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This Team in a Nutshell

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by red4tribe, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. red4tribe
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    red4tribe Cheesehead

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    When Rodgers went down I initially said the Packers were mediocre without him. I was wrong. I wish this team was mediocre minus Rodgers. Now I doubt we can even beat the sinking Falcons. This is a 2-14 team.

    I haven't given up on MM or TT yet but their backup QB preparation before the season was awful. They need to be held accountable. Capers scheme has run its course and he needs to go. One good year in 5 years as DC. We are getting shredded week after week. The defense completely sucks, with the possible exception of Shields.

    Really, who is even talented on this team? We have been completely exposed. Rodgers is awesome, Nelson is a stud and JJ is solid. Besides that our offense sucks. The offensive line sucks. The play calling sucks. The defense sucks. Can't stop the run and can't cover anyone either.

    Anyone think Rodgers should win MVP?
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  2. gatorpack
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    gatorpack Cheesehead

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    yeah because Rodgers would of lit up the lions D. All Rodgers would have done is get the right side of his collar bone cracked. Flynn had no chance today. Agree Capers has to go!!!
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  3. red4tribe
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    red4tribe Cheesehead

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    I'm not saying Rodgers should have played, it isn't worth doing permanent damage if he isn't ready to go.
  4. yooperpackfan
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    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

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    Wow.
    I think my time machine dropped me off into the 1970's.
  5. gatorpack
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    gatorpack Cheesehead

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    Im saying if Rodgers was 100% it wouldn't have mattered. The Packers Oline got their lunches and girlfriends taking from them today. If we had cheerleaders they would have stole them too!
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  6. Shawnsta3
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    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    Two years ago, Rodgers was a system quarterback who benefited off the team around him. Now he's the entire team and we can't win without him?

    It's likely somewhere in the middle.
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  7. weeds
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    weeds Cheesehead

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    Been there... done that ... you don't want to be in THAT place, however, we WERE allowed to bring our own beer in to the stadium - there's something.
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  8. weeds
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    weeds Cheesehead

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    ...and if were at Lambeau, the Lions probably would have cleaned out all the refrigerators before leaving town. I'd bet that after the game Thursday, the Packers' girlfriends being taken?...I could see the O-Line saying something like... "Do what you want to the GIRL....but LEAVE ME ALONE!!"

    Yeah...it was that bad.
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  9. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    You don't think Matthews is a good player????
  10. alien visitor
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    alien visitor Cheesehead

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    The Pack has lost it's heart. The desire and determination has faded. THAT IS ON THE COACHING!!!
  11. Forget Favre
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    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I'm so sick and tired of seeing just about everyone blaming one man for all the Packers troubles. Dom Capers.
    I will not join the rest of the Packers sheeple in calling for him to be fired until I see a perspective from the Packers which shows that he alone is to blame
    The only calls for him to be fired are coming from the fans and not the players or anyone else who actually goes and works for the Packers.
    I think that Capers is just being scapegoated and it's nothing else but a knee jerk reaction from all the arm chair coaches who don't have one clue on what it's like to play or be part of an NFL team.
    He calls the plays. If a player fails to execute on that play, then why blame the coach for that?
    Why aren't the players being blamed? They are the ones that are missing tackles or whatever.
    Or maybe they are just simply being outplayed.
    When Packers are winning, there is hardly any call for Capers to go.
    When they are losing, just about everyone somehow thinks that it's all of Capers fault.
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  12. Carl
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    Carl Cheesehead

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    I don't think any team is prepared well enough to win with a third string QB. If you can name a team that's good with a third stringer, I'd like to know. It's unrealistic to expect MM and TT to be that prepared.

    Capers had has a 2nd, 5th, and 11th ranked defense. That's three good years. Fans tend to look at the playoff games and forget the rest of the year.

    You forget about Lacy on offense? How about Cobb and Finley (when healthy)?

    Defense sucks other than Shields??? Ever hear of Clay Matthews? Only one of the best pass rushers in the game.

    And the O-line has been very good all year expect for Thursday.

