Solutions to the Offensive Line

[mradtke66]

I know they're two separate things. I only mention Ryan Clady because I was asked to name a player that plays close to perfection. I don't expect Newhouse to be pro-bowl caliber, my concern is accepting "above average" as "good enough," that's all.

Above average is rather impressive though. If we're doing letter grades, that'd be at worst, C+, if not a B.

 

[HyponGrey]

Above average is rather impressive though. If we're doing letter grades, that'd be at worst, C+, if not a B.

C+, maybe a B-

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

Above average is rather impressive though. If we're doing letter grades, that'd be at worst, C+, if not a B.

Maybe for the Bears or other teams who consider it an exception to make the playoffs, but not for a team that is considered an elite team in the NFL. The Bears' goal is to beat the Pack. The Pack's goal is to beat the Niners, (and the other top teams in the other three divisions). C+ isn't good enough against the elite pass rushers the Pack faces such as Aldon Smith, and frankly with Peppers and Allen in our division it's not good enough against them either. If MM isn't shooting for B+ or above then we're settling.

 

[HyponGrey]

Maybe for the Bears or other teams who consider it an exception to make the playoffs, but not for a team that is considered an elite team in the NFL. The Bears' goal is to beat the Pack. The Pack's goal is to beat the Niners, (and the other top teams in the other three divisions). C+ isn't good enough against the elite pass rushers the Pack faces such as Aldon Smith, and frankly with Peppers and Allen in our division it's not good enough against them either. If MM isn't shooting for B+ or above then we're settling.

I don't hold Aldon Elite anymore. Newhouse just needs to hold the fort until Sherrod is ready. Sherrod is a big man with long arms and quicker feet.

 

[13 Times Champs]

C+ is still average at least when I went to school.

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

I don't hold Aldon Elite anymore. Newhouse just needs to hold the fort until Sherrod is ready. Sherrod is a big man with long arms and quicker feet.

Keeling a slightly above average player at our most important position on the line in the hopes a player with Sherrod's injury history doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

 

[HyponGrey]

Keeling a slightly above average player at our most important position on the line in the hopes a player with Sherrod's injury history doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

Its a freaking broken leg!!! That's all. His only other injury that I could find was an injury that held him out one game as a sophomore. Honestly, I don't hear about any other players all of a sudden being worthless for the rest of their careers because of a broken bone. ITS A FREAKIN BROKEN LEG. He'll be fine. Good night, Hakeem Nicks broke his foot and is just fine. Once the pins are set he just needs to get back to form, ITS NOT A BIG DEAL. VERY high recovery rate. We were just being extra careful to make sure he didn't rebreak the freakin thing because that tends to be where things get complicated. I repeat, HE WILL BE FINE.

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

Its a freaking broken leg!!! That's all.

Broken tibia and fibula on 18 December 2011 in the Chiefs game. In November, (one full year later), he was still moving with a limp and was put on IR. Normally a broken leg doesn't take two years to heal. He may still be okay but to blow it off as "just" a broken leg is being overly simplistic.

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

Newhouse just needs to hold the fort until Sherrod is ready.

Marshall Newhouse allowed 11 sacks, one-half more than his team-high total of 10½ a year ago. It is the most given up by a Green Bay O-lineman since Tony Mandarich yielded 12½ in '90.

Newhouse, with 42½, allowed the most pressures. That includes all sacks, knockdowns and hurries. Newhouse's total, one more than a year ago, is the highest since the Journal Sentinel began recording the statistic in 1999."

So far he's not holding it very well.

 

[HyponGrey]

Broken tibia and fibula on 18 December 2011 in the Chiefs game. In November, (one full year later), he was still moving with a limp and was put on IR. Normally a broken leg doesn't take two years to heal. He may still be okay but to blow it off as "just" a broken leg is being overly simplistic.

From what I heard we were being overly cautious so as not to prematurely reinjure the leg. Being familiar with the injury in question I can honestly say I believe that report.

 

[HyponGrey]

So far he's not holding it very well.

Agreed, but no tackle in this years draft would beat him out for the spot. At least not til next year.

