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So I know I'll be flamed for this, but...need new O-L Coach?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Cheesehead625, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Cheesehead625
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    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    Here's an interesting idea. Now I know it probably wouldn't happen until the end of the season and I am by no means giving up on this season, but what about bringing Juan Castillo in for a look at the O-line coach job? He's been a life long and pretty successful O-line coach in the past and we could use the help.
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  2. Pack93z
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    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Your not going to get flogged by me.. replacing Campen has been near the top of my Packers wish they would do list since about 2006..
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  3. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Where is Jeff Jagodzinski

    We were awesome with him
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  4. Cheesehead625
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    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    Last coached with Omaha in the UFL in 2010...
  5. slaughter25
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    slaughter25 Cheesehead

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    I was on the fire shawn slocum bandwagon up until recent times and what I've learned from that situation is a lot of these assistant or position coaches cant really affect what happens on the field. Of course they are very important during the week in preparation but on game day it really boils down to the players making plays. I don't think the struggles on the OLine have to do with our guys not being put in the position to succeed due to scheme or otherwise I just plain old see these guys getting beat 1 on 1 play in and play out. You can have a brilliant minded coach and practice it perfectly all week and then just blow it on game day if the players don't show up for one reason or another.
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  6. 12theTruth
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    12theTruth Guest

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    I'm not opposed to any of those mentioned Castillo or Jagodzinski. The dream replacement would be Bob Bostad
    .
  7. Poppa San
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    Poppa San Pray daily and take the plunge for Eli Staff Member Moderator

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    Wasn't Jagodzinski brought in to teach zone blocking in the first place? I thought it was his idea and he sold it to MM. After he left I think it stagnated and really hasn't gotten any better. I don't think anyone on the staff knows it as well as he does. I'm not sure why MM did not grab him back when he became available.
  8. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yes he was here
  9. 7thFloorRA
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    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    What does Castillo run? I don't really like the zone blocking scheme and would love to see it gone.
  10. Poppa San
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    Poppa San Pray daily and take the plunge for Eli Staff Member Moderator

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    Unfortunately the entire line* was drafted to fit the ZBS. TT would have to redraft a good chunk of the line next spring.
    *(excluding Saturday. We need a center anyway,)
  11. DevilDon
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    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    The Pack was enamoured with it after SB XXXII and it's been their intent to make it work.
    I don't know why it doesn't work here, they've drafted for it, coached it believed in it but you only need to look at our run game to see it's not working.
    IMHO I believe they could go to another type of philosophy but you sure as heck aren't going to change it at this point of the season. ZBS for this season at least, I hope they can pull it together and all indications point to a positive year for the OL. They ARE getting better.
  12. JBlood
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    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Jagodzinski is coaching receivers at an NAIA school in Florida. He obviously has burned too many bridges to bring him back. But I agree that Campen has failed to develop a dominating offensive line, that currently ranks 28th in run blocking and 30th in pass protection, according to Football Outsiders http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
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  13. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    There has to be someone out there better than Campen. Yes he needs to go.
  14. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    As slaughter25 mentioned regarding Slocum, IMO it's extremely difficult for us as fans to evaluate how well - or poorly - assistant coaches are doing. Is it the assistant coach? Is it the scheme? Is it personnel, or more likely a combination of all three? In Campen's case the ZBS wasn't his idea so if he wanted to keep his job, he was stuck with it. As I've posted before, I didn’t like the ZBS from the beginning because I think the cut blocks it calls for are dirty tactics. Any system you can’t practice against your own teammates isn’t fit to be inflicted on the league IMO. I believed that as it was practiced in Denver and the Packers adoption of it didn’t change my mind. I think there were two problems with it from almost the beginning in Green Bay. First, the only coach who was schooled in it, Jagodzinski (whose name was brought up by longtimefan as a joke I believe/hope) left after one year. Too bad it wasn’t scrapped then. The second problem with it was IMO the Packers never went “full in” on the cut blocks. Not that I blame the players but for it to work DL have to fear getting cut blocked and without that fear the Packers ended up with a milquetoast version of it. Regarding talent acquisition I don't think Sitton or Bulaga fit into the ZBS mold, which is more evidence IMO that while it's still part of the play book, they've gone away from it as the mainstay of the running scheme.

