Something seems pretty special about Dujuan Harris..

[HyponGrey]

The NFL continues to draw
From a well that does not exist
Strange

 

[bozz_2006]

Well, and you have to acknowledge that those prototypes don't come out of thin air. They became the prototype for a reason. They look for that size because its guys that fit hat slot that have panned out the most, and it's just one of a ton of factors. The success of those guys contributed to the prototype, and those guys get more shots because of it. Success fuels the prototype , prototype guys are given more chances to succeed. Now, that's shifting, but shifts don't happen quickly. Smaller, more explosive, more powerful, quick, agile guys are a trend. It may lead to a new prototype. But with guys like Peterson and Chris Johnson seeing so much success, it'll be slower than if those guys were compact and powerful too.

 

[GreenBlood]

People look for success inside the mold, success occurring outside the mold does not eliminate the molds existence, especially when there is evidence to suggest you find success more consistently within the mold.

The evidence indicates otherwise. Since you said Harris needs another 15 pounds and 3 inches to be a the size of a typical starter, then it would seem you put the so-called mold at 6'0" and 223 pounds. Let's look at the top 10 rushers this year.

Peterson 6'1" 217
Morris 5'9" 218
Lynch 5'11" 215
Charles 5'9" 199
Martin 5'9" 215
Foster 6'1" 228
Ridley 5'11" 220
Spiller 5'11" 200
Johnson 5'11" 191
Gore 5'9" 217

Average that all out and it looks like if there was any kind of mold, it should be more like 5' 10 3/4 and 212 lbs.

I'd say at 5'9" 208 lbs, Harris's height and weight are pretty consistent with the top starters in the NFL.

 

[FrankRizzo]

The evidence indicates otherwise. Since you said Harris needs another 15 pounds and 3 inches to be a the size of a typical starter, then it would seem you put the so-called mold at 6'0" and 223 pounds. Let's look at the top 10 rushers this year.

Peterson 6'1" 217
Morris 5'9" 218
Lynch 5'11" 215
Charles 5'9" 199
Martin 5'9" 215
Foster 6'1" 228
Ridley 5'11" 220
Spiller 5'11" 200
Johnson 5'11" 191
Gore 5'9" 217

Average that all out and it looks like if there was any kind of mold, it should be more like 5' 10 3/4 and 212 lbs.

I'd say at 5'9" 208 lbs, Harris's height and weight are pretty consistent with the top starters in the NFL.

Where's Ray Rice & Maurice Jones-Drew?
Ahmad Bradshaw?
Darren Sproles?
I think they are all little short guys.
Luv the little guys.
Anyone remember Barry Sanders?

 

[GreenBlood]

Where's Ray Rice & Maurice Jones-Drew?
Ahmad Bradshaw?
Darren Sproles?
I think they are all little short guys.
Luv the little guys.
Anyone remember Barry Sanders?

Only reason I didn't include them is because I went with the top 10 in rushing yards this year.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Only reason I didn't include them is because I went with the top 10 in rushing yards this year.

Wow Ray Rice wasn't even in the top-10?
No wonder why the Ravens fired their offensive coordinator just a few weeks ago, right before the playoffs.

 

[HyponGrey]

The evidence indicates otherwise. Since you said Harris needs another 15 pounds and 3 inches to be a the size of a typical starter, then it would seem you put the so-called mold at 6'0" and 223 pounds. Let's look at the top 10 rushers this year.

Peterson 6'1" 217
Morris 5'9" 218
Lynch 5'11" 215
Charles 5'9" 199
Martin 5'9" 215
Foster 6'1" 228
Ridley 5'11" 220
Spiller 5'11" 200
Johnson 5'11" 191
Gore 5'9" 217

Average that all out and it looks like if there was any kind of mold, it should be more like 5' 10 3/4 and 212 lbs.

I'd say at 5'9" 208 lbs, Harris's height and weight are pretty consistent with the top starters in the NFL.

