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The Poop on Sherman

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by packedhouse01, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. packedhouse01
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    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I have been pretty critical of Mike Sherman these past few years. When he first took over for Ray Rhoads I was pretty surprised because he didn't have any experience as a head coach. After his first year when they gave him the job as GM too, I really became concerned simply because he didn't have any experience at any time in his career with head coaching or management experience. I was very disappointed in Wolf and Harlan for making this move because I believed there were others out there with much more experience in talent assessment. Procuring talent throught the draft and free agency is paramount to have a successful team year in and year out. What I did like about Mike was that he was really into building team chemistry and it appeared that his players really liked playing for him. In essence I always thought he was a pretty decent head coach and maybe just had too much on his plate.

    I also believed that his biggest weakness as a head coach was that Mike Sherman, the GM, didn't provide Mike Sherman the coach with very good players. I kind of liked how he got them to play better, but was very disappointed over the past few years with the lack of talent he provided for himself as coach. I also thought that his loyalties to a few of his coaches that didn't produce was a contributing factor in some of his problems. Despite that, his in season record has been pretty amazing. The truth is when it comes to the playoffs, for some reason he hasn't been able to get this team with fairly marginal talent to play well enough to win. What he has been fortunate enough to have was a future hall of fame quarterback and it's been a shame that he hasn't provided the talent to surround Brett with.

    Having said all of this, I'm glad they're going to give him a chance to prove he can coach. I think he's put together a higher quality coaching staff and I like that. I wish he'd call all the plays because it's something that he's really good at. I hope that Thompson can provide enough talent for him over the next few years to give him a fair chance to determine if he can get to the next level with better talent.

    The bottom line is that I'm a Packer fan and Mike Sherman is the coach and my hope is that he produces. I think all in all he's a good man who really wants to see the Packers win and will do whatever he can to help them. Yes he has had his blunders, but what coach hasn't? All I can say is Good Luck Mike.
  2. all about da packers
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    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    :agree: Well said. I will admit he has shortcomings, but I think his record with so much on his plate at least warrants him the oppertunity to get a couple of years to prove what he can do when all his energies are only on coaching.
  3. calicheesehead
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    calicheesehead Cheesehead

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    Ditto. Let's see how MS, the pure coach, finishes this year. I also do like the changes thus far with TT and feel that this added pressure developed a better draft then we've had in a few years.
  4. Zero2Cool
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    Zero2Cool Cheesehead

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    Who would be better that will come coach?
  5. kuston
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    kuston Cheesehead

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    MS the GM is responsible the for classes of 2002, 2003, & 2004. Wolfe was drafting the 2000 and 2001 class. TT the 2005 class. During the draft, it is assumed a class cannot be fairly evaluated for 3 years, you people always ignore this. So here is the '02 class : Walker, Davenport, Kampman, Nall, Barry, Fisher, & Lenon - What exactly do you expect? An all-pro, a good DE, 3 solid backups who play over 30% of the snaps and a #2 QB.

    The problem you refer to is that Wolfe struck out in the '97, '98, '99, & '01 class. These classes should of been the core of Sherman's team for the past 5 years.

    The real shame is about this are the people to keep twisting the facts to suit their own personal viewpoint. Ignore the facts if you like, but they won't go away.
  6. packedhouse01
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    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I agree with you Kuston. But if you look at the 2003 and the 2004 draft choices you got nothing where you needed it, at least that's the way it looks right now. The 2005 draft looked real weak to me at the time of the draft, but they have have uncovered some rising stars.
  7. ArizonaPackerFan
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    ArizonaPackerFan Cheesehead

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    I agree. I don't want to become like the 49ers after they fired Mooch because he didn't take them to the Super Bowl.

    The Packers have been around for over 80 years, but have only had 4 coaches with decent records. Lambeau, Lombardi, Holmgren, and Sherman. I've seen enough bad coaches in the likes of Devine, Starr, Gregg, Infante, etc...

    I'm glad we kept Sherman since we haven't been able to find winning coaches very often.
  8. P@ck66
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    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    I think it's a hell of a lot to sacrifice.....(5 years, the prime of a HOF QB, and the future of the GB PAckers)for an inexperienced "tight ends" coach to be "learning on the job."

    What won't "go away" Kuston is the fact that Mike Sherman's been bumblef***ing his way through his learning curve as GM (which was stripped of him, by the way,...and why is that, Kuston?) and as a coach by making poor gametime decisions and relying on coaches that are highly questionable golfing buddies......

    and yet people want to give him..."a few more years..to see how it goes"

    Hey..why not sign him for 10 more years?...how about 15?
    you really have to give this guy a chance now...to be fair...so what if the Pack never reaches the SB again with Sherman at the helm...you have a few NFC North championships to hang your hat on....(at least when that guy Brett Favre was here....)

    You people must have the patience of Job...or else, losing for all those years in the 70's and 80's have made it ok to lose to the Vikings in the first round of the wild-card playoffs, as long as the Pack has the NFC north title....
  9. NCPackerfan
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    NCPackerfan Cheesehead

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    Could not have said it better myself, packedhouse!!!
  10. net
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    net Cheesehead

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    The fans of the Packers often make the mistake, I feel, of hyper-judging small stuff and losing the bigger picture.

    He has continued the winning that Ron Wolf and Mike Holmgren brought here. Being a playoff contender...and beating the Bears, Vikings and Lions, is much better than saying "maybe next year" in October. We haven't done that in many years.