    You're really letting this recent stretch of bad games cloud your thoughts.
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  13. ExpatPacker
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    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Excuse me, but this defense has stumbled around from average at best to flat out bad for 3 years now. Even when they were ranked #11 last year, they got completely run over and torched silly in some important games--Indy, Minnesota and of course, the playoffs against SF. The one playoff victory came against a Minnesota team that had the Mighty Joe Webb at QB who couldn't throw a forward pass to save his life. Your stats are misleading. In the past 5 years Capers' defenses have been:

    2012: #11 PPG #11 YPG
    2011: #15 PPG Dead Last YPG
    2010: #2 PPG #5 YPG
    2009: #2 PPF #2 YPG

    2013: #23 PPG #25 YPG

    A steady decline, and that's after 2 successive defense-oriented drafts. The excuses have become tiring. Maybe Capers is the most ingenious defensive mind out there, but if you can't get your players to play the scheme up to their potential, IT DOESN'T MATTER!! Particularly in the playoffs, this defense has been humiliated. The "improvement" in 2012 proved to be misleading--we beat a crippled Vikings team in the Wild Card and got absolutely blown out against SF.

    I for one do blame the coaches. Not just Capers but MM, the reason being what someone else called "the sickness of denial." McCarthy is up to his neck in it, and if I may borrow a quote, it pretty much expresses my point of view:

    "Every word out of MM’s mouth are words of denial. If you keep telling yourself everything is going to be OK, you start to believe it.

    But football is a game of performance and action, not words. The Packers defense has been sub-par for two seasons now (I would actually say three, but to be fair…). The Packer organization must start facing up to the facts (and stats) for they don’t lie – people lie (or deny), facts and stats do not. The Packer organization is going to have to do some real soul-searching if they are going to be a contender with its current leadership. I respect the Packers as a team and as an organization, and their views on loyalty, but loyalty with no performance does not win games."

    Actually facts and stats do lie, but in this case I think that the #11 defense last year was the big lie. In other words, MM never ever acknowledged the existence of a deeper problem...it's never the coaches, never something systemic. It's always bad tackling, getting back to fundamentals, i.e. it's the players. Well yes, it is bad tackling, but there's more to improving tackling than saying the system is ok, the coaches are ok, we just need to work on our tackling. Every coach in football can say the exact same thing and it means absolutely zero, zilch, nothing. It suggests an unwillingness to examine the whole thing: coaches, atmosphere, attitude, philosophy, fundamentals, scheme, players, draft choices.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
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  14. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    I think that there may be some real estate between "good" and "winless". I prefer to believe that there are 31 teams that may have played better than we did Thursday, even with Tim Tebow.
  15. Carl
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    Carl Cheesehead

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    I don't remember much of the Indy game. Against Minnesota, Capers stacked the box and Peterson still went nuts. That's not on Capers' scheme. Against the 49ers, Kaepernick ran untouched a lot. No schemed plans on that. Did Capers tell Walden to bite on the fake on the long TD run?

    Also, I don't know how you look at the defense not playing up to the scheme and put all the blame on Capers. There's more than one coach at every position that all know the plays and help coach the players.

    The players have proven they can play at a higher level (top five run defense 1st half of the season). For whatever reason, they aren't right now and I doubt that the coaches have all of a sudden got worse at coaching.

    Even if it is coaching, MM isn't going to evaluate that now midseason and look for a new one. I'm sure all the coaches are always evaluated every off season.

    MM has helped get us a Super Bowl and we're always contenders (with Rodgers). I trust he knows what he's doing.
  16. Carl
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    Carl Cheesehead

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    You're right. There is a difference. The point I was trying to make is I don't think any team wins much with their 3rd string QB.
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  17. red4tribe
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    red4tribe Cheesehead

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    Let's look at Capers' history. 2009, his first year, we were probably statistically one of the better defenses but that's rather deceiving considering we were shredded by Warner, Roethlisberger and Favre(Twice). Yeah yeah, they were elite quarterbacks, but their numbers were just ridiculous against us. If I recall correctly, Favre didn't even get sacked in the two games against us and had something like 8td's to 0 int's. Roethlisberger threw for over 500 yards against us too, I believe. And I don't think I need to remind anyone what Warner did in the playoffs. Overall though, I feel like Capers was solid his first year.

