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the root of the problem ...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by mike bat, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. mike bat
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    mike bat Cheesehead

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    ok i not here to ruffle feathers ,, rather to have a simple talk about green bays main problem ... your feed back is wanted ... my issue with the green bay packers is TEDDY T ... i see TT as the root . TT is running my beloved packers in the dirt ... he has made bad choices all the way ... yea he has picked a few ok players ,, but he has also pick many of the worst picks on the charts ... TT feels he has to answer to no one ... i just want to show that our lack of leadership starting with TT is the reason this team cant seem to get it together ... i say one last season for TT ... if we have one more loosing season TT needs to leave .... we the fans and share holders need to runn TT outta the bay ... :happy0005:
  2. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Well done, I think Ted is part of the problem but we have to remember that he does have coaches he listens to..

    Case in point its a known fact that the special teams guy last year wanted to switch punters and Ted allowed it and it back fired..Not saying he was right for doing that, but he does do it.

    I don't agree with you saying he feels he has to answer to no one..Or the other favorite, his ego is to big LOL...I see him re-signing players he had nothing to do with and he cuts players he brought in just as fast if he and the coaches feel need to be cut..to me that does not show me he has an ego..

    Maybe he put WAY to much confidence in his coaches when it came to the line we had..We will NEVER know, unless someone comes right out and says it

    If this team stinks it up this year I would like him gone as fast as other people do...

    But it is what it is right now..For me we HAVE to deal with it...
  3. bad93ex
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    bad93ex Cheesehead

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    His overall draft record for retention and starts is on par with other GM's in the league but somehow someway his teams just dont get it done. Is it necessarily ole Ted's fault who knows but if this team crashes and burns this season (it is only 1-1 so far) you can see a major sweeping change through management and a fire sale of current players.

    If they go 9-7 or better you can expect them all to stick around for another year.
  4. RJay715
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    RJay715 Cheesehead

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    No.

    Maybe its TT's fault for not putting together a good offensive line, but are you really going to call Greg Jennings (2nd round), Jermichael Finley (3rd round), Johnny Jolly (6th round), Aaron Rodgers, Spitz, and Colledge bad picks? I also like what I see in Matthews so far and I'm waiting on Raji. Harrell was a horrible pick.

    But Thompson has an eye for talent. He also brought in Samkon Gado and Ryan Grant, who both came out of nowhere for at least a season in Green Back.

    Thompson also brought in Dom Capers after defense was the primary problem in 2008. Totally reshaped the offense and spent 2 first round draft picks on defensive players.

    I also have to mention that our offensive line looked good in the preseason. Why fix something that wasn't broken? It obviously is broken and something needs to be done, but I don't doubt that he's going to do something to fix it.
  5. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    This is the year that will determinate how things go... If we continue to repeat the same mistakes and do not reach the playoffs, it's obvious TT needs to go. I trully believe this team is talented enough to contende, except for the OL. But the Steelers just won it with a crappy OL. The Giants didn't have a great secondary in 07. The Colts didn't have a great D in 06...

    But it's not just players that a GM needs to assemble. The coaching staff needs to work. Capers was a great move, so was Trgovac, and Greene is still being judged. But Campen has been around for a long time and still hasn't put up a good OL play. MM did a great job in 07, specially in asking Favre to produce more quick passes and an occasional big bomb, but hasn't been able to cut down the penalties and sloppy play. The ST has been sloppy, seemed better against the bears, but was terrible last game. And it is the assistant coach that got the job, so it's the same philosophy.

