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The case for getting an OL in the 1st round

Discussion in '2010 Draft Archive' started by PackersRS, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Now, I'm not going to pretend I know or have the slightest idea of what the heck Ted Thompson will do on draft day. It's easier to predict who's going to win the SB next year now than do that.

    I'm here to make a case for drafting the best OL available when we pick.

    There are tiers of OL.

    The first one consists of Russel Okung. Alone.

    In the second one there's Antonhy Davis, Trent Williams, Bryan Bulaga, Charles Brown, Bruce Campbell and the only not OT in Mike Iupati. All of them have flaws, some are better at pass protect, some in the running game, some are more ready to play, some have more upside... But all in all, they make for one big tier.

    The third tier is made of Maurkice Pouncey, Selvish Capers, Vladmir Ducasse, Kyle Colloway, Jon Asamoah and Jared Veldheeh. All of them aren't ready to start yet, have big flaws in their game, but have very good upside.

    The thing is, the second tier won't go past the top 10 of the 2nd round. We simply won't get a player that'll help us this year, if we don't get an OL with our first rounder.

    However, other positions, like OLB, CB, S, ILB, DE and RB are much deeper.

    The dropoff from their first tiers to the second and third tiers isn't that deep, and we can get some solid contributors with our 4th or 5th rounder.

    We can get guys like Corey Wootton, Reshad Jones, Perish Cox or Koa Misi with our 2nd rounder.

    There's a big discussion between who's a 2nd rounder, a 3rd or a 4th rounder.

    I've heard Perish Cox listed as someone's 3rd best CB, and going in the early 2nd, to not being even in the top 5, and going in the late 3rd.

    The same can be said of Tyson Alualu, of Chad Jones (though his range probably won't drop from the early 3rd round), and so on.

    In those positions, there're a clear top tier, and then a huge 2nd tier, with a lot of different opinions about each player.

    S: There's Eric Berry, Earl Thomas, Taylor Mays (though I think he's a 3rd rounder), and then there's a lot of names, like Nate Allen, Chad Jones, Reshad Jones, Darrell Stuckey, Morgan Burnett and Myron Rolle.

    CB: It's even worse. There's Joe Haden atop everybody's list, and then a complete caos of opinions. You could find gems like Cox, Donovan Warren, Brandon Ghee, Dominique Franks, Javier Arenas and such as far as the late 3rd round.

    OLB: There isn't a guy slated to go even in the top 25. The first one, projected as a 3-4 OLB, is Brandon Graham, but Jerry Huges, Koa Misi, Ricky Sapp and Sergio Kindle are slated to go from 2nd to early 3rd round.
    The dropoff to Jason Worilds, Eric Norwood and such is bigger, but OLB isn't that big of a need, considering how Brad jones played.

    ILB: There's only Rolando McClain in the 1st tier, but he's a surefire top 10 pick. Brandon Spikes ranges from the top 20 to the early 3rd round. Plus, there's a lot of quality out there, up to the 4th round with Pat Angerer, Darril Washington from TCU could be picked in the 3rd round. The ILB position in the draft is usually overlooked, unless it's a gamechanger, with amazing physical tools and comprehension of offenses.

    DE: There's Suh atop the entire draft, there's Odrick that projects as an DE going in the first, but there's quality in almost every round. Wootton is 2nd, Carrington could be 2nd or 3rd, same as Mike Neal, Tyson Alualu could be a 3rd or 4th rounder...

    RB: Since this is the least needed position, we could find the change of pace back in the 3rd with McCluster, McNight, or get a big guy like Toby Gerhard. The only trully elite guy is C.J. Spiller. Jahvid Best, Jonathan Dwyer and Ryan Matthews are the guys considered as possible franchise backs, and their range is the late second. But we don't need that position.

    -

    The point of this thread is, we can get guys that will contribute right away, and possibly be solutions to our team in the other positions with the rest of our picks.

    But if we don't use our 1st rounder on an OL, chances are pretty slim we'll fix the OL this year through the draft.

    I'm not affirming this will happen, as there're allways the T.J. Langs of the 4th round and Tom Brady of the 6th to prove otherwise, but those are extreme rarities.

    This draft is filled with S, CB, ILB, OLB and KR, luckily for us. But it's not with OL. The class is deep in the OL, but will run out very fast.
  2. AllouezPackerFan
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    AllouezPackerFan Section 121 Row 47

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    To me there is no doubt that we NEED TO draft an OL first. This is a must. We need to take an OL first and a safety second. We can get depth at other positions after that, but right now I honestly believe that our offensive line is the thing that needs immediate improvement.
  3. PackersRS
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    I think we can get safety later on, unless Chad Jones falls to us.

