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The Packers defense will improve if????

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by rodell330, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. rodell330
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    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    We can get either a DE or NT that can command a double team from time to time to take pressure off Matthews and Tramon williams regains his 2010 form. I've even flirted with the ideal of moving Bishop to the right outside linebacker spot due to his ability to bltz.. supposedly he's solid in coverage as well.
  2. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I didn't realize you were in charge of the roster! Hahaha, couldn't let it go without a little carp flinging.

    Most of us would agree that the defense could improve with better players. Of course, we all argue endlessly about the best method of doing so. Knowing how this team currently operates, my guess is that the defense will improve if our draft picks and rostered players stay healthy. I don't see us adding significant depth at any position, so health is the main way that I see us improving at this point.
  3. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    The defense will be improved if: Perry stays healthy and plays with an attitude; A UFA, draftee, Jennings, or McMillian step up at the safety spot opposite Burnett and makes plays; and they find another pass rusher on the DL.

    I don't think Bishop at ROLB makes any sense - he's too light to defend the rush from that spot and IMO it's Matthews' best spot. If Perry continues his progress from last year, there'll be no need to mess with either OLB spot. And Bishop's forte is rushing from inside and if he's 100% he'll add a lot to the D from the ILB spot.

    McCarthy often talks about the jump that can occur from year one to year two in the NFL. Here's a list of players on D that will have a chance to make that jump: Daniels, Perry, Moses, Manning, Hayward, McMillian, Richardson, and Worthy. Richardson and Worthy have to overcome injuries to contribute but the rest have a real chance to make a difference on D. Daniels could be that missing consistent pass rusher in the nickel and dime. Perry could become a fixture opposite Matthews for seasons to come. And Moses has a chance to improve the pass rush in the nickel and dime, too. If Hayward improves on his rookie year, holy crap! And if McMillian gets a better handle on his responsibilities he could be the answer next to Burnett and perhaps be an enforcer in the DB. Of course none of that could happen, but if just a couple make significant strides, they'll play into Thompson's philosophy of draft and develop and the D will continue its improvement.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. mradtke66
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    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    Yeah, that's not a good idea. Ignore the label "linebacker." 3-4 OLBs have more in common with 4-3 ends. 3-4 ILBS = 4-3 MLB and WLB.
  5. rodell330
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    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    I hear you but it's not like he can't gain a few pounds right? Anyways James Harrison isn't the biggest guy either but he's had some success being a smaller OLB in a 3-4 ijs. I do believe Perry can be a solid contributor but he looks bad in coverage. I'd hate to see a 1st round guy just be a situational player so he must improve in that area.
  6. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Let's not forget that Perry was a rookie given ZERO time to learn the pro game. I truly detest when fans discard rookies that had to start from Day 1. These guys often need an offseason or two to mentally understand the flow of the game better and improve their skills. I does not happen in-season because you never have real time to reflect. Game film is about assignment correction and planning for the next game, not real improvement.
  7. GWheels
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    GWheels Cheesehead

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    I think the D will be improved if they just get back to the fundamentals. We were a a bad tackling team last year. To many yards after the first contact was given up.
  8. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    And Moses is our poor man's Harrison
  9. HardRightEdge
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    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    There's gotta be some kind of Promised Land quip to go with that.
  10. texaspackerbacker
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    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Perry is the biggest hope for improvement. I kinda like that idea Rodell had of moving Bishop to the outside also, but I seriously doubt it would ever happen. There are actually a lot of things that need to happen for the Packers defense to be any more than mediocre. Somehow we need at least one decent 3-4 DE. Maybe Neal; Maybe draft somebody like Jesse Williams; Whatever. Also, somebody needs to come through at Safety - McMillian maybe. Aside from all that, all we need is good health and nobody taking a sudden dropoff in performance - not much hahaha.
  11. adambr2
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    1) Perry and Bishop - LB play was a huge problem in San Francisco. The health and productivity of these two will be huge in determining if we are able to keep something like that from happening again and have a productive D this year.

    2) Improved safety play - We need someone other than Burnett to step up -- whether it be a safety we draft this year (it's a great class) or McMillian or Jennings stepping up. I like McMillian and Jennings to some degree, but I'm not sure how high their ceilings are.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Comments like bold hurt my life. I'm not repeating why and posting that forsaken article again. I really hope Neal finally figures out how to play the run.

