Praise for Raji, Yet I'm Concerned

[El Guapo]

This is from an NFC North blog on ESPN: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/58361/live-blog-minnesota-vikings-training-camp

• 
  
  1:04 PM​
  Justin
  
  What defensive lineman is the hardest to contain in the NFC North?
• Kevin Seifert
  
  SULLIVAN: B.J. Raji when he's playing his hardest.

• It's good to hear the Vikings starting center say that Raji is the hardest to contain, but a little concerning that he tossed in the qualifier of "when he's playing his hardest." I wonder if Sullivan thinks that Raji takes too many plays off

 

[ivo610]

This is from an NFC North blog on ESPN: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/58361/live-blog-minnesota-vikings-training-camp

• It's good to hear the Vikings starting center say that Raji is the hardest to contain, but a little concerning that he tossed in the qualifier of "when he's playing his hardest." I wonder if Sullivan thinks that Raji takes too many plays off

It's not that he takes too many plays off, it's that he doesn't take enough off.

Due to injuries and depth of the position, his snap count is much higher than it should be. He is often gassed when we need him the most. I think that might change this season based on depth as well as changes to the defensive scheme

 

[Sunshinepacker]

In 2011 Raji played too many snaps. In 2012 that wasn't the case. If he needs more snaps off than he got in 2012 then he's not worth a sizable contract.

 

[easyk83]

In 2011 Raji played too many snaps. In 2012 that wasn't the case. If he needs more snaps off than he got in 2012 then he's not worth a sizable contract.

In 2012 he still played too many snaps, most teams try to keep their big men around 50% of the snaps, whereas Raji was still playing around 75-80%. Besides even at that rate the team noted that he showed more burst and disruptive ability.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Scouts constantly say Raji takes plays off. Check McGinn's final season comments for example. His snap average was down in 2012 to 46.8 from 53.5 the year before. According to McGinn that's a manageable number and I agree. I want to see him take over a game like he did in 2010. He seems to be especially absent in big games of late.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

In 2012 he still played too many snaps, most teams try to keep their big men around 50% of the snaps, whereas Raji was still playing around 75-80%. Besides even at that rate the team noted that he showed more burst and disruptive ability.

Raji played 768 snaps last year. Geno Atkins played 806, Gerald McCoy played 968, Suh played 910, Wilfork played 910. Those are defensive tackles. Raji played mostly at 3-4 DE last season; among 3-4 ends Watt played over 1,000 snaps, Wilkerson played 930 and there are plenty others who played more than Raji. Playing a lot of snaps doesn't affect those guys. If it affects Raji then his lack of endurance and toughness needs to be priced into his next contract. Don't really see how a "dominant" dlineman can only be on the field for half the team's snaps.

 

[easyk83]

Raji played 768 snaps last year. Geno Atkins played 806, Gerald McCoy played 968, Suh played 910, Wilfork played 910. Those are defensive tackles. Raji played mostly at 3-4 DE last season; among 3-4 ends Watt played over 1,000 snaps, Wilkerson played 930 and there are plenty others who played more than Raji. Playing a lot of snaps doesn't affect those guys. If it affects Raji then his lack of endurance and toughness needs to be priced into his next contract. Don't really see how a "dominant" dlineman can only be on the field for half the team's snaps.

I stand corrected.

 

[HyponGrey]

Raji played 768 snaps last year. Geno Atkins played 806, Gerald McCoy played 968, Suh played 910, Wilfork played 910. Those are defensive tackles. Raji played mostly at 3-4 DE last season; among 3-4 ends Watt played over 1,000 snaps, Wilkerson played 930 and there are plenty others who played more than Raji. Playing a lot of snaps doesn't affect those guys. If it affects Raji then his lack of endurance and toughness needs to be priced into his next contract. Don't really see how a "dominant" dlineman can only be on the field for half the team's snaps.

Didn catch Raji playing a lot of DE last year... Even back in HS Raji was a guy who needed somebody next to him that could set the tone in order to stand out. Jones may be the best thing to happen to Raji, if either one of them could play with some manner of discipline.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Didn catch Raji playing a lot of DE last year...

It was easy to miss. He probably played more DE than NT last season. In nickel (which we ran about 65% of the time last season) there is no NT...a couple of 3 technique DTs...and Raji filled that role regularly and Pickett almost always sat.

So, (1) Raji only played DE during the 35% of snaps we were in base, (2) he did not play about 25% of the snaps all told...some of those would have been in base, (3) a lot of that base D was on running downs and Raji wasn't making many tackles to get noticed, and (4) though Raji seems to have graded out decently in pass rush based on "pressures", he wasn't getting a lot of hits and had no sacks, so again where he rushes from in base could be easily overlooked.

