State of the Line Offensive Line Coach/Scheme/Players

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
I agree McCarthy was foolish for not protecting Rodgers more when it was obvious the OL was struggling mightily. He’s done it in the past too – even when it was just one player on the OL struggling. I get the idea of adhering to the “next man up” principle – that the Packers don’t change their game plan because of injury. That’s probably supposed to instill confidence in the replacement player. But the principle of protecting your franchise QB is more important to me.

BTW, who is making the decision to stick with the status quo – Lang at RT - on the OL? McCarhty? Campen? That’s why IMO those advocating that the replacement of Campen will fix the problems on the OL don’t have enough information to make that call. I’d like to see Barclay replace Lang at RT so only one spot would be affected by Bulaga’s absence. If the rest of the OL is solid McCarthy would only have to help out the RT. (But the rest of the OL hasn’t been solid.) But I don’t have enough information to predict how well Barclay would do at that spot. Those advocating for Datko to start have no information to support their opinion. Datko resides on the PS along with Joe Gibbs, an OG (why not advocate for his promotion to the active roster?). Meanwhile G/T Barclay and OG Greg Van Roten are on the active roster. If the Packers believed Datko was the best backup at OT, why wouldn’t they have Barclay and Datko on the active roster? The answer IMO is easy: If they believed that, they would. Of course every decision any person or organization makes isn’t correct. My point here is just that the team has much more information about these players than we do. And regarding Datko, we have almost none.
 

melvin dangerr

In it to Win it All
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
3,650
Reaction score
949
Location
ST Croix VI
I only addressed your comment about the LB's. As far as our D goes, the calls have been as you said fraudulent. Makes me wonder what the hell we pay McCurley for. I've seen sporadic bouts of tackling in the secondary which tells me it IS being taught, so I tend to put that more on the players, which leads to blame Whitt and Perry for not, shall we say... persuading? our players to implement it more often, whether the cause there may be: no negative reinforcement for not implementing outside of drills ie in practice/game or no positive reinforcement for implementation in the same situations (you play how you practice). Not sure who the round guys are, but if you mean the DL, those are Trgovac's boys. The players are to blame for their play, the position coaches are to blame for not correcting the players, Moss (assistant head coach) and Capers is to blame for not getting on the players, the players are at fault for not executing the calls, Capers is on the hook for bad calls, McCurley is on the hook for not advising Capers (unless Capers is ignoring him) McCarthy is at fault for not straightening out Capers, Ted is at fault for hiring McCarthy and drafting players who won't/can't execute, and Murphy is ultimately at fault for not fixing the entire situation. All in all, I don't know enough about what is actually being done to say what the problem is, too many variables and possible causes. The main problem I see is a pervading attitude of "everything is alright as long as we win, it doesn't matter how poorly we (insert action here) so long as we win, because that shows we can overcome our flaws, so we don't need to fix them, all because we won." just MHO on what I sense. I'm probably just as bad because I'm willing to let it go on (though I would rather play well and lose than play poorly and win) and trust that things will get fixed one way or another. Blame everybody. Happy?
Very..Thank You
 

melvin dangerr

In it to Win it All
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
3,650
Reaction score
949
Location
ST Croix VI
Agree...you can be the best coach in the world when it comes to schemes, X's and O's but if you don't have any talented guy's to coach up then it's pointless. TT has failed in finding stellar linemen in the draft, and MM and the coaching staff have failed on getting what they have to work with to at least perform at an average level. Fail all the way around to this point.
Have we ever had a Dominant O'lineman, since the 60's?
 

Shawnsta3

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
1,273
Reaction score
137
Location
Manawa & Shawano, WI
Barclay did pretty well run blocking (against an admittedly not so stellar group) Which is pretty much the best you could say out of any of our linemen all year. Kudos to him.
 

