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Ryan Shazier or CJ Mosley at #21

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by thequick12, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. thequick12
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    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    Ryan Shazier 6-1 237 ran a unofficial 4.36 40 had a vertical jump of 42 in, benched 225 25 times, short shuttle 4.21, broad jump 10' 8" and 3 cone drill 6.91.

    CJ Mosley 6-2 234 ran a unofficial 4.65 40, had a 35 in vertical, no bench number available, short shuttle 4.40, broad jump 9' 8 " and 3 cone drill 7.30.

    I would take Shazier I think he is exactly what we need in the middle of our d at ILB. A sideline to sideline player who is good in coverage and explosive.
  2. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Way too much stock is put into combine numbers, if Mosley would be there at #21 I'll take him in a heartbeat over Shazier.
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  3. thisisnate
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    thisisnate Cheesehead

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    They both look really, really good. I lean towards Mosley only because he's pretty much the unanimous choice over Shazier by scouts, who I must assume know better than I do.
  4. Pack....man!!!
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    Pack....man!!! Cheesehead

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    The Combine shows athleticism... And Shazier is off the charts when to speed at his position tou can't teach speed but nothing but up for him Mosely is a beast too but I rather have speed at LB..Shazier would be my choice..at that speed he can cover receivers.


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  5. thequick12
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    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    My choice not based on combine numbers alone. Yeah 4.36 in the middle of the d would be key but Shazier put up better numbers than Mosley. Now they played different positions with Shazier playing on the outside although Mosley did play on the outside some he predominately played on the inside.
    This past season Shazier had 144 total tackles 102 solo, 23.5 tackles for a loss, 7 sacks, 4 passes defended, and 4 forced fumbles.
    While Mosley posted 108 total tackles 62 solo, 9 tackles for a loss, 0 sacks, 5 passes defended, and 1 forced fumble.
    For their careers Shazier finished with 317 total tackles 210 solo, 45.5 tfl, 15 sacks, 16 pd, 9 ff, and 1 int which he returned 17 yards for a td. Played 3 seasons is a junior entry.
    Mosley finished with 319 total tackles 175 solo, 23 tfl, 6.5 sacks, 24 pd, 2 ff, and 5 int 3 of which he returned for tds. Played 4 seasons.
    While Mosley did have 8 more passes defended, 2 more total tackles, and 4 more ints in 1 more season of play.
    He also had 35 less solo tackles, 22.5 less tfl, 8.5 less sacks, and 7 less ff than Shazier who played one less season.
    To me it seems like Shazier makes more impact plays now some of this could be due to playing on the outside compared to the middle but remember we are comparing 3 seasons to 4 which kind of compensates for the position differences.
    It is a close call but if I have to choose one at 21 I take Shazier because he projects to be more of a impact player in the league than Mosley. Shazier may be a super star while Mosley is a star but who knows they are both really good and either would be an upgrade over Hawk and Jones in the middle.
  6. TCHickman24
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    TCHickman24 Cheesehead

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    Isn't Shazier more of a second round guy? Wouldn't it be sweet if we could land both? Mosely in the first, Shazier in the second. Talk about athleticism in the middle of our D.
  7. thequick12
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    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    It would be awesome we'd be set in the middle but I don't think there is any way Shazier is there at #53 in the second. In fact he may not even be around at #21. He is the 3rd ranked OLB after Mack and Barr. It's possible that neither of them are available at #21.
  8. Luca
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    Luca Cheesehead

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    Most draft big boards have in the 30's, and his stock is rising. So unless his stock rises more and someone falls in love with him, he will be picked late in the first or early in the second.

    I really like Shazier for our defense. It would be good for our linebacker corps to have an actual jack-of-all-trades linebacker, in addition to all this former defensive ends (nothing wrong with former D-ends as rushers, but most of them suck in coverage, especially Perry). I think I would use him as outside linebacker in base and as move him inside in the nickel (so that Peppers, Matthews, Perry and/or Neal can line up outside). This dude would be an instant upgrade over the other middle linebackers in the nickel since he can cover.

    Having said that. We should never fall in love with a prospect and always pick value. I'am not sure whether Shazier is the BPA at 21. I wouldn't mind a trade back to the late first round to get some extra picks in this deep draft (maybe an extra 3rd or 4th). Shazier is probably still there. And if he is not, there might still be some of the following quality players: Nix, Hageman, Donald, Jernigan, Van Noy, Pryor, Beckham Jr, Cooks, Benjamin and maybe even Mosley (his draft stock has been falling on some boards lately).
  9. ExpatPacker
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    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Mosley appears to be the more complete ILB who is valued for his leadership and his smarts on the field as well as his talent. Shazier is the combine freak who could run down a scrambling Colin Kaepernick like a cheetah after a gazelle--the cheetah is faster :) However, Shazier is more raw and untested, and is somewhat small in size at 6'1"although Mosley is 6'2" and they weigh more or less the same.

    The evaluation of Mosley is that he makes less mistakes and has a very high football IQ. Shazier is prone to make mistakes especially in tackling. Does Shazier have more upside? Hard to say. Both have an injury history, which is a concern.

