Should have obtained JERRY HUGHES

[FrankRizzo]

You guys (except the newbies) here know I have had a man-crush on Jerry Hughes.
I live in Dallas and he was a superstud here at TCU.

Entering the 2010 NFL Draft, he was who I wanted.
So many of the mocks that April had us taking him.
Bryan Bulaga was supposed to be a top 20 pick, and we were picking I think at about 27.
We also had been starting both old guys at OT on our White Wall, in Clifton and Tauscher.
So we needed to do something there......

That draft week, the 2 best mockers in the country, Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News, and our own Bob McGinn, had us taking OLB Jerry Hughes, to pair with Clay Matthews. I was so excited as I saw first hand how athletic and quick he was and would be a great OLB.... it would be unfair with Matthews.

Look at Hughes combine numbers. They were as good, or better, than Matthews were. Ted values those splits that he put up.... he was gonna be ours! He ran a 4.5 in the forty. A 1.63 10-yard split. A 6.99 3-cone.

Well, Bulaga fell down the board for various reasons, not sure if durability was one of them...... so when he kept falling, and made it to our pick, you know the White Wall had it's reinforcement, and it was a good pick I guess. Had to make it due to how weak we were at OT. And he helped us win that Super Bowl as he was needed.

I don't believe it was Ted's true MO though as he was not the BPA.
That was Dez Bryant -or Hughes.

The AFC Champion Colts took Hughes even though they ran a 4-3 instead of 3-4. They were wrong in thinking that scheme was right for him.

As Kitten here knows, they gave up on him in Indy, dealing him finally, this April for a backup player named Kelvin Sheppard from Buffalo.

In Buffalo, Hughes is able to rush the passer standing up, like Nick Perry. Well... I mean like Matthews.
How's he done so far, still learning that system?

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/j-j-watt-houston-texans-pressure-points-another-award-winning-season/
Season

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

This is no surprise to me.
And I don't understand why Thompson didn't make a play for this guy.
The Colts were unhappy with him in their system in 2010. And in 2011 even worse. As Kitten said then, they wrote him off.

We should have had him that off-season, and then we wouldn't have had to draft Nick Perry with our 1st round pick in last year's draft.

Kitten knows I would have made that deal.... probably would have gotten done at that point for a 6th round pick, or 5th.

Then we don't take OLB Perry the constant injury, with our #28 pick last year.
You know who went pick #29?
Safety Harrison Smith to Minnesota.
He would have been the perfect pick for us, and last year as great as he was, and physical, he (plus Hughes) could have been the difference that defense needed last year to beat teams like the 49ers. His Vikings DID beat the 49ers last year.

 

[yooperpackfan]

Good scenario you put out there and you are probably right.

 

[TJV]

We also had been starting both old guys at OT on our White Wall....you know the White Wall had it's reinforcement

How is this relevant to your whining about Jerry Hughes?

 

[PFanCan]

We should have taken Barry Sanders, too, in 1989. Bummer.

 

[FrankRizzo]

How is this relevant to your whining about Jerry Hughes?

Because Bulaga was the guy we drafted instead, which fit that MO.
You know that.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Bulaga was drafted because they needed an OT, not because he is white. Or are you saying the Packers organization share your racist characteristics?

The White Wall contention isn't even accurate, which happens to support your racist claim. We've got a couple of other OTs by the names of Newhouse and Sherrod, the latter being another "best available OT" pick like Bulaga.

That said, I watch most of the Bills games. Hughes has been playing very well when used as a pass rushing specialist. Not so good in coverage when he played 3-down when Lawson missed a game. He's not as fast in the open field as his Combine number suggests. Even as a situational player he does look like a steal at $2 mil total for 2013 and 2014.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I watch most of the Bills games. Hughes has been playing very well when used as a pass rushing specialist...... Even as a situational player he does look like a steal at $2 mil total for 2013 and 2014.

