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Sick of certain Packers tweeting

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Crazy Packers Fan, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. 7thFloorRA
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    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    Being a "hater" and actually saying you hate someone are very different things. I think Cameron is an outspoken douchebag but I do not actually hate him and wish any harm upon him. He can say whatever he wants to.... and I can mock him or enjoy Crabtree mocking him as well.
  2. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I still find nothing bad, or evil, or racist about anything he said.
    As I said earlier, all nationalities are different, as men and women are, etc.

    Why deny that?

    As far as I can see, each race has it's positives, and negatives.
    That goes for my own family too. Each has their own traits, skills and deficiencies.

    My wife's family is Chinese. Hong Kong Chinese. Very different than China Chinese, as they point out all the time.
    They're all very different than Japanese, than Vietnemese, than Thai, than Korean, way different than Filipino.... to many Americans they all "look" the same.

    Is it racist for each to say things that are commonplace in another? Is that stereotyping? Are there many truths to most or all stereotypes, or are the stereotypes just made up out of the blue?
  3. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Never said someone doesn't have the right to say something, but proceed on with the random rant
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  4. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    The Lord will see us through, The Lord will see us through,
    The Lord will see us through someday;
    Oh, deep in my heart, I do believe,
    We shall overcome someday.
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  5. gwh11
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    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    If you had kids in school, and in the course of explaining different facets of Japanese culture the teacher says "If you go to Japan or any Asian country, they can turn a television into a watch", you think most parents would be fine with that? Or covering Hispanic cultures and stating to the kids "You can see a Hispanic person and they can put 20 or 30 people in one home"?
    I know White wasn't addressing an elementary school, but if you don't think those are such great things to say to kids, that should tell you something about the nature of those statements.
    I would be horrified if my kids' teachers said things like that. Pretty certain a lot of parents would be.
    Do you also agree with White's statement regarding homosexuality being as bad as lying?
    No one here is saying Tom Crabtree or Reggie White can't say what their beliefs are. But if you use stereotypes like that, and knock gays and lesbians, you are going to offend huge numbers of people, and you better expect some scrutiny.
  6. gwh11
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    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    The sportswriter J.A. Adende wrote a thoughtful response to White's speech at the time.
    Part of what he said:
    "Homosexuality is a decision, it's not a race," White said. "People from all different ethnic backgrounds live in this lifestyle. But people from all different ethnic backgrounds also are liars and cheaters and malicious and back-stabbing."
    I wonder if White has read any of the medical studies that indicate there are genetic predispositions toward homosexuality.
    Apparently White does think genes play a role when it comes to singing in church or making electronics.
    Also:
    The danger of stereotypes is they put a road block in front of those who must overcome the negative ones and diminish the achievements of those who fulfill the positive ones. If you believe some people, African Americans can't be scientists and Asians do well in school because they were born that way. It isn't fair to either group.
    The whole article is here: http://articles.latimes.com/1998/mar/27/sports/sp-33219.
    White wasn't the first player to put his foot in his mouth, and he won't be the last. Twitter will help see to that.
  7. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Like I said, my wife is Chinese, and we both are well aware that Chinese are smarter (see SAT scores this year, last year, the year before, next year.... see the students studying to be doctors, etc.... note all those from India... those are stereotypes?).... Japanese are known for being electronic wizards. No shame in that.
    Nobody told them they can't play baseball (see Ichiro, Yu Darvish), or golf (Ryo Ishikawa), or do other things.
    My wife and her friends who are also Chinese, Thai, Japanese often joke about different things about themselves.
    I know anything negative about black is not discussable though. That's off-limits no matter what, as parodied on SNL a few weeks ago.

    Hispanic people are well-known, at least down here in Texas, for having multiple family units in the same house. No shame in that. It takes patience, and is smart to do in many cases.
    Other cultures around the world are forced to pack many people into small dwellings.... no shame. I love the typical family values of Mexicans. They have strong family values in my opinion. Are there many Mexicans in the NBA or NFL? Nope. So what? There aren't many white guys playing CB in the NFL either. What does that mean? What does it mean that it's true? Does it mean something if I admit it is the case?

