Revisiting the Worthy trade now...

[60six]

"TED" doesn't choose the players to draft, Coach McCarthy does. "Ted" doesn't study film day & night so he can call the plays. "Ted" is a cheap tightwad that squeaks when he walks. The Packers lose to many players to free agency because management won't pay to keep them. TT looks to get cheap players through the draft to replace them , yet he is just gambling that drafted players will become starters. Coach McCarthy and his staff do their best to pick those players, but nobody really knows how they will turn out. Occasionally the team gets a quality free agent , and yes Thompson does acquire them, but nobody knows how much pressure Coach McCarthy exerts to get "TT" to grab a crowbar to open his wallet. Thompson is all about the bottom line, the profit margin , the mighty dollar. If a championship meant very much to him ,and this season is going to be the best chance the Packers have had in a while, he'd be out trying to get the team a starting quality nose tackle.
Lounging in his fine home and placing his dining orders with his cook is not getting the job done. Maintaining the status quo is not enough to win SB's. A GM needs to be cautiously aggressive to give the team the best chance to win. That old man just got a new contract from the conservative Executive Committee. They are as timid as he is and are satisfied to collect their checks and sip their Brandy. The Packers need a GM that knows business, is not afraid to boldly go after players, and knows the game . I'm sure he does a fine job of booking hotels and chartering transportation, as well as ordering food to feed the team. He has done well updating Lambeau Field and it's facilities, but he's just a plain 55mph General Manager.

Yea, MMs drafts the last couple years were not too good, maybe he should throw TT a bone and let him pick a couple. Anyway, I have to say TTs food and lodging choices are some of the NFLs best and his choice of halftime entertainment is to die for.

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

Smokey, your thinking with your heart and not head. In the CAP era you have to pick and chose who you retain. The Steelers hung on to their aging players for one more run, they swung for the fence and came up just short, How have they been doing since? I don't think we are really desperate even with these injuries, We have depth and youth everywhere and this is the season the guys we have been waiting for can step up. Jones will be a sophomore, Perry is healthy, Peppers I believe is going to tilt the field on defense. we have lots of depth and young guns. you bring a guy in to our system at this point and there's no guarantee he will perform or stay healthy. Save the money for the ones your are developing now. we have maybe 10 more years with Aroge, I would rather spend them in contention and retaining the talent we develop than rolling the dice on other teams players.

There are many ways to create "Cap" money . But sitting on your hands and hoping that you will get the same result is crazy.
Albert Einstein once said that "Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result". (quote may not be perfect) The Packers have been too conservative under TT . Coach McCarthy and his staff pick the players that are drafted, not TT. Yes TT must approve trades and player contracts , but we all know that he will not trade for players. I was shocked when he got J.Peppers. McCarthy must have really put on the pressure to get him to do it. He could unload 1 or 2 players in return a better player at nose tackle.
TT would go to Las Vegas and never walk into a casino. He maintains the status quo, but that is not being cautiously aggressive. You can't win at poker if you don't sit down and play. TT is the guy that drives at 55 mph, as others drive by pointing and laughing.

 

[TJV]

Coach McCarthy and his staff pick the players that are drafted, not TT.

Present evidence to back up this ridiculous claim.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

There are many ways to create "Cap" money . But sitting on your hands and hoping that you will get the same result is crazy.
Albert Einstein once said that "Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result". (quote may not be perfect) The Packers have been too conservative under TT . Coach McCarthy and his staff pick the players that are drafted, not TT. Yes TT must approve trades and player contracts , but we all know that he will not trade for players. I was shocked when he got J.Peppers. McCarthy must have really put on the pressure to get him to do it. He could unload 1 or 2 players in return a better player at nose tackle.
TT would go to Las Vegas and never walk into a casino. He maintains the status quo, but that is not being cautiously aggressive. You can't win at poker if you don't sit down and play. TT is the guy that drives at 55 mph, as others drive by pointing and laughing.

We had a Championship caliber team last season, he couldn't have signed or traded for enough players to replace all the injuries we sustained to key players. The nose tackle just has to hold the point of attack and let the linebackers pass rush I didn't see any drop off of D play once Raji went out. How knows he may pick up a young guy off waivers if for some reason he thinks he needs more depth but if Guion is healthy again then he may not feel the need. Getting a center would do no good since he knows nothing about the system. Well know in the next couple of weeks.

 

[60six]

There are many ways to create "Cap" money . But sitting on your hands and hoping that you will get the same result is crazy.
Albert Einstein once said that "Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result". (quote may not be perfect) The Packers have been too conservative under TT . Coach McCarthy and his staff pick the players that are drafted, not TT. Yes TT must approve trades and player contracts , but we all know that he will not trade for players. I was shocked when he got J.Peppers. McCarthy must have really put on the pressure to get him to do it. He could unload 1 or 2 players in return a better player at nose tackle.
TT would go to Las Vegas and never walk into a casino. He maintains the status quo, but that is not being cautiously aggressive. You can't win at poker if you don't sit down and play. TT is the guy that drives at 55 mph, as others drive by pointing and laughing.