Yes a steal. And finding pass rushers is critical in today's NFL.
How many games has Nick Perry now missed in 1.5 seasons? More than half of them, I know that. And I am a supporter of Perry, not ripping that pick, not one of the guys that said he wasn't capable of transitioning to OLB from USC.

I just loved Hughes then and now.
And I know Thompson had him rated very high in that 2010 Draft.
He should have stolen him away from Indy after 2 busted seasons in their 4-3.
But as well all know, TT really, really, really tries hard to not get players from other teams.

We all saw that stat a few weeks ago how his team only had 3 guys on it who had ever played on another team:
Pickett, Kuhn (briefly in Pitt), and Seneca Wallace.
Wallace is out now.
Flynn is back in, having somewhat played for another team or two...... maybe that's why Teddy waited THIS long to bring Flynn in. It went against his tendency......

Again, back to Hughes: when you're listed/graded right there with Tamba Hali, Robert Mathis, Charles Johnson, Justin Houston, ahead of Clay Matthews, DeMarcus Ware, etc..... you know there's something good there.
I wish we had that guy.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yes a steal. And finding pass rushers is critical in today's NFL.
How many games has Nick Perry now missed in 1.5 seasons? More than half of them, I know that. And I am a supporter of Perry, not ripping that pick, not one of the guys that said he wasn't capable of transitioning to OLB from USC.

I just loved Hughes then and now.
And I know Thompson had him rated very high in that 2010 Draft.
He should have stolen him away from Indy after 2 busted seasons in their 4-3.
But as well all know, TT really, really, really tries hard to not get players from other teams.

We all saw that stat a few weeks ago how his team only had 3 guys on it who had ever played on another team:
Pickett, Kuhn (briefly in Pitt), and Seneca Wallace.
Wallace is out now.
Flynn is back in, having somewhat played for another team or two...... maybe that's why Teddy waited THIS long to bring Flynn in. It went against his tendency......

Again, back to Hughes: when you're listed/graded right there with Tamba Hali, Robert Mathis, Charles Johnson, Justin Houston, ahead of Clay Matthews, DeMarcus Ware, etc..... you know there's something good there.
I wish we had that guy.

I never liked the Perry pick and have not seen any reason to change my mind. A couple of nice bull rushes does not an edge rusher make, and he's not first round material in coverage either. What do you do with a 3-4 OLB with no pass rush moves, an off-and-on motor, and coverage skills that don't say "3 down player"?

 

[HardRightEdge]

That would be drafting based on need, not the famous BPA formula Ted drafts by. You know better than that. Teddy doesn't draft to fill holes or positions. He subscribes to the Best Player Available theory.

If the last 2 drafts, particularly that "all defense" 2012 draft, did not debunk the TT BPA fiction, I don't know what will.

The BPA argument is supported mostly in isolated cases, like the Nelson pick, though an argument about need at the position at that time can be made there as well.

We can go all the way back to the 2006 draft where we picked Hawk and Hodge in the 1st. and 3rd. rounds. Was that because they were simply the best players available? Or did cutting ties with Lennon and Diggs in the off season perhaps dictate those picks? That was a rhetorical question.

If TT chooses not to disclose his thinking for competitive reasons or he finds that it leads to an introvert's exhaustion in answering the endless follow-up questions and thereby finds "BPA" to be a convenient discussion-ender, who could find fault with that? It worked. Everybody seemed to take the claim at face value when there was bounteous evidence to the contrary.

 

[FrankRizzo]

If the last 2 drafts, particularly that "all defense" 2012 draft, did not debunk the TT BPA fiction, I don't know what will.

The BPA argument is supported mostly in isolated cases, like the Nelson pick, though an argument about need at the position at that time can be made there as well.

We can go all the way back to the 2006 draft where we picked Hawk and Hodge in the 1st. and 3rd. rounds. Was that because they were simply the best players available? Or did cutting ties with Lennon and Diggs in the off season perhaps dictate those picks? That was a rhetorical question.