    Bish to OLB is almost as bad an idea as Clay to ILB or Perry to DE. Wants no parts of that.
    Jennings is presumably at his ceiling. McMillian's is considerably higher, especially if he can improve his deep game. This year's safety class has a lot of McMillian clones without the ceiling. Not a lot of true deep safeties, even fewer with any glimmer of stud potential, but a few tweeners in Burnett's mold that we could grab that might work if they have the speed to translate their game to the next level, most of whom don't.
  13. texaspackerbacker
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    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Hypon, I wish you would be a little less vague. You don't think we need better DE play? Or you don't care for Jesse Williams? Or you don't think there is hope for Neal to step up? What "hurts your life"? As for Perry, I agree there is no way he is a 3-4 DE, but given a little learning and experience, I think he could be something close to - although not quite as good as - Matthews at OLB. And what's wrong with Rodell's suggestion of Bishop at OLB? He has shown pass rush ability, and we kinda have a glut of all equal talent at ILB now.

    The Packers for a long time have preferred smaller cover safeties - or deep safeties if that's what you want to call them instead of big hitters that are liabilities in coverage. That suits me fine, and I don't think we are too far from where we need to be in that area. It's the front seven that's the problem, or let's say all of the front seven other than Matthews.
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  14. DevilDon
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    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    My guess is that he means Jesse Williams is not really a 3-4 DE but a NT. He can play DE but he doesn't have the quicks or body for it.
  15. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I love me some Jesse Williams, but immediately dropping Neal's name (despite MM's recent comments that he will be more of a factor next year) shows a muddled understanding of our system. I've said this a hundred times, and I'm sure most of the guys here are sick of watching me post it: "Wilson is listed as the starter for a reason." Neal and Daniels are BOTH better pass rushers, even Worthy, yet Wilson got the nod. Why? There is a reason, and it's actually pretty obvious (though a little deeper than Neal is coming off an injury and a suspension, and Daniels and Worthy are rookies) if you think about it for half a second. It's because our DL isn't rushing the passer, it's trying (and failing) to stop the run. Our 34 is so traditional (DL plays the run, and all the pressure comes from the OLB) that it isn't funny, yet fans keep expecting us to draft a pass rushing DE for some odd reason. It won't happen, not unless the guy is also great against the run. Trgovac has even said that 3/4 of the time the DL is not looking to put pressure on the QB. The biggest problem with our defense is a complete and total lack of discipline that allows running lanes to open up like a Starbucks in Seattle, and a complete failure to communicate in the secondary. An intelligent Safety will fix the latter, the former should have been dealt with by the coaches ages ago. As much as I love Pickett, he and Raji are the leaders on that DL and that's a big part of the problem. Raji gets undisciplined because he's young and gets headstrong, but Pickett has no excuse at this point. Yes, we need better DE play, but one is only fooling himself by thinking Neal is the answer until Neal shows that he can actually play the run decent enough to warrant a starting spot.

    Yes, Perry has the potential to be great at OLB! Apparently a single wrist injury his rookie year disqualifies him from that the way you hear some people talk. People get so desperate to fix the DL they lose all semblance of reason and go full retard sometimes. Was an example listed of something I've actually heard people say to show equivalent ridiculousness from my perspective to Rodell's idea to move Bishop to OLB.

    Fit is the problem. Clay was getting WAY too beat up on the strong side, and thrives at ROLB. Bishop has been our best ILB, but he can't really take the strong side either. Plus as you pointed out, with Perry potentially emerging at OLB, what's the point? Why turn our best ILB into a backup at ROLB? All that does is take a playmaker off the field. I could see him getting rotated over there when Clay steps out for a play or two or maybe takes an occasional snap on the strong side, but overall it just seems nonsensical to me. When you consider that Jones can also play ROLB, Moses doesn't play the run well enough to warrant extensive use on the strong side, and ROLB is the only OLB spot Lattimore plays, ROLB is almost as crowded as ILB, maybe more so. We really do need more guys for the strong side...

    I love our Safety mold. Capers says that we don't have FS or SS in our system, but rather that both are interchangeable. That's stretching it a bit, but essentially true. Generally you have a low safety that covers TE/Slot WR and supports the run, and a deep safety whose job is self explanatory. Teams can get by with only one low safety, but if you want to run 2 deep shell coverage, you have to have at least two, preferably three deep safeties on your raster just in case. Last season we had 3 low safeties on the roster, and the only two on our current roster who can play deep safety are the very same two who played it last season. Both are in contract years and the way we run our safety spot takes a lot of football IQ and speed. It puts a premium on reps. I'm not a big fan of Jennings (the only other deep safety on the roster besides Burnett, who doesn't have the range to be a true deep safety) If one of those two guys goes down, I'm very uncomfortable. This year's draft however is short on viable deep safety prospects, even more so when you consider that two of the better DS prospects have serious off field concerns. The sad part is that Burnett needs a true DS to fully bring out his potential as a tweener. As I have explained, most of the safeties in this year's draft are low safeties, or tweeners who don't have the speed to translate their game to the next level, especially with our system. Was in response to this year being great for safeties. Not exactly, depends on what you want.