    PS With Shazier climbing the charts, it's very unlikely he makes it out of the 1st round, so trading back to the early 2nd round probably means we don't get Shazier either.
  10. thequick12
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    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    "Raw and untested" Idk about that Shazier had better stats than Mosley in ever category except ints and he played 3 years, he's a junior entry, while Mosley played 4. And Shazier weighs more than Mosley, 237 to 234. 1 in height hardly matters when he has a 42 in vertical compared to mosley's 35.
  11. Luca
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    Luca Cheesehead

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    Trading down is gambling, you may win or you may lose. So you should only do it when the odds are in your favor. The odds are in your favour when there are several guys you grade equal, or if you expect other teams to pick guys you don't like anyways. Looking at the current mock drafts and big boards, the odds may favor trading down a few spots (late first). But you are right, that might be different in May.
  12. Vrill
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    Vrill Cheesehead

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    I think CJ is the better "Football player"
    The guy is a real leader. Its what we need.
    Ask Al Davis (RIP) what its like drafting players based around combine numbers.

    As far as College numbers go, dont forget the conferences the two played in. Shazier played in the extremely overrated Big 10. Ohio State in itself was an extremely overrated team. Alabama on the other hand, played in the SEC where each week is a battle and where each week you play a team with offensive lineman that are NFL bound.

    What im saying is, if Shazier was in the SEC, I doubt he'd put the numbers up that he did while at Ohio State.

    Another thing, teams tried passing on Alabama a lot because nobody could run on them. I watch a lot of SEC Football and im an Alabama fan. Teams always got away from running the ball early against Bama because they had zero success. So that is another reason why Shazier has more tackles than CJ.

    CJ has smarts. Hes a leader. Hes great against the pass. He can tackle behind the LOS for losses. Hes a good blitzer.

    In the end, I fully believe that CJ will be the best defensive player that comes out of this draft. Roll Tide bias aside.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  13. thequick12
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    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    Mosley's game film doesn't stand out, he looks good but not great. Also Lacy is the only Alabama player that has lived up to expectations of late. So maybe bama is due to have a legit nfl player come out, maybe Mosley will be that guy. But as you say ohio state is overrated I think a lot of players coming out of Alabama have been overrated in the recent past becas they came out of Alabama.
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  14. Sunshinepacker
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    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Mosley has been one of the best players on the best defense in college football for the past couple years. Before anyone starts talking about how Alabama's dline helped him out, there weren't a lot of terrific Bama dlinemen in recent drafts. Shazier is an amazing physical specimen but anyone that actually think Shazier's playing weight is 237 lbs needs to go back and watch some film. Shazier would be a REALLY small 3-4 ILB. Plus, any thought of Shazier in our defense is relying completely on projection and only focusing on speed.

    Mosley on the other hand has played in a defense similar to our own, is the consensus best coverage middle linebacker in the draft and has proven himself against some of the best players in the country. I honestly don't even know how this can even be a question...maybe if we played a 4-3.
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  15. Sunshinepacker
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    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    You can't compare the numbers of either player. Bama's defense didn't allow offenses nearly as many plays as OSU's (it's kind of like comparing Steve Nash in the Suns assist numbers to the assist number of the Knicks in the late-90s) and Bama's defense is a 3-4 verse a 4-3, Shazier's position is intended to put up more numbers.
  16. brandon2348
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    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    I like them both myself. Shazier makes the defense faster immediately and could be helpful against guys like Kaepernick and Russell Wilson. Either of those guys I could see contributing right away. I just hope TT doesn't draft Ra'hede Hageman. I see it on mock drafts and I cringe. I don't know why another D-lineman is needed early after free agency and especially if Jolly is signed. Plus, after watching tape of Hageman he plays high and gets pushed back a lot. Looks like he needs a lot of work for next level. The only thing I could see him doing immediately is knocking down a few balls. He looks good in the uniform but I question him as a football player. Might have bust written all over it.
  17. Einstein McFly
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    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

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    People are quoting 4.37 which was unofficial at his pro day (and which I don't really buy--he's fast, but not THAT fast) and him being 237. He played close to 220 last year if I recall, so a lot of the comparison between Shazier and Mosley is being obscured by the fact that Mosley is going to be less of an explosive sideline-to-sideline guy and more of a traditional, balanced player who will be able to play the run more effectively than Shazier. Shazier's upside is probably higher than almost anyone else's in this draft, but he could also be a guy without a position who happened to have great combine numbers. I'm not going to say he'll be like Taylor Mays since Shazier's tape looks WAY better, but it's that kind of thing I'd be worried about. Also, the super athletic high upside risky guys aren't really to TT goes after.
  18. Einstein McFly
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    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

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    I've heard the same thing about Hageman. If we draft a dlineman early it should be a NT, which we really need. Then again, if the best player available is a 3-4 DE it'd be too bad a few years down the road when Jolly, Peppers, Raji and who knows who else are gone to see that guy tearing it up for another team. But yeah, I doubt TT takes someone like Hageman.
  19. thequick12
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    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    To be fair mosley's 4.65 is the low unofficial time from his pro day at Alabama.
  20. jaybadger82
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    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Ryan Shazier or CJ Mosley at #21? -That's a false dichotomy.

    We get it, quick: you like Shazier.

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