    But I'd target CB at the 2nd round, or an OLB.
  4. claybillings
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    claybillings Cheesehead

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    Whatever the case is come draft day I completely agree with your analysis. We don't even need to sign either of our current tackles if we draft and use FA correctly. Build depth along the line through FA (2 middle of the pack OL who could be coached up) and slap TJ Lang over at RT and draft a 1st round LT. Hopefully one of our FA's will be a LT and we can use him there until our rookie is good enough to supplant him.

    This is the deepest defensive draft in years, and as such we should take advantage of the talent that will be later in the draft. I just hope TT see's it this way
  5. Cincinnati Cheesehead
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    I completely agree with your analysis. I was really wondering everyone's feelings about really pursuing a Free Agent LT. Do you guys think Penn, Gaither, Bushrod or Brown would be a better option than a 1st pick Tackle. They each would probably draw a 1st and a 3rd pick. Now I've watched a lot of Gaither and believe he is a great LT and he is only 24. Another good thing is Ravens have Oher so it might be easier to get Gaither. I was just wondering everyones feelings. Would you rather take Bulaga, Brown or Campbell in the first of trade that pick for one of those other guys?
  6. PackersRS
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    I'm really into Penn, but the only surefire guy is Jamaal Brown.

    But if it were for me, I'd trade my first rounder for Penn, Brown and Gaither, though the latter is much better at run support than in pass protection.

    Bushrod I wouldn't let a 4th rounder for him.
  7. Cincinnati Cheesehead
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    I concur. I would love to add a proven LT to protect Rodgers and I think we can a secondary guy in the 2nd that can start for Harris since he wont be ready till week five. I think adding that LT, another pass rushing OLB and another CB and it would instantly push us to a legit super bowl run. If Rodgers stays upright the first 8 games last year I think he would have had a legit chance of breaking the records of Marino's yards and Brady's tds. Adding the LT this season I'm almost certain he could have a run at it.
  8. NYPacker
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    Gaither would be impossible to get. Reports have it that the Ravens are really liking him and his agent is already in talks for a long time contract. Even with Michael Oher they want to have two maulers on either side of the line. However I do believe the other RFA's are worth taking a look at. Penn is no doubt a great player however a 1st and a 3rd would be a little too excessive. Sure the guy is well experienced and young in the NFL but only the best of the best command a high tender, for Penn I just don't get that feeling. Rather I would take Charles Brown in the first round of the draft. I think that within a year this guy would be a quality blind side protector.
  9. Jess
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    Quite frankly, you're probably right. It's just so hard, as a fan, to get excited over an offensive linemen, though. Sure it's probably what we need, but it isn't flashy.

    I still want a corner. I think the need for depth there is more pressing because you and I have no freaking clue how Harris will recover from his injury. He old. He might never be the same.
  10. Cincinnati Cheesehead
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    Tis true Jess. I think getting Perrish Cox in the 2nd could be great for us. He could possibly win the starting job with Harris out. The could then try to easy Harris in to see if he is able to compete at the same level. I do think if Tramon Williams could settle down a little with the pass interference and tighten up he could excel at corner.
  11. NYPacker
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    Does anyone here like the idea of the Packers taking Bruce Campbell in the first round? Personally I like the kid but I want someone who doesn't get hurt a lot. Any thoughts?
  12. claybillings
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    Honestly im sick of these project picks at OL. He just need ourselves a solid LT, doesn't have to have some incredible upside, someone who is solid and proven so we can just stick them right in there.
  13. PackersRS
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    Campbell cannot start right now.

    A lot of people were saying the same thing about Oher, but that's how I feel.

    However, I think he has the most upside in all OTs, together with Charles Brown and Okung.

    Campbell is better at run blocking than Brown, but Brown has better hands at pass pro.
  14. NYPacker
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    I completely agree Campbell is regarded as one of the more ready O-lineman for this draft. But the thing is I don't want a guy who plays stellar in games 1-3 and all of a sudden goes down in the IR considering how often it's happened to packers players in the last 2 years.
  15. PackersRS
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    You think he's one of the most ready? I think, besides Brown, he's the most raw prospect between the elite...

    I don't know about his injury proneness...
  16. spack84
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    If any line man that could fall to the Packers could be Campball. Question would be is he the best player there on the Packers board? I really do think the tackles will be off before the Packers pick and send them in another direction.
  17. spack84
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    Campbell had some injury problem through his college career. Including missing three games due to knee injuries and turf toe in 2009. He is raw, but with the right coaching he has the making's to become a long time starter. It's a risk through to take a raw prospect and with his injury problems. Still I can see a team drafting him before the Packers pick.

