Rodgers' Leadership Called Into Question Again

NorthWestCheeseHead

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
1,127
Reaction score
103
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Wait a minute, you are a government employee using your work computer to access this site??!! Hope you aren't a Federal or Wisconsin employee! ;) <- just for your information, this is a "wink" smilie. Threads like this bring out the Favre apologists. :rolleyes: It's got to kill 'em how well Rodgers is doing. (And what a strange position for a "Packers fan" to be in!) And even with his imperfections Rodgers is twice the leader Favre ever was. For example, unlike his predecessor, he knows all his teammate's names - that at the very least is the starting point.

I also got a kick out of the comment that Favre also was given a free pass until he started throwing all those INTs. The obvious point to be made is even after he crapped all over the Packers, some fans continued - and to this day continue - to give him a free pass. And when did he start throwing all those INTs? In 1993 Favre threw 24 INTs and 19 TDs. I think he got a free pass well after that. In fact, Favre never threw fewer than 13 INTs in all his years as a Packer and Rodgers has never thrown more than 13. He threw 13 in his first season. Since then, it's been 7, 11, 6, and 8. Favre's TD percentage was 5.0% and his INT percentage was 3.3%. Rodgers are 6.4% and 1.7% respectively.

Generally overlooked in these Rodgers / Favre leadership comparisons is one major difference: Rodgers shows up to training camp on time whereas Favre did not. While that might seem like a small thing to Favre or his supporters, it is actually a very big thing, the kind of thing that gets you fired. Tangentially, dancing on TV for money when one should be at training camp exercising leadership, especially when leadership is the last lone reason one is still on the squad, also earns you a black mark.
 

Quientus

Oenophile
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
792
Reaction score
23
Location
Denmark, Scandinavia
Generally overlooked in these Rodgers / Favre leadership comparisons is one major difference: Rodgers shows up to training camp on time whereas Favre did not. While that might seem like a small thing to Favre or his supporters, it is actually a very big thing, the kind of thing that gets you fired. Tangentially, dancing on TV for money when one should be at training camp exercising leadership, especially when leadership is the last lone reason one is still on the squad, also earns you a black mark.

Regardless of whether Favre showed up for TC or not ... - It was difficult to question his leadership those years when he did lead the Pack ... Irrespective of whether you like/liked the man or not ... You really couldn't question his leadership ...
 

PackPackPackers

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
159
Reaction score
24
This thread is a joke. People can't just admit that Aaron Rodgers is overrated due to NFL rule changes that favor offenses over defenses. I am confident that Aaron Rodgers couldn't have thrown 39 TD's in the mid-1990s like Brett Favre. Plus, who has won 3 MVP's? Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers needs to step up his game and get his head out of his ***. I hate how everyone supports his complaints EVEN when they are completely unfounded. Ugh...it's just so annoying...AARON RODGERS grow a pair and lead a team.

Now that I think about it, the Packers won the SB because of their defense, NOT because of Aaron Rodgers. He just stole the credit....
 

HyponGrey

Caseus Locutus Est
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
3,758
Reaction score
221
Location
South Jersey
Seriously. The Brett Pevre love is ridicule-ous. Rodgers has just as many SB as Brett and is on course to have way fewer INT. 1 MVP down, 2 to go.

BTW who was the MVP of that Favre SB?
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
This thread is a joke. People can't just admit that Aaron Rodgers is overrated due to NFL rule changes that favor offenses over defenses. I am confident that Aaron Rodgers couldn't have thrown 39 TD's in the mid-1990s like Brett Favre. Plus, who has won 3 MVP's? Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers needs to step up his game and get his head out of his ***. I hate how everyone supports his complaints EVEN when they are completely unfounded. Ugh...it's just so annoying...AARON RODGERS grow a pair and lead a team.

Now that I think about it, the Packers won the SB because of their defense, NOT because of Aaron Rodgers. He just stole the credit....

Based on past misunderstandings, I have to ask...are you being "sarcastic"?
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Regardless of whether Favre showed up for TC or not ... - It was difficult to question his leadership

Let that statement settle in a bit...then explain to me how there is a "regardless". Showing up on time is the minimum threshold for claiming any kind of leadership.
 

