1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up/a> or Log In

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member! Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Saftey and CB

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Jordyruns, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. Jordyruns
    Offline

    Jordyruns Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Ratings:
    +159 / 7 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1997
    During this most recent win streak we have all seen our Defense take a new form and begin to look like the old defense of 2010, which IMO was more vital than our offense to our Super Bowl success. This is great and we are all excited I'm sure, but my question is what do we do when Woodson comes back now. Mcmillian, Burrnett, and Jennings look good back there. They are all playing inspired and hungrey football right now. Woodson look pretty good but not as good as those 3 are looking right now. Would it be smart to limit Woodsons role even more or is his defensive leadership on the field that important? I personally want to stick with the hot hand and besides Clay Matthews and Shields (who has earned it) coming back I don't want to mess with this defense.

    Speaking of corners I also think Williams should be on a short leash during the upcoming games, Shields played great before he went down, House and Hayward are play lights out, if Williams doesn't step up I don't know if he should be playing as much as usual.Maybe this is going to be like the DJ Smith thing last year and blow up in my face but I want to see the young guys get the most playing time. They are doing so well right now they deserve it, Williams and Woodson do not based on how they have played.

    Does anyone else feel this way?
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. bozz_2006
    Offline

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,521
    Location:
    Grand Forks, ND
    Ratings:
    +625 / 6 / -0
    Good points. Have no idea how to answer those questions. Just wanted to add that I think it's a good problem to have!
  3. rodell330
    Offline

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,450
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +832 / 175 / -43
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    No way does Woodson's role diminish when he comes back, yea the youngsters have been playing good but Woodson isn't going to be any type of liability once he returns trust me.
  4. burt packerack
    Offline

    burt packerack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    250
    Ratings:
    +99 / 0 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1996
    Whenever Woodson comes back I don't want him wearing those tiny *** J.V. football pads.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    If Woodson's 100%, there's no question you'll want him on the field. He's seen it all and done it all; you want that presence on the field come playoff time. If he's 80%...that's a questionable proposition. We went after an 80% Polamalu in the SB with notable success, to take one example.

    In the end, if Woodson is able to strap on the pads, he'll be out there even if maybe he shouldn't be, because that's just the way things tend to be done in the NFL with guys who have All-Pro resumes.

    Williams is a quandary. He's not playing the same game as pre-injury. He's rarely up in the receiver's face; he gives up a lot of plays underneath. He made his name pre-injury playing a lot of bump-and-run. I don't know if this a scheme change to which he's ill-fitted, or because he's not 100% recovered from the nerve damage. If I had to guess, I'd say the latter.

    Will he get bumped out of the starting line-up? I doubt it. They're still running him out there consistently against the opponent's #1. The first step would be have him regularly take on the #2. If that happens, then there might be something to talk about. To be sure, you would not call him an above average corner over the past 2 seasons. Playing injured might be to blame, but at a certain point that's irrelevant. It does not appear we're at that point yet.
  6. Alex
    Offline

    Alex Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    406
    Location:
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Ratings:
    +213 / 6 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1989
    Watching Tramon cover everyone's #1 receiver is scary to watch. I know it was Calvin Johnson but at times yesterday he left the safety up top and he was no where to be found underneath. I know Hayward is a rookie but the way he's playing I trust him on the #1 more than Williams.​
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. PFanCan
    Offline

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Ratings:
    +712 / 14 / -3
    All good points, imo, Jordyruns. You pose the same questions that I was having watching the past fews games, including the one yesterday.

    The youngsters are looking very good out there. Though I am sure that we will still see a higher-than-average occasion of broken coverages (due to lack of experience), they are making up for it with hustle, hawking, and very good tackling. I want to emphasise the tackling element. Very impressive. McMillian and Hayward in particular.

    As House gets back into shape, I expect and hope more good things from him, too.

    It's a nice problem to have. Too bad we don't have that same problem with the OL, eh?

    1. What to do with Woodson: He is a coverage liability out there: Was leading the league in def-holding penalties prior to his injury, and a noticable step slower than before. However, his leadership, poise, and the threat of his play-making abilities always on the opposing QB mind counter-act the negatives with room to spare. Result: He plays. I do expect his snap count to go down, but he will be on the field more often than not. Same story for next season, though the snap count will decline once more.

    2. What to do with T. Williams: It was already mentioned that the camera caught him seemingly jogging on auto-pilot while watching the safety defend the pass and make the tackle. There was probably more than meets the eye on this one, but it sure didn't look great. Seemed that had he put a bit of burner on at the end, he could have made a play on the ball. However, that play aside, Williams future is uncertain, imo. He needs to shut his mouth when facing the likes of Megatron, too.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. 13 Times Champs
    Offline

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +1,377 / 86 / -17
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    To the best of my recollection which does get fuzzy these days, Tramon was not anything special up to the Super Bowl season. Since then he has gone back to playing the way he did pre Super Bowl year. Last year he wasn't healthy so he gets a bit of a pass but as far as I know he is now. I totally agree he needs to start playing up to his mouth.
  9. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    I think that's fair. 2010 was a breakout year, without having looked all that great before or since.

    We don't know about the injury. Nerve damage is troubling to start with, and could lead to chronic weakness. There's nothing formal to report in that case, just diminished capacity, and certainly nothing you want opponents to know about. Dunno if that's the case here. All I know is he doesn't get up in receivers faces like he used to, and is playing soft like last season when he was known to be playing hurt. Time will tell.