You are obviously misinformed, but hey you got that going for ya

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

TT changes the team every year so your Einstein quote doesn't apply. You say the Packers could unload 1-2 players to bring in a NT, but there needs to be a trading partner. Very few trades are players-for-players, and TT already unloaded Worthy. Not many teams are willing to give up a NT, though. I would say that TT bringing in Peppers is being cautiously aggressive.

The fact is that there is a salary cap. We have a lot of money tied up in Rodgers, Matthews, Nelson, and now Shields. Each of those guys makes $9.75 million per year or more. TT doesn't spend big money going outside the team because he spends money paying the developed guys from within. Simply put, you can't do both. Paying players from within also helps encourage UDFA's to come here, because they know if they perform TT will pay them the money.

UDFA's , really ! I wonder what TT was pressured with. Did TT get his new contract before or after J.Peppers got his ? As for keeping players the Packers develop. J.Worthy, G.Jennings, James Jones, Evan Detrich-Smith, R. Pickett, M.Flynn, .....

TT is that guy you see driving at 55 mph as everyone else drives by pointing and laughing .

 

[TJV]

TT is that guy you see driving at 55 mph as everyone else drives by pointing and laughing .

Your analogy actually applies to you on this board after that ridiculous claim. Present evidence that McCarthy and staff control the draft or be prepared to have fingers pointed at you and you being the one laughed at.

 

[easyk83]

Your analogy actually applies to you on this board after that ridiculous claim. Present evidence that McCarthy and staff control the draft or be prepared to have fingers pointed at you and you being the one laughed at.

Gawd Thx, TT is not God. This isn't some kind of orthodoxy where everyone has to worship Ted Thompson the savior and redeemer of our SINS! I mean really guys, if you take away Aaron Rodgers who was the obvious pick that a majority of NFL GMs passed on, or Nick Collins( I hated that pick at the time but it was totes obvbious), or Clay Matthews which was also totes obvious even though most draft publications panned that selection, or Greg Jennings or Charles Woodson... or pretty much any talented player that Ted Thompson ever brought in... it becomes pretty obvious that Ted Thompson sucks!

Ok now that I got that out of my system, I am a TT man. I do find that of Ted Thompson's critics there are two camps. First there are those who rationally critique Ted's selections in the draft and personnel decisions. They point out shortcomings in some of our drafts, the failure to bring Cullen Jenkins back on the cheap as well a lack of aggression in pursuing trades and affordable FAs. This group might also wonder whether or not past success had more to do with now departed personnel execs. HRE, no im not calling you out, is a good example of this. While I disagree with them I respect their opinions.

Then there's another. more motley group. These types tend to advance ludicrous nonsensical arguments such as... well if you discount the acquisition of Matthews Woodson and Rodgers TT isn't that good. These types can usually be found on draft day pulling out their hair and grinding their teeth because Ted Thompson didn't draft there guy. Among them are wannabe draftniks, Madden GMs, and a few fans who are still upset over the transition from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers.

The former category contribute to some fine discussions on the state of the team. The latter category, well you would be better off having a conversation with a streetlight.

 

[Carl]

UDFA's , really ! I wonder what TT was pressured with. Did TT get his new contract before or after J.Peppers got his ? As for keeping players the Packers develop. J.Worthy, G.Jennings, James Jones, Evan Detrich-Smith, R. Pickett, M.Flynn, .....

TT is that guy you see driving at 55 mph as everyone else drives by pointing and laughing .

Rodgers, Jordy, Lang, Sitton, Matthews, Shields, Williams, Starks, Quarless, Crosby, B. Jones, Masthay, Starks, M. Neal, Hawk, Bush. All guys on a second or third contract. They keep plenty of the guys they develop. The ones let go were not worth the money they got elsewhere or just weren't that good.

Jennings absence hasn't even hurt the team.

If you're going to include Worthy as a guy they developed and let go, I could also include his entire draft class.

Also, Pickett was a veteran free agent, not a guy they developed.

 

[TJV]

Gawd Thx, TT is not God. This isn't some kind of orthodoxy where everyone has to worship Ted Thompson the savior and redeemer of our SINS!

Just to be clear (even though this post seems to go from hyperbole/sarcasm to a serious discussion of Thompson) I am not criticizing Smokeychedder for criticizing Thompson – I have criticized Thompson. This is Smokey’s outrageous statement to which I was responding:

Coach McCarthy and his staff pick the players that are drafted, not TT.

I’ve challenged him twice to provide evidence to support this and of course he can’t. BTW I think he’s such an outlier on this that I can’t remember a single other Thompson critic – even those “way out there” who allege such a foolish notion. In fact they criticize Thompson because he’s completely in control of player acquisition, including the draft.

 

[ls1bob]

I'm a Brett fan,but at the end of the day I know TT had to do what is best for the organization,and that was a steady non disruptive course for the team and not a media circus every training camp. The man had guts to make the decision to trade a legend and it has paid off well for us. As far as his draft picks go TT has had great success as far as offense goes,defense has been very hit and miss but I DO NOT blame it on him. If MM runs the offense and tells TT what he needs on offense and he gets MM's players couldn't DC be telling TT what players he wants? And if DC keeps trying all different types of players to make his schemes work(and they don't) maybe (and I know it is early to start beating that horse) DC needs to be the one that needs to get some of the blame for the busts on defense

 

[PikeBadger]

I don't have a problem with people being critical of Thompson, and I appreciate and respect the civil and well explained manner that TJV and HRE do so even though I don't usually agree with their critique of Thompson.