PSG

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
As an obvious outsider, I am a little surprised by this.
I always assumed Rodgers was a likeable guy. He is my favorite non-Dolphins player in the NFL.
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
This thread is a joke.
It didn’t take long for your true colors to be revealed. I understand HardRightEdge’s hesitation in taking your post seriously because it does appear as a joke. Occasionally I run into football fans who don’t believe there are still Favre fans – people whose allegiance is more to the disgraced former QB than to the team – so every now and then it’s good to have another example. What a shame for so-called Packers fans who dislike and are biased against Thompson, McCarthy and Rodgers because they bought into the idea that Favre was more important than the franchise, as Favre did himself. And look at the kind of “reasoning” it leads to: Rodgers is overrated due to rule changes. As if those changes only apply to Rodgers and the Packers’ offense. IMO the subject of the thread, or that Rodgers’ leadership is being questioned is a little silly but the biggest joke in this thread is your posting.

And BTW it’s easy to question Favre’s leadership. I’m not going to rehash the litany here but if you’re interested do a search and you’ll find more than one Favre thread.
 

FrankRizzo

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
5,858
Reaction score
771
Location
Dallas
I can't stand Farve still.
I believe if Rodgers was the QB of those teams in the 90's, the Packers would have at least won 1 more Super Bowl, but most likely 2 more.

True, Rodgers is not perfect. But he's closer to than any other QB in the NFL today.
 

PackPackPackers

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
159
Reaction score
24
It didn’t take long for your true colors to be revealed. I understand HardRightEdge’s hesitation in taking your post seriously because it does appear as a joke. Occasionally I run into football fans who don’t believe there are still Favre fans – people whose allegiance is more to the disgraced former QB than to the team – so every now and then it’s good to have another example. What a shame for so-called Packers fans who dislike and are biased against Thompson, McCarthy and Rodgers because they bought into the idea that Favre was more important than the franchise, as Favre did himself. And look at the kind of “reasoning” it leads to: Rodgers is overrated due to rule changes. As if those changes only apply to Rodgers and the Packers’ offense. IMO the subject of the thread, or that Rodgers’ leadership is being questioned is a little silly but the biggest joke in this thread is your posting.

And BTW it’s easy to question Favre’s leadership. I’m not going to rehash the litany here but if you’re interested do a search and you’ll find more than one Favre thread.

Lol, when was it assumed that I didn't support Thompson and McCarthy? I never wrote that in any of my posts. There must have been a huge misunderstanding. TT and MM did a solid job of creating an above average tam. Congrats to them, however, that still does not cover up the big flaws this current Packers team has.

FIRSTLY, I have never bought into the idea that Favre was bigger than the franchise. In my opinion, Favre DID build the franchise where it is today. If Favre never existed, then the Packers probably would have still been a small market team like the Jacksonville Jaguars.

SECONDLY, people are so afraid to criticize Rodgers because he is the face of the franchise. Most Packer fans are so blind to see any wrong in Aaron Rodgers. He is treated like a king, which is a really annoying, because he is just like any Packer player. He makes BIG mistakes that people seem to not question his skill. Seriously, I hope Rodgers understands that he will NOT make another SB run until the offensive line gets fixed. Favre had to deal with this pretty much during the entire early/mid 2000s. For Favre having a bad offensive line, it meant to him by taking huge risks that usually resulted into throwing interceptions. For Rodgers having a bad offensive line, it meant to him by taking NO risk that usually resulted in lots sacks/fumbles/killing drives. I hate to say this, but an interception and punting back to another team is essentially the same thing. The opposite team will get an extra possession.

Aaron Rodgers MUST take more chances during pivotal games. There will always be high risk, but the rewards are greater if its successful. This is what made Brett Favre a great player because he made near dead end plays to successful plays due to his unwillingness to take the sack.

Also, it seems that Aaron Rodgers doesn't want to mess up his "clean" stats/QBR rating/INT rate so he automatically defaults into taking the sack since he doesn't see anything open. Maybe he loves the praise by all the media journalists and ESPN of how good he is at protecting the ball...seriously Aaron? It's a team sport...
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
Favre didn’t build the franchise. Harlan, Wolf and Holmgren re-built it but it’s common for “Favre-first” fans like yourself to believe Favre built it. You may not remember but Holmgren came close to replacing your hero with Mark Brunell. We can’t go back in time but with the historically good defense the ’96 Packers had I’d like their chances. That Packers defense finished first in scoring D that season and while they weren’t better than the ’85 Bears D, they surrendered fewer TDs (19 vs. 22) in the regular season.