    He's in the second year of a substantial 5 year deal, so you can be sure he'll get the benefit of the doubt for some while longer.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. bozz_2006
    Offline

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,521
    Location:
    Grand Forks, ND
    Ratings:
    +625 / 6 / -0
    Agree with HRE, and I don't think Tramon is "healthy" yet. I think he still lacks power in the shoulder due to the nerve damage and also lacks confidence in his ability to play tough, up close and personal. I do think he'll get there, though.
  11. HyponGrey
    Offline

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,731
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Ratings:
    +1,022 / 55 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1998
    Experience trumps. Besides that, we have to beware a sophomore slump for Heyward
  12. GeeDogWarrior
    Offline

    GeeDogWarrior 0 - 0

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2011
    Messages:
    386
    Location:
    Titletown, Mexico
    Ratings:
    +139 / 2 / -1
    I say we roll with the youth - these guys are growing up - have Woodson be some sort of Coverage Linebacker or something gimmicky - idk, Tramon can play way better - (wk 2 vs Marshall) - I'd like our pass rush to quit double guessing/tip toeing over whether the opposing offense is running the ball or passing. Make a decision and attack - quickly.
  13. FrankRizzo
    Offline

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,771
    Location:
    Dallas
    Ratings:
    +1,608 / 59 / -33
    Packer Fan Since:
    1969
    No need to worry about that because as we see time and time again, probably more guys will get hurt by the time Wood comes back.
  14. Kitten
    Offline

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,034
    Location:
    Philly/ South Jersey area
    Ratings:
    +1,388 / 7 / -1
    Packer Fan Since:
    1993
    Very good points. I'd have to agree with you. If anything good can come out of losing a key player such as Woodson its you find out what you have in your backups. I think Mcmillian, Burrnett, and Jennings have done an extremely impressive job stepping up and fulfilling a huge void on our D. With that being said I like our D the way it is right now but I also think Woodson should have his place on it when he comes back. I see him as the spiritual and emotional leader of this team whether he's on the field or not.
  15. HyponGrey
    Offline

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,731
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Ratings:
    +1,022 / 55 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1998
    QOTD: Does MD Jennings belong above Jerron McMillian on the depth chart?
  16. El Guapo
    Offline

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,899
    Location:
    Land 'O Lakes
    Ratings:
    +1,052 / 47 / -2
    Packer Fan Since:
    1976
    I don't think that you can count on Shields the rest of this season - my opinion.

    His best attribute is speed. He's only played the CB for a few years now. He's coming off of a severe ankle sprain which is much harder to come back from than a break. I know, I've broken my ankles a handful of times and once had the dreaded high ankle sprain, which without fancy trainers took about a year to fully recover from.

    I don't think that Shields will have his elite speed back this season and therefore won't be effective because he doesn't have the tools that even most of our rookies have at CB.
  17. rodell330
    Offline

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,450
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +832 / 175 / -43
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Speaking of Shields when is this guy coming back? his injury didn't even look that severe. We have the best group of corners in the league imo. Heyward is a future pro bowler but House leaves me intrigued. He shows flashes of greatness but then he gives up some easy completions. He sorta reminds me of a faster Al Harris.
  18. Fundamentals
    Offline

    Fundamentals Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    New York
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Woodson definitely gives up tons of penalties due to how aggressive he plays but he also gets away with a lot more than the young guys can simply because that's how he's been playing his whole career. He also isn't afraid to come up and make a hit or help out and make a tackle which obviously was an issue in this past win against the Vikings. I'm a huge fan of our guys stepping up and think Heyward should be up to win Defensive Rookie of the Year but when Woodson is ready he's going to help us out in many ways and has to be on the field to do that.
  19. mradtke66
    Offline

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    394
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Ratings:
    +136 / 8 / -0
    As long as he is health enough, Woodson should be allowed back on the field. But only at safety. Heyward has played better this year in the slot.

    Letting the old guys stick around because they are experienced has bit us before. Look at Clifton in the Giants playoff game last year. And might we have pulled one out if "Super-Dynamic-Cobb" was getting snaps instead of "Able-to-be-cover-by-a-lineback-Driver" ?

    It's harsh, but the game is harsh. The business of the game is harsh. If the young guy is as good, you play him. If he's close, you play him, assuming he's going to get better. Old guys only get worse.
  20. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    I think a finer point can be put on this discussion.

    Heyward was a 4.65 guy at the Combine. It can be argued that 40 times are not relevant for a number of positions on the field, but cover corner is not one of them. So, pen Heyward in as our current and future nickel corner.

    This is not some kind of downgrading of Hayward's talent or importance...the way the game is evolving with TE and slot receiver usage and the high level of talent accumulating at those position, it could be reasonably argued that nickel corner is more important that the #2 cover corner, especially in this defense.

    That leaves Williams, Shields and House in the cover corner debate.

    We have too much invested in Williams to make a change in the foreseeable future, certainly not before next season. My choice would then be a 100% healthy Shields for the balance of the season, a guy who has bounced back to his outstanding 2010 form before the injury. Teams were just not throwing at him this year...that ain't for nothin'. Everybody talks about his speed, but for some odd reason his ball skills are not give enough credit. His ball recognition on deep passes is outstanding, best on this roster without a close second.
  21. 13 Times Champs
    Offline

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +1,377 / 86 / -17
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    Yes, sentiment won't take you far in the NFL. Totally agree with you on both Clifton and Driver. Both were done last year.
  22. El Guapo
    Offline

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,899
    Location:
    Land 'O Lakes
    Ratings:
    +1,052 / 47 / -2
    Packer Fan Since:
    1976
    I doubt that anyone was looking for it, but I'm happy to admit being wrong about SS. Great comeback game.

Share This Page