my previous comment again.

    Agreed what does that have anything to with anything I said in my original post?

    Sigh, agreed, I am starting to feel like a broken record but once again I will ask, did you read my post?

    Did I ever say that?

    This is going to be

    LEGEN

    wait for it...

    Did you even read my post?

    DARY


    And therein lies the problem, what you perceive as heavy criticism, is just criticism of a certain area with this team (the defense) that is failing miserably. At least as far as my post is concerned. Did you happened to, I don't know read my post?

    Agreed, did I suggest otherwise?

    I would never presume to consider what he thinks about while being one of the best GM's in football but I am sure those are a few of his many thoughts concerning building a winning team.

    In closing after going through your entire post, I am fully convinced you did not bother to read a word I said because absolutely nothing you typed up had anything to do with anything I said. The funny part is that we are in agreement on nearly everything yet you wrote this gigantic novel in defense of a point of view that you apparently are not even part of?

    One last time, did you read my original post?
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  19. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I could have sworn others make numerous threads on what Ted needs to do or even bashes Ted in a update on Collins.
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  20. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    True, winning the Super Bowl was a great accomplishment and I´ll always be thankful to everyone contributing to it, with TT having a hule role in it.

    But I actually think that he should have adjusted the way he does business slightly after that. A major reason for this thought is the new CBA, that was introduced the year after the Packers winning the Super Bowl. Teams aren´t allowed to practice that much anymore during the offseason, training camp and regular season, making it way tougher to bring young players up to speed (even MM referred to that over the last few years).

    IMO bringing in some veterans (for reasonable contracts) at positions of need would help ease the transition of rookies from college to the NFL because they wouldn´t have to start from Day 1.

    Thanks for reading, I´m awaiting your "how dare you criticize TT" response within the next 24 hours.
  21. NOMOFO
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    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    "how dare you criticize TT"

    Again? Really? My Lord. You guys just keep ranting on these off the cuff BS comments like this. Why is that? Like Lontimefan said above, we all have been critical of TT at some point and have clearly stated that in threads! Why do you guys continue to ignore that and make comments like that?

    You can't name one Thompson supporter here that hasn't been critical of TT in one area or another yet you guys keep posting comments like the one you did above. (...but feel free to try) This just totally ruins your credibility. Typically when people do that in debates it's because they know the probably don't have much of a legit point to make. I totally think that's the case with you guys. You know deep down that the Packer's results since TT is in town, make it awfully hard to think he's as pathetic as you make him out to be.

    Are their things we all think TT could do different? YES!!!! ...lol...(and people ask why some of us have to put down several exclamation marks.) Should we start a thread and take a poll on how many people think TT is perfect? Would that get you to stop making these comments like "how dare you criticize TT" ...or "You guys that think TT walks on water".... and on and on and on.
  22. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Great job, NOMOFO. Not a single response to the idea I posted, just a rant over three paragraphs about a comment I was making in fun. :rolleyes:
  23. PFanCan
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    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Ogs, I actually have read your posts on this thread and agree with you. Well done, sir. Not sure why Amish went off on you. Strange.

    Happy to be part of your ilk.
  24. NOMOFO
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    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Comment making fun? Huh? ahhhhhhhhh.........ok..... "how dare you criticize TT" ? Next time can't you just tell us a knock knock joke or something to be funny?:D It's kind of disingenuous to put that on me big guy. Just sayin.

    Sorry for not replying to the idea you posted...

    I agree with you on that. In fact, I said as much in a thread about Capers defense and it's the same theory. I just don't think Ted's methods and Capers defense is a good fit. So, I agree with you on that premise of vet verses rookie. I would like to see Capers go, as a first order of business. At that point, let's see if a new coach and new system would be a better fit with TT running the show as he is now...or close to it.

    I don't however think it's "mission critical" and I do think the team is very capable of winning the SB now. I just think you are on to something and I agree with the premise. Having said that, I must admit that the thought of things going South big-time and not being in the playoffs every year, scares the he## out of me. Thus...I don't lose sleep knowing we're going to keep Capers.
  25. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    Yes I read your entire post. My post was not meant to be a rebuttal. Didn't mean to be condescending. Wasn't attacking you. Not sure why my post wasn't taken as I intended and mentioned in the first paragraph of 'in the interest of gaining an understanding'. My intent was not a rebuttal of your post or views. I did mention the 'Winner' raters and I and everyone else knew exactly who they would be. I posted many things that I thought we all agreed on - and was correct as you agreed on many of them.

    You mention you have been here for some time so you should have noticed by now that there are a few posters here who are upset with Thompson and are rather set in their ways. There is a level of frustration on my part when I see the same mischaracterizations of my thoughts and positions.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014

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