Your Favre colored glasses apparently are blurring your perception. Packers fans, let alone “people” criticize Rodgers all the time, mostly for holding the ball too long. And if you hadn’t noticed, the subject of this thread is regarding criticism of Rodgers. BTW, love your excuse making for Favre: No, an INT doesn’t equal a punt. Only an apologist for the NFL’s most prolific thrower of interceptions would attempt such a foolish comparison or advocate for Rodgers to throw more INTs. Here’s the difference: It’s such an obvious point it shouldn’t have to be made but it is possible to overcome a sack and continue a series.

Thankfully unlike Favre, Rodgers is careful with the ball, both in the pocket and throwing it. Their TD INT ratios are in a post above. Perhaps you didn’t notice but not only is Rodgers’ INT ratio much lower than Favre’s, his TD ratio is higher. But it’s not surprising you don’t get that. One of the characteristics of Favre fans is they’re usually not too good with facts. Like posting that Rodgers hanging onto the ball results in more fumbles. As in most statistical categories (that don’t reflect longevity), Rodgers is significantly better than Favre: According to nfl.com during Favre’s first five years starting for the Packers he fumbled the ball 52 times and lost 21 fumbles. During Rodgers five seasons starting he’s fumbled 33 times, losing 12. I challenge you to find any five-year period in which Favre lost 12 or fewer fumbles.

One of the few things you got right is it is indeed a team game. Think of Favre’s teammates while they witnessed his foolish recklessness in throwing 6 INTs in a playoff game. Or when he threw that embarrassing game ending “punt of a throw” in OT against the Eagles. Or when he threw the game ending INT in Lambeau against the Giants while a wide open Ryan Grant was right in front of him.
 

Quientus

Oenophile
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
792
Reaction score
23
Location
Denmark, Scandinavia
Favre didn’t build the franchise. Harlan, Wolf and Holmgren re-built it but it’s common for “Favre-first” fans like yourself to believe Favre built it. You may not remember but Holmgren came close to replacing your hero with Mark Brunell. We can’t go back in time but with the historically good defense the ’96 Packers had I’d like their chances. That Packers defense finished first in scoring D that season and while they weren’t better than the ’85 Bears D, they surrendered fewer TDs (19 vs. 22) in the regular season.

Your Favre colored glasses apparently are blurring your perception. Packers fans, let alone “people” criticize Rodgers all the time, mostly for holding the ball too long. And if you hadn’t noticed, the subject of this thread is regarding criticism of Rodgers. BTW, love your excuse making for Favre: No, an INT doesn’t equal a punt. Only an apologist for the NFL’s most prolific thrower of interceptions would attempt such a foolish comparison or advocate for Rodgers to throw more INTs. Here’s the difference: It’s such an obvious point it shouldn’t have to be made but it is possible to overcome a sack and continue a series.
(...)

Can't argue there ... pretty much agree with that assessment ...

(...)
Thankfully unlike Favre, Rodgers is careful with the ball, both in the pocket and throwing it. Their TD INT ratios are in a post above. Perhaps you didn’t notice but not only is Rodgers’ INT ratio much lower than Favre’s, his TD ratio is higher. But it’s not surprising you don’t get that. One of the characteristics of Favre fans is they’re usually not too good with facts. Like posting that Rodgers hanging onto the ball results in more fumbles. As in most statistical categories (that don’t reflect longevity), Rodgers is significantly better than Favre: According to nfl.com during Favre’s first five years starting for the Packers he fumbled the ball 52 times and lost 21 fumbles. During Rodgers five seasons starting he’s fumbled 33 times, losing 12. I challenge you to find any five-year period in which Favre lost 12 or fewer fumbles.

On the above I disagree, the NFL has changed immensely in the past 15 years, just look around the league and at the numbers ALOT of QB's are putting up ... - But I digress, that is for another thread ...