If TT chooses not to disclose his thinking for competitive reasons or he finds that it leads to an introvert's exhaustion in answering the endless follow-up questions and thereby finds "BPA" to be convenient discussion-ender, who could find fault with that? It worked. Everybody seemed to take the claim at face value when there was bounteous evidence to the contrary.

Absolutely.
And what's funny to me is I remember being super ecstatic with that pick of Abdul Hodge out of Iowa.
Also Cory Rodgers the WR from TCU. Whoops.

But yeah, TT doesn't always go BPA.... that's so cliche.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If you aren't a racist you post like one.

If it quacks like a duck....

 

[FrogSole]

As a TCU alum, I agree!

 

[longtimefan]

The OTHER conversations went to

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/should-have-obtained-jerry-hughes.48108/

Go there to continue your debate

 

[AmishMafia]

But yeah, TT doesn't always go BPA.... that's so cliche.

Did you have access to TT's draft board? Or are you under the assumption that there is some kind of standardized list that ranks every college player to determine which one is better than the others?

 

[FrankRizzo]

Did you have access to TT's draft board?

Not exactly of course, but McGinn and Gosselin have good contacts within the organization and both their (same) sources told them Hughes was rated high on the Packers board and expected to be the pick.
But Bulaga was too tempting as a need position who fit the mold.

 

[AmishMafia]

McGinn has no credibility. He has had to backtrack on a few of his claims this last season. i don't know if I have ever heard that claim by Gosselin. He maybe talks to other GMs and scouts who see who TT is watching and talking with and they make assumptions. But the actual board is a well guarded secret.

 

[HardRightEdge]

McGinn has no credibility. He has had to backtrack on a few of his claims this last season. i don't know if I have ever heard that claim by Gosselin. He maybe talks to other GMs and scouts who see who TT is watching and talking with and they make assumptions. But the actual board is a well guarded secret.

I generally like McGinn, but he did a quick 180 on this defense in a matter of a week without acknowledging the "mistake".

He's was pounding the table all off season about how this defense needs to get more physical (who could disagree with that?). He was happy with the early results...or is it happy his prescription was being filled? Last week he made the bold claim this was McCarthy's best team when discounting the injuries:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...preseason-optimism-b99137891z1-231315881.html

Then, after the Philly game, we get this analysis, characterizing the Bears game performance as "shameful" and the defense as "suddenly awful" and "porous", with "scant pass rush" against a "lumbering Foles" and "loose man-to-man coverage".

It's hard to argue with the latter analysis, but it would seem his earlier enthusiasm was over baked, and his 180 turn in short order paints so negative a picture as to be equally over baked.

We have what amounts to an inconsistent defense that has performed well in some aspects some of the time and is pretty bad in other aspects of the game most of the time. Some of the same problems keep plaguing this D going back a year or two, regardless of injury.

It's not as good as McGinn said it was last week and not as bad as he said it was this week...more like a shade below mediocre on balance over the course of this season.

 

[AmishMafia]

I generally like McGinn, but he did a quick 180 on this defense in a matter of a week without acknowledging the "mistake".

He's was pounding the table all off season about how this defense needs to get more physical (who could disagree with that?). He was happy with the early results...or is it happy his prescription was being filled? Last week he made the bold claim this was McCarthy's best team when discounting the injuries:

The issue I had it was he reported that the Packers decided they were going to get bigger and stronger. In the end they drafted an OT who is one of the smallest in the league and a DE who some felt was undersized. Lacy is about the only one who can be said is large for his size, but McGinn said they also decided, the Packers, to not take anyone with an injury risk. Which Lacy was considered to be.

His article after the draft acted like the Packers were somehow forced to go against their game plan of bigger, tougher and more reliable based on the value the picks presented. Sounded like someone who did not know what was going on and was embarrassed. At least, that is the way it came across to me.

 

[FrankRizzo]

The OTHER conversations went to

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/should-have-obtained-jerry-hughes.48108/

Go there to continue your debate

It says I do not have permission to view this page.

 

[longtimefan]

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/the-adult-asylum-posting-rules.46417/

http://www.packerforum.com/account/join-user-groups