There is no front office in the NFL that is pointing and laughing at Thompson. He is very highly respected among his peers.

Ted drives 55 because the road is bumpy, hilly and curvy. The ones driving 90 end up dead wrapped around a tree 5 miles down the road.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I’ve challenged him twice to provide evidence to support this and of course he can’t. BTW I think he’s such an outlier on this that I can’t remember a single other Thompson critic – even those “way out there” who allege such a foolish notion

Shooting fish in a barrel is hardly sport.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Shooting fish in a barrel is hardly sport.

well, we could make it a sport....... Large fish and a small gun might make that more interesting, right?

 

[HardRightEdge]

well, we could make it a sport....... Large fish and a small gun might make that more interesting, right?

There should be a rule, though...shooting the same fish twice should result in a lost turn.

 

[TJV]

It's not my fault he put himself in a barrel and since he did so twice (2 separate threads) I asked for evidence twice. Oshkoshpackfan, shouldn't it be smaller fish in a larger barrel to make it more interesting?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm a Brett fan,but at the end of the day I know TT had to do what is best for the organization,and that was a steady non disruptive course for the team and not a media circus every training camp. The man had guts to make the decision to trade a legend and it has paid off well for us. As far as his draft picks go TT has had great success as far as offense goes,defense has been very hit and miss but I DO NOT blame it on him. If MM runs the offense and tells TT what he needs on offense and he gets MM's players couldn't DC be telling TT what players he wants? And if DC keeps trying all different types of players to make his schemes work(and they don't) maybe (and I know it is early to start beating that horse) DC needs to be the one that needs to get some of the blame for the busts on defense

To the extent the DC is picking players, it's from a limited menu prepared by the scouting department.

If anything, it's more like he expresses a need, "more length at DE as a priority", which he in fact did in one of his rare press comments. But Capers has not spent 2 years poring over tape for a draft class, or reviewing reports from the National Scouting consortium, or attending the Combine and Pro Days, or conducting interviews. The likely scenario is Thompson and the scouting staff provides a tape of candidates they like that fit the requirements.

So, Datone Jones ends up getting drafted to fill that need. If a year or two from now we conclude that Datone Jones has caused a bout of organizational indigestion, do you blame the cooks who prepared the menu or the customer who chose which meal to order when in fact none of the choices might have been satisfying? That's even assuming Jones was in fact a Capers favorite among likely options.

I could see Capers having more direct input in the Peppers signing because, unlike the draft, it's a binary decision...either sign him at an affordable price that matches his perceived value in the system, or don't. Capers would be in the best position to assess fit; he knows the player; he's game planned for him many times.

Capers expressed desire this past off season was more general and indirect...a defense needs "three playmakers " to build around. So we count...(1) Mathews, (2) maybe one of the DBs manages a half dozen picks without getting burned left and right jumping routes (see 2011), and (3) uh, uh, uh. So he was given Peppers, a guy who wanted to play in a 3-4 at least since he left Carolina (just as I always dreamed of being a banker. ) I think Capers should get a healthy dose of blame if Peppers is not productive. Judging from the last preseason game, I doubt that will be an issue.

But in the end, if Thompson gave Capers the players he asked for, with Capers delivering these past 3 sub-standard seasons, and Thompson chose to keep Capers around, that's on Thompson. He's the GM.

I believe if there is not substantial improvement in the defense this season Capers will be canned.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It's not my fault he put himself in a barrel and since he did so twice (2 separate threads) I asked for evidence twice. Oshkoshpackfan, shouldn't it be smaller fish in a larger barrel to make it more interesting?

Guns don't shoot fish. People shoot fish.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Worthy released by Patriots, so no pick for the Packers.

 

[HyponGrey]

Hindsight is. 20/20 but I bet TT wishes he would've held on to Worthy just a little longer. Raji is done in Packer land for sure now with his injury sidelining him for the season but having Jerel Worthy would have made things a little easier from a depth standpoint.

All we have to do is claim him off waivers. Frankly I'd rather just re-sign Pickett or Jolly. So.. No.

 

[HyponGrey]

Guns don't shoot fish. People shoot fish.

People don't shoot fish. Fish shoot fish.

 

[El Guapo]

There is some obvious stink on Worthy if even Belichek took a sniff and decided there was no meat on the bone.

 

[Einstein McFly]

Worthy got a lot of snaps his first year and didn't show anything. That's not conclusive since there are lots of guys who make huge jumps after lousy rookie years, but it's not like Sherrod where we saw next to nothing from the guy in a live game before he was injured. It could just be that what make Worthy good at MSU doesn't work at this level and, even without the injuries, he just can't compete. Too bad we spent a second round pick on the guy.

 

[brandon2348]

Does Jerel "Worthless" need anymore revisiting?