(...)
One of the few things you got right is it is indeed a team game. Think of Favre’s teammates while they witnessed his foolish recklessness in throwing 6 INTs in a playoff game. Or when he threw that embarrassing game ending “punt of a throw” in OT against the Eagles. Or when he threw the game ending INT in Lambeau against the Giants while a wide open Ryan Grant was right in front of him.

Seriously ... - You started out so well, but then you regress into this ? ... - Come on ... Who are wearing coloured glasses now ???


On topic though, ... - It seems more people have begun to notice some traits in Aaron Rodgers that are not to be commended ... And like him or not ... in some examples he (Arod) is starting to show glimses of "diva-behaviour" ...
 

Un4GivN

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
811
Reaction score
82
Location
Green Bay
  • Best touchdown to interception ratio in NFL history.
  • Tied NFL record for most consecutive games with at least two touchdown passes (13).
  • Tied NFL record for most consecutive playoff games with at least 3 touchdown passes (3).
  • Only player in NFL history to throw for over 4,000 yards in each of the first two seasons as a starting QB
  • Only player in NFL history to throw 45+ touchdowns, and 6 or fewer interceptions in a single season
  • His 84-14 TD-Int ratio the past 2 seasons is the best 2-year stretch in NFL History
  • His 84 TD passes the past 2 season is the 2nd highest back-to-back total in NFL History. Only Drew Brees has more (89), but Brees also has tossed 19 more Int's those 2 years (33 to Rodgers 14).


Impressive personal accomplishments for a man who also is...
  • 5-20 in fourth quarter comebacks
  • 1-2 last three playoffs games (Only win coming against a back-up quarterback in the first round)
  • 5 TD and 2 interceptions in last 3 playoff games
  • Taken massive amount of drive killing sacks just to boost his QBR (Which explains why he is ranked 5th in total QBR)
  • Hasnt thrown for 300 in the postseason in last 3 playoff games
  • Hasnt thrown for 3 Tds in last 3 playoff games
Rodgers is no doubt top 5 quarterback and I am not trying to make it sound like he isnt. But he hasnt shown up in the playoff or in 4th quarters of games. Just observation.
 

rodell330

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
5,611
Reaction score
494
Location
Canton, Ohio
This thread is a joke. People can't just admit that Aaron Rodgers is overrated due to NFL rule changes that favor offenses over defenses. I am confident that Aaron Rodgers couldn't have thrown 39 TD's in the mid-1990s like Brett Favre. Plus, who has won 3 MVP's? Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers needs to step up his game and get his head out of his ***. I hate how everyone supports his complaints EVEN when they are completely unfounded. Ugh...it's just so annoying...AARON RODGERS grow a pair and lead a team.

Now that I think about it, the Packers won the SB because of their defense, NOT because of Aaron Rodgers. He just stole the credit....


Last time i checked he won the MVP in the SB not a return man.. also Fart had a great defense when the Pack won against the Patriots in that SB so?? If Rodgers plays for as long as Fart did he will win more MVP's and Super Bowls then he did guarantee it.
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
  • Taken massive amount of drive killing sacks just to boost his QBR (Which explains why he is ranked 5th in total QBR)
There is not even a scintilla of evidence to support this and it only serves to display your bias. It obviously is not 'just an observation'. IMO your objection to me pointing out Favre's meltdowns in the playoffs also shows your bias. Favre was consistently reckless with the ball, even in the biggest games.
 

Un4GivN

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
811
Reaction score
82
Location
Green Bay
There is not even a scintilla of evidence to support this and it only serves to display your bias. It obviously is not 'just an observation'. IMO your objection to me pointing out Favre's meltdowns in the playoffs also shows your bias. Favre was consistently reckless with the ball, even in the biggest games.

Huh?

Never once have I mentioned Favre, I think A-Rod is far far superior at this given moment than Favre was even in his prime. So that just show your bias to wanting to prove your point.

And as far as this isn't proven stat... I showed the empirical evidence to this in another thread, A-Rod takes almost twice as many sacks over the last three years as Tom Brady who has ZERO agility. And given the fact that he is given on average the same amount of time in the pocket, per the same stats... And that 7-10 yard losses kill drives. I would say there is plenty of evidence to this.

Granted this isn't end all, as you could argue Brady's receivers are better, the offensive scheme is better, or that he is playing inferior opponents... It is a good indication that A-Rod takes A LOT of sacks on himself, which in turn hurts the team. That is a FACT.