    I believe this same team under Belichick could go far. Damn, I still believe this team right now can go far. But it's not even close to the belief I had in the preseason, and after the bears game. When you repeat the same mistakes you had the prior season, and when the mentioned season was a losing one, things don't usually end well...
  6. mike bat
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    mike bat Cheesehead

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    well im not fully saying our season is over ... however history does have a way of repeating its self ... what i saw in the bears game was a carbon copy of last season ,, but we did win that game ... what i saw in the bangles game we looked worse than the games we lost last season .... so to me it looks like we even took a step further back ... there just are so many holes in this team ,,, not to mention we dont have that break through player ... we could have picked one up in the draft ,,, but we always seem to trade down ... this is fine if your getting constant solid players ,, at some point you have to pick that break through guy ... you have to use our 1st pick and really get a guy that can and will make a difference ... not a justin hairl ... these choices that are made fully fall on the back of TT ... from the draft to the coaching staff .. and i wish TT would have the back bone to stand up and say im not always making the best choices for this team ... part of being a leader is being able to say i messed up ,, my bad ... i dont see this attude from teddy at all ...
  7. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Wouldnt cutting or releasing players admitting he was wrong?
  8. Killazach
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    Killazach Cheesehead

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    Clay Mathews is already looking sick, and B.J. Raji has amazing potential, don't see how those picks were anywhere near bad considering how ****** our run game was last year.... and the LB was exactly what we needed with the transition to 3-4.
  9. Murgen
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    Murgen MechaPackzilla

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    Yeah, Ted has had some bad picks but his grade in my book for the most recent draft is an A so far. We'll see where the chips fall but it looks like he made some great decisions.

    I'd look more at the coaching than anything. Most teams would love to have the talent on the GB team. Like I think RSpacker said might be true that this team with Belichick might go really far.

    Reflect on what it's like being a Cowboys fan with Jerry as GM, President and Owner. Who then simply hires stooges to coach his team. TT might have made some mistakes, but he seem way ahead of Jerry imo.

    One think about TT I don't like is how he talks. Kind of annoying to listen to. I hope MM is busting heads this week in training for the Rams.
  10. PackCrack
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    PackCrack Cheesehead

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    they need to quit fiddling with themselves. We supposed to be good this year and now we're not. Come on, Packers! Think out there! Work! Don't you care if you win or not, you big pantywaists?
  11. JeffQuery
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    JeffQuery Banned Banned

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    Ted Thompson has a rep of falling in love with his draft picks. Wolf used FA as well as the draft.

    He also has a rep of assembling talent, but not championship teams (Seattle).

    I think it is time for Thompson to go. He was the wrong choice, and I think a reaction to Sherman's profligacy at GM.

    Favre was right, I guess. Well see.
  12. Hauschild
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    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    I certainly agree to an extent. He has intentionally disregarded the O-line, or has failed miserably when drafting O-lineman.

    That would be slightly acceptable if TT would have acquired some GOOD veteran talent - not just a body like Duke Preston and Adrian Klemm.

    I'm not sure how anybody could possibly argue that TT's handling of the O-line has been acceptable. Let's all at least try to remain kool-aid-free on this one.

    To me, TT is a classic example of a fly-by-nite outfit. He continually tries to undercut and in specific aspects like the O-line his products are substandard. Yet, he prices his product and contributes to R&D like his product will never be matured or irrelevant, or have no demand for.

    I'm not sure how many more years of substandard O-line play TT must produce before we begin holding his feet to the fire. His nickel-dime approach is getting old, quickly.

    Now, the hole TT has dug for himself will be more difficult to dig out of. Now, if he uses a first round pick on an O-lineman in 2010, it's almost too late, as most of his draft picks do not produce consistently in the first or second year. See Rodgers/Colledge/Spitz/Collins/Murphy/Harrell.
  13. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Rodgers and Collins have not produced early? Really? Rodgers had a future HoF ahead of him, and Collins got hurt. When they had a full season (or so) to play, they produced. And very well. Nobody argues about TT's ineffectiveness in getting Olinemen, but skilled positions are abundant on this packers team (Rb, not so much... Grant is very competent, IMO, but certainly not a great back). Like I said in another post, I believe it has more to do with the coaching staff than the players, but right now I don't have a lot of confidence in my arguments... We'll just have to see. I've lost my patience, but I'll reserve real judgment to after the queens game. And if we're playing well, then a couple more games.
    -
    The thing with fans that "drank the kool-aid", is that they understanded that TT was rebuilding, and set a time. The time is this season. That is why a lot more people are freaking out right now than before.
  14. JeffQuery
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    JeffQuery Banned Banned

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    "Rodgers has future HOF written all over him"?