    In 2010, our defense was great. I don't care what anyone says, the #1 reason we won the Super Bowl was because of the defense. How many times that year did our offense fail to put a game away only for our defense to stop a two minute drive by our opponent? I believe the defense was more important than Rodgers, or the offense as a whole, for winning the Super Bowl that year. I would give Capers an A+ for his work with the defense in 2010.

    In 2011 it starts to get bad. The defense was awful the whole year, but was able to cover up for it by creating lots and lots of turnovers, which worked for quite a while. I have no problem with giving up some points as long as we were turning the ball over, but eventually you're going to run into a QB who is smart and won't turn it over, and that happened when we ran into Manning on another hot streak in the playoffs. Yeah, he threw one INT but beyond that, we were pretty much manhandled on all sides of the ball that game. I don't really blame Capers for that loss, but the 2011 defense was very, very flawed.

    2012 was a slight improvement but once again, as in 2009, the defense was inept when it actually counted. Smith and then Kapernick wrecked us. Heck, Ponder lit us up in week 17(with the help of AP). The defense wasn't terrible, but it was certainly well below average.

    Now we are in 2013. Yes, I agree, the defense is not the only reason or even the main reason this team has collapsed. I don't think Capers alone should take blame. But from my perspective, we have given him five years to work with this defense, and have gotten one good year out of him. I just don't see things getting any better. Yes, the players have to execute, I agree, and they quite often don't. Looking at it from a larger perspective though, Capers has a completely different team than he did in 2009, and yet, we still encounter the same problems, except worse this year. This makes me believe it is a schematic problem. Have opposing QB's figured our Capers? Why can every RB continue to run the ball down our throat? I think the problem goes deeper than the players on the field, and while I will always love Capers and give him more credit than anyone else on our team for the SB victory, I think it is time for him to go.
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  18. PFanCan
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    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    No, but it does show a lack of readiness, which reflects poorly on the coaching. Walden clearly was not "expert" at his responsibilities versus the read option. On that particular play, Waldon should have tackled Kaep, even if he was only faking that he had the ball.
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  19. Carl
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    Carl Cheesehead

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    The coaches did cover the read option leading up to the game. They admitted that they didn't cover it a lot, but that's because the 49ers didn't use it a lot before that game. And I'm sure they told Walden during the game his responsibility is the QB. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
  20. PFanCan
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    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Yeah, Walden is probably not qualified to be a rocket scientist.

    However, I wonder why there seemed to be absolutely no adjustments or learnings during the game? The read option burned us all game long, not just on that single play. As has been beat to death on this forum and elsewhere, MM and DC do not make good (or any) in-game adjustments. I believe a player also stated (was it Woodson?) that nothing was done during halftime to correct things. For example, at any time during the game, did any of the coaches grab Waldon by the scruff of the neck and impress upon him the key to beating the read option? When he blew his assignment the first time, was he removed from the field? I don't know. Just asking.

    I don't know anything, by the way. I have actually been a rocket scientist in my career (not currently), so I am not a dummy... but, when it comes to coaching football, I am an idiot. Just parroting what others have said with this post, mostly.
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  21. BorderRivals.com
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    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    To get back to the original point of this post, here is this year's team in a nutshell:

    [​IMG]
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  22. Cheesehead625
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    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    I see what you're saying, but here's the problem: We've had 5 years of Capers, which means we've had 5 years of drafting players that are supposed to fit his scheme. Now after being shredded year after year, we can only blame the drafting or the coach. This team is not executing and you have to blame the coaching for that. The lack of tackling, the lack of fire, and the lack of discipline all falls on someone. You name it, but who ever is responsible has to go.
  23. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    This defense is much more healthy than the offense is, and our defense, honestly, is healthier this year than in years past.
    This year, Dom can't use injuries as an excuse really, compared to usual.
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  24. Forget Favre
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    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I'll leave it up to the Packers staff to make those kinds of decisions and trust they make the right ones.
  25. HardRightEdge
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    Yes.

    It seems the more guys we get back from the infirmary the worse it gets. By my count, all defensive hands were on deck for this most recent, and worst, embarrassment except Datone Jones and Hayward, neither of which are 3-down players to start with. In fact, Heyward is the only defensive player expected to take any snaps who's on IR...that's a lot better than a lot of teams.

    While some of the guys are playing banged up, that's true across the league at this stage of the season.

    Injury is no excuse for the Drubbing in Detroit.

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