Now do me a favor and pay attention, because you keep skipping parts of my posts to go to your soapbox. I don't feel like quoting myself.
First off, from Packers.com, which would be his most recent weigh in, and what I use: 5'8 203, though according to my friend's cousin Isaac Redman, it's closer to 5'7. This puts my standard at 5'11 218 and really, as I said, I prefer 5'10 215. Are you with me so far? 5'10 215 Standard, Harris 5'8 203.
Also remember that I said that mold was what the majority of starting backs in the league were, an average if you will. I will now attempt to prove that the mold exists, not how productive you can be within the mold, because I already said production exists outside the mold. Just proving that the mold exists. Still with me?
Now that that's out of the way, lets look at the listed staring backs. From the official team websites:

Ridley 5-11 220 Vereen 5-9 205 Woodhead 5-8 200
Bush 6-0 203
Greene 5-11 226
Spiller 5-11 200 Jackson 6-1 216

Green-Ellis 5-11 220
Rice 5-8 212
Richardson 5-9 230
Dwyer 5-11 229 Mendenhall 5-10 225 Redman 6-0 230
Foster 6-1 229
Ballard 5'10 217
Jones-Drew 5-7 210
Johnson 5-11 191

Charles 5-11 199
McGahee 6-0 235 Moreno 5-11 200
McFadden 6-1 218
Matthews 6-0 218

Murray 6-0 215
Bradshaw 5-10 214 Wilson 5-10 205
McCoy 5-11 208 Brown 6-0 223
Morris 5-10 218

Forte 6-2 218
Leshoure 6-0 227
Green 6-0 225 (listed as our starting back) Grant 6-1 222 Starks 6-2 218 Benson 5-11 227 Harris 5-8 203
Peterson 6-1 217

Turner 5-10 244 Rodgers 5-6 196
Stewart 5-10 235 Williams 5-9 215
Thomas 5-11 215 Ingram 5-9 215 Ivory 6-0 222 Sproles 5-6 190
Martin 5-9 223

Wells 6'2 229 Stephens-Howley 5-7 185
Jackson 6-2 240 Richardson 5-10 196
Gore 5-9 217 Hunter 5-7 200
Lynch 5-11 215

Now, looking at those numbers, it sure seems apparent to me that there is a widespread perception around the league that backs of a certain size range tend to have a greater chance of being productive. It also seems that 5-8 203 Harris does not fit into that range. Now pay VERY close attention to these words: That does not mean Harris cannot be productive. He has been productive for us, and I hope he continues to be for a long time.

Somebody feel free to average some of those.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Jones-Drew 5-7 210
Rice 5-8 212
Gore 5-9 217

Now I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but it seems like some of the best are around his size. Give or take a an inch and some pounds. I like the guys size, speed, and power combination. Now let's throw him the ball in some open space to see what we've got.

 

[HyponGrey]

Jones-Drew 5-7 210
Rice 5-8 212
Gore 5-9 217

Now I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but it seems like some of the best were around his size. Give or take a an inch and some pounds. I like the guys size, speed, and power combination. Now let's throw him the ball in some open space to see what we've got.

Sorry to drag you into this, but you basically hit the crux. Most backs will have either height or weight on him (or both) as opposed to the view held by the other side of the table that most backs only have either height or weight on him (sometimes both)

 

[GreenBlood]

First off, from Packers.com, which would be his most recent weigh in, and what I use: 5'8 203, though according to my friend's cousin Isaac Redman, it's closer to 5'7.

You do know that teams often misreport their players' height and weight to create a certain perception, right? (Heck, the Celtics listed Larry Bird at 6'9" for his entire career, but everyone that played with him said he's closer to 6'11".) The Jaguars listed him as 5'9. So did the Steelers. So does the NFL. I doubt he shrunk an inch since signing with the Packers. The only thing to glean from all the measurements out there is that there is no consensus on his height but it's most likely somewhere between 5'8 and 5'9 with most sources putting him at 5'9. Any 5'7 measurements seem to be drawing from his college days. We all know that men can continue gaining height until about 22 or 23. Subjectively speaking, he doesn't look to be any shorter than Gore, Martin, Charles, or any of the other backs listed as 5'9".

I don't see any reason he can't be a regular starter due to size. None at all.

Now, looking at those numbers, it sure seems apparent to me that there is a widespread perception around the league that backs of a certain size range tend to have a greater chance of being productive.

And Harris is in that range. So what if he's closer to the smaller end of that range?

If you have a specific reason he can't be the starter going into next year, other than his height and weight, then I'd love to hear why that is. You did say he was only backup/COP material.

 

[12theTruth]

Jones-Drew 5-7 210
Rice 5-8 212
Gore 5-9 217

Now I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but it seems like some of the best are around his size. Give or take a an inch and some pounds. I like the guys size, speed, and power combination. Now let's throw him the ball in some open space to see what we've got.

Its hard to compare because these teams do not employ the same type of offense (west coast) as McCarthy does.