    IMO the biggest reason the Packers aren’t a good run blocking team is because they aspire to be, usually have been since Wolf’s arrival (with the exception of Sherman's tenure), and need to be a great pass blocking team. It’s extremely difficult to put together a good/great pass blocking OL that is also a good/great run blocking line. Bulaga for some unknown reason (at least to me) seems to have regressed this season in both pass- and run-blocking. I'm so happy Newhouse has markedly improved as a pass blocker I forgive him for not being a good run blocker. Sitton hasn't been as consistent as he was last season and Saturday is not good run blocking - he really needs to be replaced next season IMO. Lang has been as consistent as anyone on the OL IMO.
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  15. Cheesehead625
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    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    I hate to keeps saying it, but how about the Patriots, Saints, and Texans. They seem to have lines that are good at both. Granted the pass sets up the run in their systems.
  16. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    May want to rethink the Saints

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...efensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=true


    Pats #1 in passing
    # 3 in total yards rushing 1197 yards

    Saints #5 in passing
    #32 in total yards rushing 508 yards

    Packers are #7 in passing
    # 22 in total yards rushing 721 yards

    Texans #9 in passing
    # 8 in total yards 898 yards




    FYI...Steelers, Falcons have even less rushing yards than us...And they are suppose to be a great running team
  17. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Rodgers running (129 yards) helps our rushing game numbers.
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  18. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I agree with longtimefan and would remove the Saints from your example. If you agree, that's 2 of 32 teams you ID as having OLs good at both - that's about 6%. "Extremely difficult" doesn't mean impossible. In fact, I was hoping the Packers OL would make some progress on this front this year. But the "stalwarts" of the OL, Bulaga and Sitton, haven't been consistent. Someone asked why the Packers have had trouble running to the right - with their best blocking TE lined up on that side, one would think they should be able to do OK. But that hasn't been the case consistently this season. BTW, as I read through McGinn's post game analysis this year he's mentioned injuries to the OL that I haven't seen elsewhere. Earlier in the year, Sitton was dinged up and in this week's column he said Lang's injured elbow has affected his "punch". I'm not making excuses for them - they haven't been at all consistent as a group. But as we look forward to the return of Benson, Woodson, and Jennings, and the improvement of the youngsters on D as they gain experience, I hope the OL comes together to be more consistent in both pass- and run-blocking as the playoffs get closer.
  19. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yes it does, but it is part of the game can't dismiss them...Or are we suppose to exclude his rushes?

    Matt Ryan has 90? So with Turner back there, their amount is even less..

    Not Rodgers fault he can run, but Brees cant
  20. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    That was me that wondered why cant Sitton and Bulaga run block..They should be able to
  21. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Nope but the point is without those rushes it puts a prettier face on the rushing totals in my opinion. Ryan's rushing numbers are 85 yards according to the Falcon web site. But please splane how their total is less with Turner having 415 yards and J. Rodgers having 137?

    I wish we had Turner.
  22. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    I see no reason why you cant be good at both Run and Pass blocking.

    I see much better blocking on other teams. We have very talented players in Bulaga and Sitton. We have an above average player in Lang. Saturday is a notch below average and sinking. Newhouse is below but rising.

    As far as folks comparing to top rush and pass offenses; there are too many factors there including RB, QB capabilities. But regardless, I don't need the Pack to be in the top 5 to consider them successful rushing the ball. Remember, that the Pack has the advantage of lots of good WRs and HOF QB. Most teams are protecting against the pass and should be easier to run on. I would be happy with the middle of the pack somewhere. What I see is an OL that doesn't seem to be able to open up holes in the run game. That can be 2 things, 1. The OL players are incapable or 2. The offensive plays are poorly designed. I believe it to be #1. Then I have to look at the players or the coach. As I stated above, I do believe there is talent on the OL, so it comes down to coaching.

    IMHO, any talk of ZBS is misplaced. The Packers, even at the height, only ran it 60%ish of the time. I wonder how much they still use it. Whenever I specifically watch for it, I don't see it very often. Granted, they may be so bad you can't even recognize it . . .

    As far as the OP and hiring a new guy - I only criticize you for saying we should wait to the end of the season. I would do it now. I think it would send a great message to the OL, hey your performance cost a man his job. That could be extra motivation. Besides, if there is a real good coach out there, why wait for another team to hire him when we would have to wait till our season ends in February?
  23. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Turner is suppose to really good..Yet Atlanta has worse # than us

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...3-p=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS

    They have 665 we have 721

    Take away both q/b Atlanta has 580 we have 592

    We still have a better rushing team than Atlanta...My statement I made before was that they still have less than us even with Turner
  24. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Yes both Atlanta and GB have pretty crappy rushing numbers as things now stand. But it still begs the question though whether the threat of Turner is a factor and helps their passing game. Without Benson I don't see us getting better or teams respecting our running game. Atlanta will however rush the ball better than us when it is all said and done. As the season progresses and teams get into bad weather Atlanta will utilize Turner more and their rushing totals will exceed ours, wait and see.
  25. Grave
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    Grave Cheesehead

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    We've gone the extra million miles with James Campen.
    The O-line is getting worse.
    Who can we hire?

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