    The only problem I see with Brown. Is his lack of upper body strength, if he show at the combine that he improved in that area, he could be one of the top 5 offensive lineman to go.
  18. turbo69
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    After the first 3 or 4 OT's are off the board, their is a dropoff in talent. More than likely, they will be gone when the Pack picks at 23. That is why I think we should take Mike Iupati (OG) if he is still there. We need a anchor kinda guy and I think he would be just that. A instant upgrade over any on our roster. In the second round we could pick up maybe a replacement for Clifton. Someone who can learn and be a backup until he would start next year, or if Clifton gets banged up. Maybe Ciron Black or Roger Saffold. Take the best OLB in the 3rd, Saftey in the 4th, CB in the 5th, and get Mesko or the Ray Guy award winner from Georgia to Punt. Problem solved.
  19. ThinkICare
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    Pretty sure the punter from Georgia won't be in the 2010 draft.
  20. PackersRS
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    There's reports from scouts that the talent pool of NFL STARTERS, not just future pro bowlers, or guys that can immediate help, but guys that can be more than backups, end in the first round.

    I find it a bit too much. The draft is crazy. Nobody regarded Tom Brady even as an NFL QB, let alone one of the best.

    But the point is that it's thin after the first round.

    You can find a T.J. Lang, but the odds are greatly in your favor.
  21. NYPacker
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    Yes but does guard really outweigh the need for tackle? Even if all the good Tackles are off the board it might be worth it to reach for someone say Charles Brown. Even if he doesn't succeed at tackle we can always move him to guard. Either way we are going to get a kickass guard but reaching for an OT gambles on an extra benefit.
  22. turbo69
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    I don't think guard outweighs the need for a OT, but I don't think their is much difference from Charles Brown to a guy like Selvish Capers, Ciron Black or a few others (2nd round). A dominating LG prospect would go a long ways building a dominant offensive line for years to come. Sure Iupati will go through some growing pains, but he is better than any LG we have on the roster. My understanding is he is a fast learner, very intelligent, and with a full training camp under his belt and focusing 100% on football, the guy is going to rule. As I stated in a different thread, our OL problems are not just 1 guy.
  23. PackersRS
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    I disagree.

    I think the difference between Charles Brown, Anthony Davis, Bryan Bulaga, Trent Williams and Bruce Campbell to the other guys is astonishing. I'm not including Okung in the same sentence, because I think Okung is better than the ones I mentioned.

    I think if Brown shows in a good weight (300 pounds) and benchpresses nicely (30 at least), we ought to take him, given that he falls to us.

    I can't see any flaw in his game, other than his weight, and PROJECTED strenght, because the strenght on film is there.

    Well, his run support from 08 is lacking, but in 09 is very good, specially in his recognition. He lacks a little bit of mean streak, but so did Ryan Clady...
  24. turbo69
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    Here is some information on all starting left tackles this past year, and what round they were drafted.

    AFC
    Colts: Charlie Johnson (sixth)
    Titans: Michael Roos (second) Pro Bowler
    Texans: Duane Brown (first, No. 26)
    Jaguars: Eugene Monroe (first, No. 8 )
    Steelers: Max Starks (third)
    Browns: Joe Thomas (first, No. 3) Pro Bowler
    Ravens: Jared Gaither (fifth)
    Bengals: Andrew Whitworth (second)
    Jets: D’Brickashaw Ferguson (first, No. 4) Pro Bowler
    Patriots: Sebastian Vollmer (second) [Starter on IR: Matt Light, (second), Pro Bowler]
    Dolphins: Jake Long (first, No. 1) Pro Bowler
    Bills: Jonathan Scott (fifth)
    Chargers: Marcus McNeill (second)
    Raiders: Mario Henderson (third)
    Chiefs: Branden Albert (first, No. 15)
    Broncos: Ryan Clady (first, No. 12) Pro Bowler

    NFC
    Bears: Orlando Pace (first, No. 1) Pro Bowler
    Packers: Chad Clifton (second)
    Lions: Jeff Backus (first, No. 18)
    Vikings: Bryant McKinnie (first, No. 7) Pro Bowler
    49ers: Joe Staley (first, No. 28)
    Cardinals: Jeremy Bridges (sixth)
    Rams: Alex Barron (first, No. 19)
    Seahawks: Sean Locklear (third) [Starter on IR: Walter Jones, (first, No. 6), Pro Bowler]
    Cowboys: Flozell Adams (second) Pro Bowler
    Eagles: Jason Peters (undrafted) Pro Bowler
    Redskins: Levi Jones (first) [Starter on IR: Chris Samuels, (first, No. 3), Pro Bowler]
    Giants: David Diehl (fifth) Pro Bowler
    Saints: Jermon Bushrod (fourth) [Starter on IR: Jammal Brown, (first, No. 13), Pro Bowler]
    Buccaneers: Donald Penn (undrafted)
    Panthers: Jeff Otah (first) [Starter on IR: Jordan Gross, (first, No. 8), Pro Bowler]
    Falcons: Sam Baker (first, No. 21)
  25. PackersRS
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