Harris's lateral speed is commendable but I highly doubt the Packers could rely on his being a 1st and 2nd down back and if circumstances dictate running 20-25 attempts per game. Most info from what I have seen would indicate his body type isn't conducive. Now for a change of pace back he is PERFECT.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

I agree with GreenBlood on all the points he has raised on this matter on both a factual basis, and also because I get to see Michelle Jenneke do her little dance every time he posts.

Seriously though, I agree that there is an ideal mold out there, but plenty of backs have broke from that through the NFL's history and had a great amount of success. I've not seen Harris give reason, with his on field performance, to think that it may not be the case otherwise at this point. I've stated likewise in a few threads, but to save you all some time in searching: imo; on the filed performance is primary. Everything else is secondary.

 

[HyponGrey]

You do know that teams often misreport their players' height and weight to create a certain perception, right? (Heck, the Celtics listed Larry Bird at 6'9" for his entire career, but everyone that played with him said he's closer to 6'11".) The Jaguars listed him as 5'9. So did the Steelers. So does the NFL. I doubt he shrunk an inch since signing with the Packers. The only thing to glean from all the measurements out there is that there is no consensus on his height but it's most likely somewhere between 5'8 and 5'9 with most sources putting him at 5'9. Any 5'7 measurements seem to be drawing from his college days. We all know that men can continue gaining height until about 22 or 23. Subjectively speaking, he doesn't look to be any shorter than Gore, Martin, Charles, or any of the other backs listed as 5'9".

I don't see any reason he can't be a regular starter due to size. None at all.



And Harris is in that range. So what if he's closer to the smaller end of that range?

If you have a specific reason he can't be the starter going into next year, other than his height and weight, then I'd love to hear why that is. You did say he was backup/COP material.

You say that teams misrepresent their players, then quote two teams, and NFL.com. Now I don't know much about NFL.com, but if you know where they get there information, I'd like to know too. I have a sneaking suspicion that it's from the teams, which would moot it. I have 2 guys who met him (I also know of another guy on a different forum who claims to have met him at the Steelers) saying 5'7, and that was just earlier this year. I'll stick with the official team measurements when making my assessments. Who knows, maybe he lost 7 lbs that week of selling cars lol

I disagree that he is in that range, but I admit that depends on how you look at the numbers.

Nope, pure size. I don't think that with his size combination he'll be able to endure the strain that a full load as a starter would demand, though his time at Troy would suggest that I'm wrong. I believe he'd need to add weight to be a viable starter. Feel free to disagree, It's a matter of opinion.

Glad to see you calmed down.

 

[HyponGrey]

Its hard to compare because these teams do not employ the same type of offense (west coast) as McCarthy does.

Harris's lateral speed is commendable but I highly doubt the Packers could rely on his being a 1st and 2nd down back and if circumstances dictate running 20-25 attempts per game. Most info from what I have seen would indicate his body type isn't conducive. Now for a change of pace back he is PERFECT.

Thanks for the support!

 

[GreenBlood]

You say that teams misrepresent their players, then quote two teams, and NFL.com. Now I don't know much about NFL.com, but if you know where they get there information, I'd like to know too. I have a sneaking suspicion that it's from the teams, which would moot it. I have 2 guys who met him (I also know of another guy on a different forum who claims to have met him at the Steelers) saying 5'7, and that was just earlier this year.

Sorry, but you knowing someone who claims to have met him and says he is 5'7" is meaningless to me. I was in Green Bay visiting friends last month. What if I told you I just happened to find myself in line behind him at KFC and he was no more than two inches shorter than me and I'm 5'11"?

Nope, pure size. I don't think that with his size combination he'll be able to endure the strain that a full load as a starter would demand, though his time at Troy would suggest that I'm wrong. I believe he'd need to add weight to be a viable starter. Feel free to disagree, It's a matter of opinion.

No, it's not simply a matter of opinion. There is precedent. Plenty of it. Since you said you favor the measurements on the Packers website, Barry Sanders was....(drumroll please)..... 5-8, 203! Emmitt Smith was 5-9, 210. Warrick Dunn was scrawny. He was 5-9, 180. Chris Johnson isn't much bigger at 5-9, 191. Joe Morris was 5-8, 195. Brian Westbrook was 5-8, 200.

If he fails to become the starter next year, it will be due to not having the skills to do so, not because of his size.

Glad to see you calmed down.

Likewise.