    As far as the gay & lesbian thing goes, I don't have enough time tonight to cover that.

    I believe Reggie White had a faster path thru the Pearly Gates than anyone with the NAACP or GLADD has or ever will. Same with Kirk Cameron. Kirk believes that it's natural for a man and a woman... imagine that, it does in fact take a man and a woman to create life. What a natural thing to say. You put 100 women on one island stranded. You put 100 men on a different island, stranded. Now you put 100 men and 100 women together on a 3rd island stranded.
    Come back in 40 years and see what naturally took place........ it's no fluke. It's natural.

    I'll tie myself to Reggie and Kirk's path before I would with Ricky Martin, Adam Lambert, Elton John, Mitchell from Modern Family, etc.

    But I do not blame them because I agree with your genetic report above that they were born that way. Nobody would choose to be that way. I can't imagine anyone choosing to be that way.

    BTW, I do think Ellen Degeneres is one of the greatest humans, most kind, smart, funny, wonderful people in the USA and perhaps the nicest of anyone in Hollywood. And I know she's a lesbian. I think Martina Navratilova is a very good person, and I know she's a lesbian. I don't hate them. Don't dislike them for being gay. I genuinely like both of them as I would if they were not gay.
    Same with Reggie and Kirk. They don't hate. They receive hate though, for their opinions. Funny how that works out (worked, in Reggie's case, RIP).

    Obviously hot-button topics in America. But I agree it's usually better to discuss them than to hide them and pretend.
    Everyone's different. No need to pretend that we're all identical.
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  8. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    How so?
  9. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Yeah you did. You said their should be "lines".
  10. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    That alone doesn't mean anything. There are genetic predispositions toward a lot of things, including violence and addiction. Just pointing that out.
  11. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Thanks for telling me what I meant. Clearly you would know. I said there is a line in what is offensive to someone. Completely different, but hey if your inclined to troll go right ahead.
  12. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I was lost after the part about the lord, god, and heaven.

    Sincerely,
    An unapologetic Agnostic
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  13. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    My sister is a troll. I'm offended

    [​IMG]
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  14. gwh11
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    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    You mention the differences in Japanese, Thai, etc. So how do you reconcile that with White lumping all Asian countries together, stating that any Asian country can turn a television into a watch? Is that what they've been doing in Vietnam, for example?
    I think you helped illustrate why his examples were ludicrous. You're defending these even after White himself backpedalled from them.
    Nothing bad in what he said? I would read the transcript more carefully.
    If you think gays and lesbians are contributing to the demise of society, as in ancient Rome, because they won't make the choice to become straight, you may also want to look into burning a few witches that live down the street.
    Also bad: advocating beating your child up to five times. Hitting children as a way to administer discipline is backwards and barbaric. It used to be acceptible, but we now know study after study after study shows the derogatory affects of this. Care to defend that one?
    The plain fact is that this was a PR debacle after it happened. If the speech would've been delivered today, the ramifications would be even worse. In today's social media environment it would be a PR disaster of titanic proportions for the Packers and the NFL. With the availability of twitter and facebook these days, I would not be surprised to see some NFL player drop a bomb of Limbaugh-esque proportions.
  15. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    Did you hear about the black Wisconsin congressman who demanded an apology from the white congressman by characterizing an issue as a 'black hole'? Either he had no clue about astronomy or he was an as$hole. Regardless, he owes the white guy an apology for somehow contriving the situation to be racist attack.

    True story. I was on a date a couple of years ago and I got to meet her friends. I told a story about my days in Africa and germane to story was about black Africans and white Africans in Africa. Every time I said 'blacks' one of the gals recoiled. At the end she spoke up and informed me that they wanted to be called 'African Americans'. I just knew it was coming but started laughing. Guess it was funny that this 32 yo white girl chose to speak on behalf of all black people. I was able to utter "no, they don't" in between my laughs; at which point she blew up and raised her voice. Her friend helped her understand, "they aren't Americans, they live in Tanzania. And the whites are Africans also." My point - people need to lighten up.