JBlood

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
3,159
Reaction score
467
Barclay looked solid, and I've got to give it to McGinn, TJV, and others who were calling for him to play. Hopefully, he's the real deal.
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
Barclay looked solid, and I've got to give it to McGinn, TJV, and others who were calling for him to play. Hopefully, he's the real deal.
I appreciate the mention, but I was advocating Barclay start at RT with Lang at LG; the coaching staff clearly didn't agree with that but only played Barclay at RT when they had no other choice. BTW, I really liked the first play call after Barclay entered the game: They ran the ball to his side giving him the opportunity to fire into his opponent rather than "catch" him in pass protection. I also appreciated McCarthy giving him help on passing plays instead of pretending there should be no change in the play calling.
 

adambr2

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
4,013
Reaction score
609
So assuming Lang will be back next week, are we all in general agreement that moving Lang back to guard and putting Barclay in at RT gives us the best chance going forward?
 

7thFloorRA

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
2,573
Reaction score
331
Location
Grafton, WI
So assuming Lang will be back next week, are we all in general agreement that moving Lang back to guard and putting Barclay in at RT gives us the best chance going forward?
I am in complete agreement. The next 4 weeks are all teams that can be run on and he seemed just fine with his run blocking. I don't know if MM has it in him to play this kid over EDS. He never benches anyone. I am guessing that Lang won't play because no one has returned from injury quickly this season other than Finley. I can't believe they didn't either x-ray lang or tape him back up.
 

adambr2

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
4,013
Reaction score
609
I'll be really frustrated if they go back to the status quo, which was failing miserably, and won't cut it against teams like the Giants and 49ers in the playoffs.

It's almost just simple math. Lang is a far better Guard than EDS, but he is not a good Tackle. So far, at least, Barclay seems to hold his own at Tackle. He's going to have some bumps along the way, but he's also going to gain experience and probably give us the best chance we can to protect Rodgers in the playoffs. Why not give it a shot?
 

Grave

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
325
Reaction score
45
Case in point- Campen's been watching Barclay since Summer. It took an emergency for the guy to get into a game. He looked pretty good.

I wonder how many guys remember Campen wanted to replace Wells? The Colledge experiment? The Barbre experiment? Hopefully now we can ignore Campen's incompetence, move Lang to LG and play Barclay as we go to 12-4. And all you Campen jocks can devote yourselves to you rpaper roputes.

Kudos to the Packer Fans who called enough attention to the problem to finally get something done. Thank you!
 

HyponGrey

Caseus Locutus Est
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
3,758
Reaction score
221
Location
South Jersey
Yeah, it would be nice to have an OL coach who can actually contribute a valid opinion on draft prospects.
 

Grave

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
325
Reaction score
45
Yeah, it would be nice to have an OL coach who can actually contribute a valid opinion on draft prospects.

Some of these guys are happy with Rodgers being beaten up every game. Go figure.
 

Grave

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
325
Reaction score
45
From what I've read, the Packers have used both zone blocking and power blocking on various plays during most of MM's time, but maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, the same personnel dominate at times, and are dominated at times. Seems as much mental as anything.[/quote

The O-lines most frequent block is the "look out Aaron" non-block.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
So assuming Lang will be back next week, are we all in general agreement that moving Lang back to guard and putting Barclay in at RT gives us the best chance going forward?
I'm not convinced that's the way to go, but I wouldn't complain if that's the way it shakes out. If nothing else, they'll have to give Barkley regular help, which limits the number of 4 and 5 wide spread jail breaks which I'm beginning to find tiresome for their ineffectiveness under the pass rush duress. Time to adjust to current realities.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Ruettgers was pretty good. Timmerman, Wahle, Flanagan were good. In the fat guy era, athleticism in the O-line is just about gone.

These guys may be fat, but they're plenty athletic...the good ones anyway.
 
P

Packerfan1977

Guest
My opinion is that it's not as much Campen as it is the scheme. If you put a hat in an area the D schemes to not be in certain areas, and breaks through where there isn't a hat, or chases the play down from behind. If you ran a scheme where you put a hat on a hat you'd get things block better in my opinion
 

Grave

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
325
Reaction score
45
I was very pleased this morning to read in jsonline that the Packers now agree (finally) that Rodgers must be kept upright by bailing out an incompetent O-line. My sincerest thanks to all you Packer fans who have raised bigtime hell over the punishment our QB has taken and demanded that he be protected. YOU have saved the season! Because of YOU, the sportswriters finally joined the clamor. Because of YOU, Rodgers might well heal up and play lights out again. Should he be so bruised and battered he will not fully heal up; he's still better bruised and battered than most QBs and can get us to 12-4. You guys are the greatest!