 

[bozz_2006]

Now do me a favor and pay attention, because you keep skipping parts of my posts to go to your soapbox. I don't feel like quoting myself.
First off, from Packers.com, which would be his most recent weigh in, and what I use: 5'8 203, though according to my friend's cousin Isaac Redman, it's closer to 5'7. This puts my standard at 5'11 218 and really, as I said, I prefer 5'10 215. Are you with me so far? 5'10 215 Standard, Harris 5'8 203.
Also remember that I said that mold was what the majority of starting backs in the league were, an average if you will. I will now attempt to prove that the mold exists, not how productive you can be within the mold, because I already said production exists outside the mold. Just proving that the mold exists. Still with me?
Now that that's out of the way, lets look at the listed staring backs. From the official team websites:

Ridley 5-11 220 Vereen 5-9 205 Woodhead 5-8 200
Bush 6-0 203
Greene 5-11 226
Spiller 5-11 200 Jackson 6-1 216

Green-Ellis 5-11 220
Rice 5-8 212
Richardson 5-9 230
Dwyer 5-11 229 Mendenhall 5-10 225 Redman 6-0 230
Foster 6-1 229
Ballard 5'10 217
Jones-Drew 5-7 210
Johnson 5-11 191

Charles 5-11 199
McGahee 6-0 235 Moreno 5-11 200
McFadden 6-1 218
Matthews 6-0 218

Murray 6-0 215
Bradshaw 5-10 214 Wilson 5-10 205
McCoy 5-11 208 Brown 6-0 223
Morris 5-10 218

Forte 6-2 218
Leshoure 6-0 227
Green 6-0 225 (listed as our starting back) Grant 6-1 222 Starks 6-2 218 Benson 5-11 227 Harris 5-8 203
Peterson 6-1 217

Turner 5-10 244 Rodgers 5-6 196
Stewart 5-10 235 Williams 5-9 215
Thomas 5-11 215 Ingram 5-9 215 Ivory 6-0 222 Sproles 5-6 190
Martin 5-9 223

Wells 6'2 229 Stephens-Howley 5-7 185
Jackson 6-2 240 Richardson 5-10 196
Gore 5-9 217 Hunter 5-7 200
Lynch 5-11 215

Now, looking at those numbers, it sure seems apparent to me that there is a widespread perception around the league that backs of a certain size range tend to have a greater chance of being productive. It also seems that 5-8 203 Harris does not fit into that range. Now pay VERY close attention to these words: That does not mean Harris cannot be productive. He has been productive for us, and I hope he continues to be for a long time.

Somebody feel free to average some of those.

So if they have to fit the mold to be productive, you're saying Dunjuan Harris will never be a productive back?

 

[GreenBlood]

So if they have to fit the mold to be productive, you're saying Dunjuan Harris will never be a productive back?

One problem with his huge list is he highlighted additional height without additional weight as an advantage. It's not. It decreases BMI, which would tend toward lower durability, not higher.

 

[HyponGrey]

So if they have to fit the mold to be productive, you're saying Dunjuan Harris will never be a productive back?

I believe if you look through my posts you will find I've said quite the opposite. Multiple times. Even quoted myself saying the opposite. I'm tired of hearing that I said that when I'm documented saying the opposite. It's ticking me off. READ.THE.THREAD.

One problem with his huge list is he highlighted additional height without additional weight as an advantage. It's not. It decreases BMI, which would tend toward lower durability, not higher.

MM has said that the only thing he doesn't love about Harris is his height.
Official team websites, not just Packers.com, but I'll let that slide. I will say that your list is a good argument, but I'd also say that if Harris fails to become a starter, its more due to the comfort level of the coaches, not necessarily his lack of skills. All depends on who starts over him.

 

[GreenBlood]

MM has said that the only thing he doesn't love about Harris is his height.

That tells me he loves everything else.

 

[bozz_2006]

I believe if you look through my posts you will find I've said quite the opposite. Multiple times. Even quoted myself saying the opposite. I'm tired of hearing that I said that when I'm documented saying the opposite. It's ticking me off. READ.THE.THREAD.

I was just giving you ****, man.

 

[lamboscotland]

Harris making a good impression again

 

[bozz_2006]

My brother pointed out that he wasnt in a single snap on that last FG drive. Is he hurt? Or did they just go with the "assignment sure" Grant?

 

[Wood Chipper]

He seems average to me (we need to draft a better back) but if he doesn't fumble and makes the run game something that defenses need to focus on then I am all for him starting the rest of the playoffs.

 

[GreenBlood]

He seems average to me (we need to draft a better back) but if he doesn't fumble and makes the run game something that defenses need to focus on then I am all for him starting the rest of the playoffs.

What we need is better OL.

 

[Kitten]

Short Stack Pack! I've been noticing Harris and have been very impressed with him!