 

[Einstein McFly]

People, stop being simplistic. The number of sacks has to be looked at in the context of the number of drop backs, how long the QB holds the ball and how much the QB moves around into areas where the lineman are trying to push their assigned guys. The titans had a bad line. The bears have a bad line. WE DON"T HAVE A BAD LINE. When Cutler drops back he's in trouble two seconds later. It's a jail break. We didn't see that this year apart from the first half of the seattle game. Note that we didn't see that in the second half.

The reason that we lost to the 9ers the way we did wasn't because of the offense (putting 24 on the board on the road to possibly the best defense in the league is not a failure) and especially not because the oline got dominated, it's because the front seven got totally dominated and the secondary had a bad day along with it.

Bulaga is a great right tackle. Sitton is a great right guard. Lang is a good left guard. Newhouse was a hell of a lot better than most left tackles in the league this year, especially down the stretch. Someone said he got owned by Jared Allen? In the last two games he beat Allen, and it wasn't close. Against the Smiths in the last game he did just fine.

At center, I expect EDS to compete with Von Roten and maybe Barkley and maybe someone they draft. If they get a shot at Barrett Jones, it might be smart to pick him up. I trust them to pick the best of the bunch and I expect whoever they pick to do a fine job.

Now, move on and start talking about how to fix our front seven. They're the ones who got totally dominated and put us out of the playoffs.

 

[HyponGrey]

The number of sacks has to be looked at in the context of the number of drop backs, how long the QB holds the ball and how much the QB moves around into areas where the lineman are trying to push their assigned guys.

Didn't we already address those stats somewhere?

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

Newhouse was a hell of a lot better than most left tackles in the league this year, especially down the stretch. Someone said he got owned by Jared Allen? In the last two games he beat Allen, and it wasn't close. Against the Smiths in the last game he did just fine.

Rodgers was sacked 51 times and you say we don't have a bad line? 41 1/2 pressures and 11 sacks is not "a hell of a lot better than most left tackles in the league this year. Did he do better in the playoffs? Yes, but don't try to sell anyone on the illusion that Newhouse is a great LT, he's not.

I agree with your assessment on Sitton and Bulaga, I think Lang could be a lot better on opening up the run lanes.

The line is slightly above average, but since the Packers want to compete at the highest level, they need to get better.

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/...ive-line-for-a-poor-green-bay-packers-season/

 

[TJV]

I think the interior of the OL is OK except for needing depth. IMO Newhouse has to get better and Bulaga has to return to his previous play. With McCarthy’s offense, helping OTs pass block has to be the rare exception, not the rule and that wasn’t the case this season. I agree Sherrod’s injury obviously wasn’t a simple break and if he can’t regain his quickness he can’t play LT. Going into his third season he’s still inexperienced (but better know the playbook like the back of his hand) and perhaps “broken”. And in spite of what one poster believes it’s no one’s fault. Not Thompson’s, not Campen’s, not Sherrod’s and not Newhouse’s. IMO it goes under the category, sometimes (bad) ‘sch!t happens’.

 

[Einstein McFly]

Rodgers was sacked 51 times and you say we don't have a bad line? 41 1/2 pressures and 11 sacks is not "a hell of a lot better than most left tackles in the league this year. Did he do better in the playoffs? Yes, but don't try to sell anyone on the illusion that Newhouse is a great LT, he's not.

I agree with your assessment on Sitton and Bulaga, I think Lang could be a lot better on opening up the run lanes.

The line is slightly above average, but since the Packers want to compete at the highest level, they need to get better.

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/...ive-line-for-a-poor-green-bay-packers-season/

Like I said before, you can't just look at the numbers. This isn't baseball. Stats and box scores are way less useful in football than in most other sports. The most important players on the field (o and d lineman) rarely have any stats to show for how they contribute to success or failure. You have to watch them play and see how well they did what was expected on given plays. Watching the bears and the sacks per dropback and the time Cutler had versus our sacks per dropback and how much time Rodgers had is night and day. If you see other teams' left tackles, you can see that a lot of them would LOVE to have Newhouse. That said, I'm not trying to make it sound like Newhouse wouldn't be the first guy on our line I'd like to upgrade. He's probably the most important on (I say "probably" because the center makes the line calls and some argue that's more important, though I don't really buy it). I really REALLY hope Sherrod can come back and take that sport and Newhouse can be the backup at LT and RT. It was a long time ago and on the other side of the line, but in that game against the chiefs when he got hurt Sherrod was playing the best game that I'd seen him play. And he is a better run blocker than Newhouse, though that's not saying much.