Thank YOU! Thank YOU! Thank YOU!
 

Grave

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
325
Reaction score
45
These guys may be fat, but they're plenty athletic...the good ones anyway.

Example: Looking at the last great Packer O-line, Fuzzy Thurston went to Valparaiso on a BB scholarship, Jerry Kramer was a QB, Jim Ringo and Kenny Bowman probably could have played hockey. I don't see any of that going on with the fat guys.
 

Grave

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
325
Reaction score
45
I figured our oline would be average/above average - normal off season, perhaps get Sherrod in the lineup - I figured the whole "jeff saturday is a legend" type of hype would like.... translate to our offense being perhaps better than 2011 .... nope, the blocking has been garbage this year... the annoying thing is it isn't as comical as it was with Allen Barber ... at least then, there wasn't all that much disappointment, more of just "meh" shrug, but now - we've got talented guys like Sitton/Bulaga getting worked by nobodies like Alan Branch. (smh)

Yes. Common sense would lead us to think the line would get better every year. Bu tour lines under Campen have never developed into better. Every year we are near last in the NFL. I have nothing against Campen other than that he has been given the extra mile by the Packers and he has failed. When players fail, they are replaced. Why shouldn't Campen be replaced? He doesn't have to be fired. He just needs to be reassigned.
 

Grave

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
325
Reaction score
45
Here is the problem. The NFL is about parity and while we've done an outstanding job of drafting and retaining players, it is really difficult to do it at all positions. We have outstanding talent at WR and QB on offense while our RB and OL suffers. We have good linebacking and secondary talent but our DL suffers. I think that TT has drafted quite a few linemen so the issue isn't quantity but quality. He's got to hit on more successful linemen. He also needs to be a little more adept at bringing in FA street linemen that can serviceably backup the starters. Where parity comes back to bite you is that as soon as you turn your attention to the OL, another group begins to suffer. It's like having 6 holes in a **** but only 5 fingers. We addressed the defense primarily last year and will have problems elsewhere when/if we draft a bunch of OL next season.

Dilfer is right on about blocking but there is no easy fix. In terms of potential talent I think that our OL is average. In reality we play worse than that.

Yes, the NFL is about parity. That makes good coaching even more important.
 

13 Times Champs

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
3,924
Reaction score
424
Location
Virginia
I agree with the posters on moving Lang back to guard. We have weakened two positions by moving Lang to Tackle. Go with Barclay who is a road grader on running plays. That's what he did a WVA. Give the kid some help on pass protection where he isn't as good.

As far as Campen I think he needs to go. Then get a ol coach that wants to knock someone on their *** and scrap the zone blocking scheme. I don't know whether Campen can't coach it or it's the scheme but a change is necessary in both directions. We've been screaming about the poor play of the Ol for some time now and I don't see it getting better with him.
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
I was very pleased this morning to read in jsonline that the Packers now agree (finally) that Rodgers must be kept upright by bailing out an incompetent O-line. My sincerest thanks to all you Packer fans who have raised bigtime hell over the punishment our QB has taken and demanded that he be protected. YOU have saved the season! Because of YOU, the sportswriters finally joined the clamor. Because of YOU, Rodgers might well heal up and play lights out again. Should he be so bruised and battered he will not fully heal up; he's still better bruised and battered than most QBs and can get us to 12-4. You guys are the greatest!

Thank YOU! Thank YOU! Thank YOU!
Does this board have a "Most Naïve Post of the Year" award? If so, I'd like to nominate this post - funny stuff! :roflmao:
 

7thFloorRA

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
2,573
Reaction score
331
Location
Grafton, WI
Does anyone have a tally on how many penalties EDS has had the last 2 weeks. I think he has at least had 2 holding and 1 false start.
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top