    I do agree he didn't succeed as a General Manager. I knew the minute Ted Thompson came on board this was a great move. Ted Thompson is Ron Wolf reincarnate. He will make mistakes, but not many, and overall the Thompson-Sherman thing should work out.

    If Brett stays around another year...until Rodgers is ready...Jim Bates...things are looking up.
  11. grabthar
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    grabthar Cheesehead

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    I totally agree here. That's why Sherman received the extention. I realize you don't like Sherman, but give me a name of a coach that will do better.

    You can't name someone that is under contract because that is considering tampering.
    You can't name an assistant coach with out head coaching experience, as you just stated, it's too much to sacrifice and we don't want to go through another 5 years of "learning on the job".

    That pretty much leaves assistant coaches with head coaching experience and re-tread older coaches. Try to find one of them with an overall winning record and then we will talk about replacing Sherman.

    And the few games Bates was the head coach, does not count as valid experience. He is loved by the players, and they pulled together for him for a few games. He does not have experience running the whole show and would need time to gain that experience.

    Also, Sherman is loved my most of the players, Favre included. Most of the players that had an issue with him, had issues with the GM Sherman, and he is gone. Favre even said that one of the reasons he came back is because he loves playing for Sherman.

    Unless you are suggesting we start all over by forcing Favre into retirement (He won't want to learn a new system again), I say we see let Sherman see what he can do as just a coach, and not the GM.
  12. IPBprez
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    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Net - I would take it one step further....

    When Wolfe was in charge, we had TT here on a learning curve, which then garmered him the job he had in Seattle.... in essence, being Ron Wolfe out there, as much as Holmgren would allow that is..... :shock: :roll: -- We've all heard the stories about Mikey H. doing a micro-manage tactic on Ted.

    I would allow it, as a contigent, that TT was the backbone to most of Ron Wolfe's tactical decisions while he (Ted) was here with the Packers, the first time. Now, that may give you food for positive thought, or ammo for barraging the enemy... it's your opinion...

    Comment was made that Wolfe shot blanks for several years in a row. But, did he really...? From 1997 to 2001.. Wolfe was in charge of who the Packers brought to the Team - actually, it was more along the lines of several years before, but we'll move on... Do we have a listing available to us (short list) of which Players were brought in? (I don't have it in front of me) - But, I'd bet that some of those Players were pretty damn good. When was Rivera and Wahle brought in? What about Chad Clifton or Mike Flanagan?

    Sherman was a TE Coach before becoming HC (& GM) - therefore, his Offense focus was enhanced over his Defensive outlook... that only makes sense to me - spock logic dictates he would automatically be better on the O side of the ball. What riles me, is that the Team has lost its edge with the Tiger Set to the game, which we were amazing at during the Sherm Lewis years... You'd really think that Sherman could pull off a great Sherm Lewis imitation since (guess what) he was formerly a TE Coach. And yet, he has failed along those lines.... That's one area where I'd really like to see him explain himself before a crowd of Reporters.

    And - another comment lent itself towards golfing buddies.....

    I'm no tgoin' there right now - No one wants to get me started with my Tom Rossley rant... not now you don't. I'll save that editorial for another time... say, after the 2nd regular season game.... I'll be 51 the week of the Opener against Detroit - I'd like to enjoy myself and give this guy the benefit of the doubt... (Net can shoot me later....) I don't really want to, but it's the christian in me... so, what the hey....!
  13. packedhouse01
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    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    One of the real issues with Mike Sherman that frustrates many of us is his apparent loyalty to coaches who aren't very good. I think it was Wolf who said you have to be careful not to fall in love with your own players. I think the same is true for your coaches. I have no idea why he has held on to Rossely as an example or why he hired Slowik as defensive coordinator. When he decided to fire someone he chose the wrong coordinator. I think it's those type of things along with some very questionable drafts that has put him in this spot with the fans. For a guy who has won as much as he has, he sure seems to have lost the support of the majority of fans. My hope for him this year is that he can prove himself as a coach so we can all move forward. Believe me, I have as many questions about him as a head coach as everyone else, but I'm willing to see this through a little longer. If he can prove himself, we all win.
  14. DePack
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    DePack Cheesehead

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    Well thought out thread packedhouse and others. I have been one of Sherman's biggest supporters. I know Sherman has his shortcomings but overall he has done a good job coaching this team.

    If certain posters want to continually point out that he has not had much success in the playoffs than that's fair. However. my all time favorite player has been just as, or even more, responsible for those 4 playoff losses. Brett has said a number of times, if he plays well the team has a great shot at winning. Without rehashing history, Brett did not play well against St. Louis, Atlanta, Philadelphia or Minnesota in the playoffs.

    Sherman can take some of the blame for the team not winning those games but Brett must also be accountable. I don't see the Sherman bashers suggesting we get rid of Favre because of playoff failures over the last 4 years, nor am I.

    If we are being fair about the whole issue, Sherman got what he deserved. TT watched him closely for months and then gave him a modest extension.
  15. kuston
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    kuston Cheesehead

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    http://www.packers.com/team/how_built/

    I wouldn't say the '03 is so bad. Barnett & Harris are proven, if 1 more can show up this class will be a winner.

    The '04 class has potential, Corey Williams, Wells, & Jenkins all look like players. Carrol, Thomas, & Sanders will be given valuable playing time year to improve. Bedell has already made the team.

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