 

[Einstein McFly]

Scouts constantly say Raji takes plays off. Check McGinn's final season comments for example. His snap average was down in 2012 to 46.8 from 53.5 the year before. According to McGinn that's a manageable number and I agree. I want to see him take over a game like he did in 2010. He seems to be especially absent in big games of late.

The playoff game against the vikings last year was a pretty big game, and Raji totally owned Sullivan, a 2012 all-pro center. He disappeared against the 9ers, but so did everyone else.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The playoff game against the vikings last year was a pretty big game, and Raji totally owned Sullivan, a 2012 all-pro center. He disappeared against the 9ers, but so did everyone else.

He didn't have a bad game in the playoff game against the Vikings but he didn't have a good game either. You might be thinking of the week 17 game against the Vikings. In wk 17 he had 4 tackles, 4 stops, 1 missed tackles and 2 hurries. In the playoff game against the Vikings he had 2 hurries and 2 missed tackles...that's it. Pro Football Focus rated him out at +2.2 in wk 17 but -0.1 in the playoff game (he was -3.8 against the 49ers).

 

[13 Times Champs]

The playoff game against the vikings last year was a pretty big game, and Raji totally owned Sullivan, a 2012 all-pro center. He disappeared against the 9ers, but so did everyone else.

See above post. He didn't do squat in the 2012 playoff game against the Giants either.

 

[El Guapo]

He did something in 2010!

...as did many of our defensive players who have since disappeared

 

[TJV]

There’s a reason the Packers are letting Raji prove his worth before getting his extension – if he gets one. IMO playing one of the two DL spots in sub packages is the most demanding task asked of DL but even so, Raji has to show more consistent effort and production. In his favor: Pickett is 33 and can't play forever. The Packers have four DTs listed on their roster at 320 pounds or more: Raji, Pickett, Jolly, and Pena. Jolly and Pena at this point are obviously "unknowns". IMO if Raji hits UFA there'll be a huge demand for him because of his age and the talent he's flashed.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I honestly think that Raji is worth more to 4-3 teams than he is to the Packers. I think Raji lacks the toughness and selflessness to play dline in a 3-4. He'd probably excel as a defensive tackle in a 4-3, where he's allowed to rush more often and not have to fight off multiple olinemen.

 

[HyponGrey]

There’s a reason the Packers are letting Raji prove his worth before getting his extension – if he gets one. IMO playing one of the two DL spots in sub packages is the most demanding task asked of DL but even so, Raji has to show more consistent effort and production. In his favor: Pickett is 33 and can't play forever. The Packers have four DTs listed on their roster at 320 pounds or more: Raji, Pickett, Jolly, and Pena. Jolly and Pena at this point are obviously "unknowns". IMO if Raji hits UFA there'll be a huge demand for him because of his age and the talent he's flashed.

From what I hear Jolly is making himself a difficult cut. Pena might not make PS

 

[HyponGrey]

He didn't have a bad game in the playoff game against the Vikings but he didn't have a good game either. You might be thinking of the week 17 game against the Vikings. In wk 17 he had 4 tackles, 4 stops, 1 missed tackles and 2 hurries. In the playoff game against the Vikings he had 2 hurries and 2 missed tackles...that's it. Pro Football Focus rated him out at +2.2 in wk 17 but -0.1 in the playoff game (he was -3.8 against the 49ers).

By the #s, because he over pursued, leaving lanes for Peterson. Stats don't always tell the whole story. Shoutbox was a mess that day.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

By the #s, because he over pursued, leaving lanes for Peterson. Stats don't always tell the whole story. Shoutbox was a mess that day.

Sorry, slightly confused. Are you saying that his week 17 was actually a bad week while the playoff game was actually a good game? If so, I might agree with the week 17 game being worse than the rating but the playoff game was poor even IF he was more disciplined. Being disciplined doesn't mean you can't impact the game. He also missed the only two tackles he attempted in the playoff win against the Vikes.

 

[HyponGrey]

Sorry, slightly confused. Are you saying that his week 17 was actually a bad week while the playoff game was actually a good game? If so, I might agree with the week 17 game being worse than the rating but the playoff game was poor even IF he was more disciplined. Being disciplined doesn't mean you can't impact the game. He also missed the only two tackles he attempted in the playoff win against the Vikes.

Nope, I just misunderstood what you said. I forgot we had a bye week making game 16 on week 17, not 16. Completely my bad.