    I see Williams as completely capable of playing either DE or NT for us. The length Trg is now blaming his failure on a lack thereof isn't exactly there, but I'd still love to see "Aussie Thunder" don some green and gold.
  16. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I agree Wilson starts in the base D because (considering the alternatives) he's stout against the run. According to McGinn, for the first time since 2007 a player other than Pickett led the DL in tackles per snap and that was Wilson. But he's not the prototypical 3-4 DE as Canty is when healthy - perhaps that's what some Packers fans are hoping for (a prototypical 3-4 DE, not necessarily Canty). And I agree the DL in the base play the run first but I also think it's important to note that the Packers play nickel and dime more than they play base. And that of course means two DL instead of three and that also means Wilson comes off the field a lot. I'd be interested in Trgo's comments about how often the two DL in the nickel and dime are looking to pressure the QB. Looking at who they have play the majority of those snaps I'd guess more than 1/4th of the time.

    BTW, I think Pickett has a great excuse: After 5 seasons of leading the DL in tackles per snap he finished second in that category last season. He's going to be 34 this season and has a dozen years of NFL wear and tear on his body! I'd love to see his replacement drafted early this draft but he's been a great Packer IMO.

    Regarding safety, I would have liked to see Huff signed because of his range and experience. Who knows - maybe he didn't want to come to Green Bay, but the contract reported looked very reasonable to me. A name not mentioned a lot at safety is Richardson as a possibility, probably because he's a long shot. I thought it was questionable whether or not he'd be healthy enough for the start of TC but the recent Cheesehead TV piece says barring a setback, he will be. At 6-2, 215 pounds and according to Cheesehead TV he ran a 4.47 40, he has the physical attributes. The question, in addition to his health, will be whether or not he can handle it mentally. I hope he's working his arse off in that regard. One other point about the draft and safety is I believe Nick Collins was viewed by some teams as a CB in the 2005 draft. I have no idea whether or not a CB in this draft is being viewed similarly by the Packers, just saying it's a possibility.
  17. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Nickel men are even more set IMO. It's Matthews, Daniels, Neal, Perry, and that's a set I'm comfortable with. Perry is going to have a big effect in that role when he returns. I really don't want to see us draft another one dimensional 2 tech and try to make him fit...

    Alright. I think it's really more of an attitude thing but I see where you're at with that one. Pickett is going to be a really annoying void to fill because of all that he brings. I've said for a while that he's our best DL.

    I'm kind of amazed that Richardson clung to the roster. As you said, it's a long shot, and he didn't see many starter snaps. Powell was actually a CB, and I'm a little surprised to see we moved him. There are several CB who have potential at S in this year's draft, but after waiting for Collins, and knowing how valuable experience is for S in a Lebeau 34, I'd be hesitant to use a convert. Doesn't mean I wouldn't if I had to. I reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaally hope we fix that communication problem...
  18. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    Our opponents offence don`t turn up :laugh:
  19. joshsup17
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    joshsup17 Cheesehead

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    offense

    Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
  20. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    DAMN YOU AUTOCORRECT!!!
  21. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    I stand corrected...lol :laugh:
  22. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Sorry, it's a meme that used to be popular this side of the pond.
  23. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    I prefer offence........(typed from my freakin keyboard, on my lap) :p
  24. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    We simply have to get more pressure on the QB and before someone pulls up the sacks thing it doesn't tell the entire story. We simply didn't do a good enough job of applying pressure to the QB on a consistent basis. And we need to tackle better. Some of the guys who missed a lot of tackles are no longer with the team and some are. Burnett missed a lot as did Williams. I really believe the most critical need on the Packers team is a DT. That doesn't mean we don't also need a Safety, LT, or OLB.

    I think I've posted this thought about 15 times.
  25. adambr2
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    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Another guy we shouldn't overlook is House. Remember, he actually had Shields and Hayward beat out in preseason before he got hurt. If he comes into the season fully healthy, it will be interesting to see how he figures into the mix - especially if T. Williams continues to regress.

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