    Anyhow, the way I see it is that some racism is socially accepted and actually encouraged in this country and until that ends - well, you just have to accept it.
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  16. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Well this thread took quite a detour! IMO some racism is socially acceptable, as is misogyny, and the bashing of Christians. But just because that is the case doesn't mean we have to, or should accept it. I also wish Christians who rail against homosexuality (not that all or even most of them do) because they believe it is a sin would give equal time to all the other things they consider sins.

    One of the greatest freedoms we as Americans are afforded is freedom of speech. Even so I wish everyone associated with the Packers would realize it's foolish for them to take sides in politics and/or religion. It's their right, but IMO it's just foolish of them to do so. Why alienate a great number of Packers fans for no apparent purpose?

    Regarding the great Reggie White, I truly believe his intentions were not to offend anyone. He apologized when he learned he did offend people.
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  17. gwh11
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    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    I do agree with what you stated, and I don't think White was out to purposely offend people.
    But now, with so many convenient media outlets, and the fact that players can communicate with their fans so easily and casually as never before, I expect some players will let loose and say something to cause a media firestorm. Some players are smart and keep certain things close to the vest, but others do not care, or may not fully grasp how easily they can create a PR problem.
  18. CarolinaPackerFan
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    CarolinaPackerFan Packers fan in Panthers country

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    This thread is an example of what's so great about the Packers. We have people from all different walks of life on here and regardless of our differences, we all love the Green and Gold!
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  19. FrankRizzo
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    Very good point.

    And to answer a point made earlier bashing Christians: I don't speak for all of them, but I, and most of we, DO give MORE than equal time to other sins.

    I personally believe any intentional murder should be life in prison, no parole. Period. No death penalty, just stop spending such a fortune on them as inmates. Make them pay their price and eat nothing more than what 3rd world countries survive on. No free educations or fitness memberships, etc. That's the reason why some want to execute them, cuz it's too costly. Just fix that, and lock the evil ones up.

    I also give more than equal time to many other issues.
  20. okcpackerfan
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    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    What if someone raped and murdered your entire family and was laughing about it and you shot and killed them. You go to trial - if I am on that jury I am putting you in prison because you can't go around killing people but I am going to recommend the shortest term possible to the judge and I would sleep fine.

    Point being you cannot lump all situations together. I think a lot of people in this thread are not taking situations on a case by case basis. I believe in freedom of speech, that being said I absolutely disagree with the person who said they would defend the KKK's right to freedom of speech. What if they are standing on street corners saying kill all black people? I don't think they should be allowed to do that and nobody is going to change my mind on that one.
  21. Southpaw
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    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    So you want players to purge any and all feelings, views and emotions?

    Sounds a lot like....

    [​IMG]
  22. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I agree, okcpackerfan. Thank goodness our legal system does decide cases on a case by case basis. BTW, freedom of speech is not an absolute right – the example of yelling fire in a crowded theater is perhaps the most famous exception but it’s not the only one. For example, hate groups like the KKK cannot use the First Amendment as a defense to inciting violence.
  23. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    How about you simply take the time to be clear about what you mean rather than calling people "trolls." Sound like a plan?
  24. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Now you're flirting with a slippery slope. As long as no one acts on it, the speech is fine. If someone DOES act on it, only then does it become inciting violence.

    If we outlaw that speech, what is to stop the next person from coming along and using that as a precedent to outlaw someone else's speech? Then you have that proverbial line in the sand being moved further and further until free speech no longer exists. Once you put that first limit on free speech, there is nothing to stop that limit from being changed in the future. And who do you think would decide on those limits? POLITICIANS. Is that really what you want?

    Freedom is an all or nothing proposition, and it has its price. But that price is well worth paying. Don't take it for granted. Ask Canadians how they feel about the idea of facing heavy fines if they simply say the wrong thing.
  25. GreenBlood
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    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    You absolutely have the right to yell "Fire" in a theater. What you don't have a right to do is induce widespread panic for no reason. The crime isn't the speech. It's in being the cause of the resulting panic. If nobody panics, then there's no problem... aside from being kicked out of the theater.

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