In terms of appraising our whole line, I'd say it's an above average pass to good pass blocking line and an average run blocking line depending on the situation. We're crap at short yardage but did well running the ball against some good fronts (line the 9ers) when we were balanced. This is'n't based on sack stats, it's based on seeing how much time Rodgers has and how many drop backs he has and watching other teams who have it way, way worse. Like the bears. They'll be lucky to have their line rebuilt by the time Cutler retires.

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

Like I said before, you can't just look at the numbers. This isn't baseball. Stats and box scores are way less useful in football than in most other sports. The most important players on the field (o and d lineman) rarely have any stats to show for how they contribute to success or failure. You have to watch them play and see how well they did what was expected on given plays. Watching the bears and the sacks per dropback and the time Cutler had versus our sacks per dropback and how much time Rodgers had is night and day. If you see other teams' left tackles, you can see that a lot of them would LOVE to have Newhouse. That said, I'm not trying to make it sound like Newhouse wouldn't be the first guy on our line I'd like to upgrade. He's probably the most important on (I say "probably" because the center makes the line calls and some argue that's more important, though I don't really buy it). I really REALLY hope Sherrod can come back and take that sport and Newhouse can be the backup at LT and RT. It was a long time ago and on the other side of the line, but in that game against the chiefs when he got hurt Sherrod was playing the best game that I'd seen him play. And he is a better run blocker than Newhouse, though that's not saying much.

In terms of appraising our whole line, I'd say it's an above average pass to good pass blocking line and an average run blocking line depending on the situation. We're crap at short yardage but did well running the ball against some good fronts (line the 9ers) when we were balanced. This is'n't based on sack stats, it's based on seeing how much time Rodgers has and how many drop backs he has and watching other teams who have it way, way worse. Like the bears. They'll be lucky to have their line rebuilt by the time Cutler retires.

We also can"t delude ourselves into thinking he is a good LT if not for Rodgers. Look at the video (if you can find them). See how many times he gets burned by a simple spin move or just gets pushed out of the way. If he returns playing like he did in the playoffs then we should be better. If not then get ready for more sacks/pressures like this year...something we just can't afford.

 

[HyponGrey]

So the main point is the only real way to judge is arbitrary eye test?

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

Or how many times Newhouse's failure to play his position puts Rodgers on his a** or forces him to evacuate the pocket.

 

[HyponGrey]

Or how many times Newhouse's failure to play his position puts Rodgers on his a** or forces him to evacuate the pocket.

Somehow I think that's opinion, not quantifiable empirical evidence.

 

[PackFanNChiTown]

Somehow I think that's opinion, not quantifiable empirical evidence.

Well we talk stats (empiracle evidence) and ppl say you can"t go by the numbers. Then we switch to more personal interpretation and that's not enough evidence.

In the end we all know TT will do as he sees best and to hades with our opinion anyway...as it should be.

 

[JBlood]

Packers still holding out hope on Sherrod: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130121/PKR0101/130120023/Packers-still-banking-Sherrod

The nerve damage portion of the injury is the most worrisome. It took Flanagan 2 years to get over his similar injury with associated nerve damage. TT will take more offensive linemen in the draft. I'd personally like to see a new o line coach making them into a dominant line. I'd say 9 years for Campen's involvement has been enough.

 

[HyponGrey]

Packers still holding out hope on Sherrod: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130121/PKR0101/130120023/Packers-still-banking-Sherrod

The nerve damage portion of the injury is the most worrisome. It took Flanagan 2 years to get over his similar injury with associated nerve damage. TT will take more offensive linemen in the draft. I'd personally like to see a new o line coach making them into a dominant line. I'd say 9 years for Campen's involvement has been enough.

I had forgotten about Flanagan, but the parallels are eerie. Well, it's been two years.