    That's alot premature, don't you think?

    I really don't see that at all. Not yet, at least.
  15. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Learn to read. That's all I have to say.
  16. Hauschild
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    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    No, both did not produce early. Rodgers didn't play for years and Collins didn't play at an NFL caliber until last season. But, it all depends on what one considers "production".

    TT didn't have to draft Rodgers only to have him sit the bench for 3 years - he could have selected a player that would have provided more production and then figured out a QB situation later.

    I think you can see that Rodgers is like 90% of other NFL QB's - he's going to go how his offensive line goes. Point being, sure, we've got a perceived "stud" QB, who looked terrible last week because of an offensive line that hasn't been addressed fairly. What if TT stocks the line instead of drafting Rodgers and we have a less-heralded commodity at QB now? Would we be any worse off??? Could we actually be better off???
  17. Green_Bay_Packers
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    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    Wow Its the same every season we lose one game and its TT problem?
  18. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    So, what I wrote in respect of why they didn't produce early you just didn't took into consideration? And who produced early, in your standards, BTW???
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    Again, TT was brought in to rebuild. That's a fact, that's not arguable. I thought you were starting to look beyond the Favre vs. TT drama and focus on the problems, but that's not going to happen. You're basically saying that getting Rodgers was a bad move? Oh god. OF course we would be a lot worse off! A young franchise QB is way more valuable than an ENTIRE OL. (Unless we're talking about the Hogs here) Rodgers is not like 90% of other Qbs, based on what he has done so early in his career. You're right that, right now, he's not Drew Brees: he can't win despite of his OL (The Saints OL isn't bad, though.)
    -
    TT's failure in adressing the OL doesn't erase his sucess in getting Rodgers, Jennings, Woodson, Collins, Williams, Nelson, Jones, Finley...
    -
    I'm not an apologist or a "lover" or whatever just because I point moves that were sucessfull by TT, since I don't ONLY point his sucessfull moves. I don't have hidden agendas when pointing his sucess, nor I have when pointing his mistakes.
  19. dansz15
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    dansz15 Cheesehead

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    I think that there is a possiblity that TT likes only draft players and not sign free agents, but to build his own team. This squad had too many holes at the start of the year. Think a few years back when they were 13-3, there werent many holes. Nelson who was called an indulgance pick was drafted as best player on board. However, the issues lies in that this season, players got older still (Clift, Tausch) and with the new 3-4 there were holes needed to be filled there as well.

    I really do think it has to do with not having enough high picks for the way he likes to build teams. The Meredith pick at the time looked great. Not sure what happened there but he was argued to maybe be in the high second round.

    Long story shortI am not convinced that it is TT's fault. He builds teams through the draft and has relatively had a solid track record minus some duds, but who doesn't? Two years ago there weren't many gleeming issues when it all caved in, and I did not buy this pre season hype. I didn't think it would be like this, but I did think they would need another year of solid draft to begin building an NFC powerhouse.

    They are a year or so away from being dominant. I am just hoping next year the O Line is the 1st round pick like everyone thought it could of been for a while now. Unless there is nothing on the line drafted, then we can say I am full of it, but until then I am sticking with it. The way TT does things its going to take a while. But I really do think it is almost there.

    BTW TJ Lang has serious potential IMO, the fact he came out of East Mich did not help his cause but he could easily be a solid starter one day. Plug a few holes on the line, and I really think there could be something special.
  20. DILLIGAFF
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    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I agree MM could do a better job in understanding his teams strengths and weakness as it relates to his play calling and the O-line, but at the end of the day I believe we have a Talent Issue On the O-line.
  21. bad93ex
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    bad93ex Cheesehead

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    I think the main reason people are venting anger towards TT is because this is his fifth year and things aren't coming along the way the Packer faithful wish they would. We are all so used to having a dominant team year in and year out through the 90's and early 00's that this is really bugging people.