Now as I said this before, but I will take a sack over an INT. But A-Rod is definitely not without his own problems in the last 2 years playoff appearences. That's all I am saying.
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
Huh? Never once have I mentioned Favre,
Sorry about that, got you confused with Quientus.
And as far as this isn't proven stat... I showed the empirical evidence to this in another thread, A-Rod takes almost twice as many sacks over the last three years as Tom Brady who has ZERO agility. And given the fact that he is given on average the same amount of time in the pocket, per the same stats... And that 7-10 yard losses kill drives. I would say there is plenty of evidence to this.
You have offered ZERO evidence that Rodgers takes sacks "just to boost his QBR". You've only offered obvious evidence that he takes a lot of sacks. By adding a motive you have absolutely ZERO evidence to back up you are saying Rodgers cares more about stats than winning. That he cares more about stats than he cares about the team. That's complete bovine scatology.
 

Un4GivN

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
811
Reaction score
82
Location
Green Bay
Sorry about that, got you confused with Quientus. You have offered ZERO evidence that Rodgers takes sacks "just to boost his QBR". You've only offered obvious evidence that he takes a lot of sacks. By adding a motive you have absolutely ZERO evidence to back up you are saying Rodgers cares more about stats than winning. That he cares more about stats than he cares about the team. That's complete bovine scatology.

I will agree partially to that point... Knowing motive is nearly impossible unless he flat out says it.

So I will change it to simply...
  • Takes a massive amount of sacks
Whatever the reason is he does this at an alarming rate.
 

okcpackerfan

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
743
Reaction score
133
Huh?

Never once have I mentioned Favre, I think A-Rod is far far superior at this given moment than Favre was even in his prime. So that just show your bias to wanting to prove your point.

And as far as this isn't proven stat... I showed the empirical evidence to this in another thread, A-Rod takes almost twice as many sacks over the last three years as Tom Brady who has ZERO agility. And given the fact that he is given on average the same amount of time in the pocket, per the same stats... And that 7-10 yard losses kill drives. I would say there is plenty of evidence to this.

Granted this isn't end all, as you could argue Brady's receivers are better, the offensive scheme is better, or that he is playing inferior opponents... It is a good indication that A-Rod takes A LOT of sacks on himself, which in turn hurts the team. That is a FACT.

Now as I said this before, but I will take a sack over an INT. But A-Rod is definitely not without his own problems in the last 2 years playoff appearences. That's all I am saying.

no you can't
 

okcpackerfan

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
743
Reaction score
133
I will agree partially to that point... Knowing motive is nearly impossible unless he flat out says it.

So I will change it to simply...
  • Takes a massive amount of sacks
Whatever the reason is he does this at an alarming rate.


I agree with you that he takes more sacks than he should, we don't know the motive but it's definitely more than he should - you can tell that by watching a few packers games casually let alone every game, every snap like most of us. I obviously don't know the reason but in my opinion it's because he feels that throwing the ball away is "giving up" and he is always trying to make something happen.
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
I'll bet that's closer to the truth - he takes sacks because he wants to give his receivers a chance to make a big play and because he realizes that a sack is far superior to an INT. And those of us who criticize him for holding onto the ball too long have to recognize the number of times his doing so results in a first down or TD.

It also needs to be said that the main reason Rodgers is sacked a lot - over the last couple of seasons at least - is because he directs a pass first offense and his "pass protectors" (not just the OL) aren't very good. Also, McGinn (who I believe gets these numbers from the Packers) has Rodgers being responsible for 14 of the teams 55 sacks in 18 games. Like many of you, I think that's too many but it shouldn't be overstated.

But no worries about this for next season: I think McCarthy has come up with the cure:

Last training camp, McCarthy started using a new gadget in training camp, a 2.5-second clock on the sidelines that’s used to alert players on passing plays. The clock, which is used during seven-on-seven and team drills, is set at 2.5 seconds and starts when the ball is snapped. When it runs to zero, a subdued siren sounds and colored lights flash. This morning McCarthy announced that in addition to the siren, Rodgers will receive an electric shock during the drills if he still has the ball after 2.5 seconds.

http://if youbelievethisisarealquoteIhaveabridgeforsale.com
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest posts

Top