    Most GM's have a three or five year plan for a team to be championship caliber organization. This is the only second game of the season so we all need to really wait and see this one out. Now if this ship doesn't right itself and we end up sinking to the bottom of the NFC North you can expect more of the anti-TT talk and it will be screaming for the removal of TT. Packer fans should expect no less than that.
  22. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I think this whole "TT builds teams through the draft" isn't true. He was brought in to rebuild, and you do that by drafting young players. That said, 5 years is enough to be rebuilding, and everybody thinks this team is no longer in rebuild mode. Case in point is that he didn't choose in the draft by Best Player Available (Crabtree, allegedly #1 in his board), but rather by need (Raji, and moving up to get Matthews). If results don't come THIS year (playoffs at least), TT needs to go. Simple as that, IMHO.
    -
    And I agree DILLIGAFF, but we had an average at best OL last year and we played with short passes, a la WCO. The same in 2007. We had no running game early in the year, and we went with short passes. You can reach the playoffs with bad OL, example the Steelers. It's awfully hard, though. I thought coming into the season we had a decent enough OL. So did the front office. Was wrong. Now they need to correct it.
  23. Hobbes09
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    I think people are too in love with getting rid of the old if they're not best of the best. If it's not Thompson then who? And the new guy who comes in, does he replace the coaching staff? Then if the coaching staff changes we're basically in rebuild mode all over again.

    Thompson has had some busts, but he's also had an eye for great talent. Yeah, he didn't stack the OL. Well last year the line was considered a problem until it got beaten to hell and back so with it all healed up and ready to go why shouldn't he think it will return to something similar to the 07 line?

    Fact is Thompson inherited a mess of a team yet managed to get it to the NFC championship game in three years. That's pretty good. Next year the team has a freak season. This year he directly addressed the problems of the year before and, for the most part, people believed he did a great job of it. But suddenly a bad game comes around and we're calling for his head again? Yes he has a losing record. But then most GMs don't have to deal with the problem of needing to completely gut a team their first year then dealing with a waffling hometown legend just when things begin picking up.

    Sorry, I don't buy it.
  24. mike bat
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    mike bat Cheesehead

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    i agree with you to a point ^^ ... altho i believe we have had the same holes for years ,, minus the run game ... we had green who did give us a run game ... and we had Brett who gave us that edge at QB ... these 2 PLAYERS ,, BREAK THROUGH PLAYERS were able to mask the holes this team has had ... i remember Bret out there running for his life ... he was almost always rushed ,, that was that O LINE ... i see no difference in this team than the last year sherman packers - execpt the shirman team was better than todays team ... If you have a soft spot for OL TT thats fine man ,,, but it is clear to me todays Packers are being run through the mudd ... i believe TT is problem ,, Bar NONE ... even tho it was a few bad picks ,, they haunt our team now ... the hairl pick was an absolute bust ,, and yes that pick has haunted us and will for years to come ... the Kid was injured when TT picked him ... case in point ,, we need change ... if we are rebuilding now why not clip TT and MM now ... we can save the coming draft ,, maybe get some top picks in here , so in the next few seasons we can have a team ... im just sayin we just had a horrible last season void of playoffs ... this season looks like it could be another nasty season ... cut em get em out ,, they ( tt and mm ) do not deserve to be in green bay ,, send them to DETROIT ,, maybe the D could win 1 game too ,, its a win win ... :happy0005:
  25. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    if Ted is so horrible and you want him gone now, then you must want most of the players gone too..

    How long would it take to re- stock the roster with players from the new GM and coach?

    I say it would take at least 3 years that way

    your okay with going another 3 years of losing then?

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