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Packers status

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by net, Sep 19, 2005.

  1. net
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    net Cheesehead

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    The best thing to do at this point is to EXHALE, and realize better days are ahead. My take on this team is something that few seem to to discuss:

    Retooling and rebuilding.

    The Packers don't like to talk about it because the fans tend to lose interest when you know it. But it's as plain as the record.

    Lets face the first fact:

    1) While not impossible, it's highly unlikely the Packers will make the playoffs. Although anything is possible in the NFC North. How would you like to be a Vikings fan today? Think the Packers have it bad? The Vikings have looked pathetic,(with all those WONDERFUL AND EXPENSIVE FREE AGENTS that everyone said would put them in the Super Bowl) as I watched both of their games. Dulpecker looks like a rookie. Losing Scott Linehan to Miami and a couple guys on the offensive line (plus Moss) have them reeling. The Bears for goodness sake, are tied with the Lions for the division lead...that's how pathetic it is. Chris Hovan ate Minnesota's linemen alive, to show you how bad it is there.

    2)The defense will begin to play better as the season goes on. This is a new defense with new faces in most places. Quite honestly, they have played better than I thought at times. Roman and Collins gave up two big plays or the Packers would have won on Sunday. Roman isn't the answer at safety.

    3)The offense misses Wahle and Rivera, no doubt. But only the most stupid would have argued that the Packers should have released Walker, Green, etc. to make enough room for 49 million dollars to keep two guards. I think you will see a fairly radical shift coming soon, like Tauscher to guard and Barry at tackle, perhaps Ruegemer to left guard. If you look at the numbers from Sunday, the offense did better than the Browns. Brett played better this week.

    Ted Thompson made the calculated decision...based on the fact that he has a five year contract...to rebuild his first year. Faced next year with a large number of veteran contracts up for renewal, look for another year of change. You will see a much stronger team(barring nasty injuries) by the end of this year. The team needs to find two, maybe three defensive linemen.

    Now we will see if the 'fans' will hang in there, or simply slather at the mouth about firing everybody which isn't going to do anything THIS YEAR.

    How about a new coach for next year with a bunch of rookies and first year players? Think they will win anymore?

    It's time to sit tight and ride out the storm. Better days are coming if we don't think that(figuratively) cutting pieces off our body and eating it will make your stronger.
  2. ORRELSE
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    ORRELSE Cheesehead

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    Ahhh...refreshing.

    Well said net. My favorite part was your comment about a new coach with a bunch of young players. How would we do then?

    This team has problems, but I think the part that everyone was so worried about (defense) is actually playing decent. We've got a few holes to fill but TT is plugging them. Next year he'll fill a few more.

    The offense has taken a few more knocks to the chin with losing Walker and now maybe Bubba, but its even more reason to make this team a power running team again. Sherman got it right in 2003. Walker emerged in 2004 and made everyone think we could be a lethal air attack when we should have stayed on the ground.
  3. IPBprez
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    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Let's just hope Sherman doesn't make TT "rue the day" with re-signing him to that new Contract. Because right now... it looks embarrassingly like he's become the new Antonio Freeman, or Darren Sharper.. (I got my cash, now relax...)

    I figure Sherman (in his heart) really wants this to be a winning team - but for all his wishes, his efforts always seem to be jaded with the wrong kind of loyalty to both players and certain assistant coaches...

    I certainly wish it wouldn't take 4 or 5 games into the Season before he understands something else should be tried... Mikey's legacy is erasing the Lambeau mystique at this point.
  4. Odysseus
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    Odysseus Cheesehead

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    Insightful comments as usual, Net.

    What are your feelings about our young CB'S?

    Do you think Carroll or Thomas are in the long range plans or will we have to look elsewhere?
  5. jdlax
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    jdlax Cheesehead

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    I agree with ORRELSE. I understand that with, say, a 2 score deficit, you have to pass the ball more, but it seems like the Pack are abandonning the run when down only 1 score. Even more than the Superbowl offence, the offence I enjoyed most in Green Bay was in 2003, when I knew what was coming, the TV announcers knew what was coming, 80, 000 people in the stadium knew what was coming, the opposing coaches knew what was coming, the 11 defenders knew what was coming...and they still pounded the ball in along the ground and moved the chains over and over again.
  6. ORRELSE
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    ORRELSE Cheesehead

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    Oh that was beautiful. I totally agree. Use the U-71 package and beat the defense down until they can't stop it. Use Favre for a key 3rd and 6 conversion ONLY when you absolutely need it.

    BTW, NICE avatar JD. :D
  7. jdlax
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    jdlax Cheesehead

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    Thanks. On one hand it seems so obvious that they should be running it like they used to. On the other hand, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not completely incompetent, and might know what they're doing. I don't know.
  8. HatestheEagles084
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    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    we've gotta get Whitticker to stop false starting, so we have more running situations

    something else i notice with the new guards, it's damn hard for them to pull and get to the outside, and ahman really cant use his speed to get around corners if he doesnt have blockers.

    and if all else fails, pound najeh davenport, i'd really be interested to see what happens if he'd be a #1 back, he is hard to bring down, i want to see us get on top of tampa next week and just pound najeh into the line, wear their defense down...

    one more thing, keep ahman green in the game on 3rd down, he can pick up some yardage and i'm not too confident that tony fisher can.
  9. P@ck66
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    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Ah net..

    Ever the Sherman apologist....if you had your way, he would have been signed to a five year contract...no matter what happens this year or the next...

    Retool and Rebuild you say?..i say start from the top down...and get rid of the dead weight at the top--the meathead coaches who try to fit a round peg into a square hole...and don't know how to use the talent that they have...that's Sherman and Rossley, if you don't know...

    Keep Bates..this way you don't have all new coaches...

    A new head coach with a bunch of rookies you say?

    Sounds damn good to me..because anything would be better than this fool Sherman that you are so in love with....

    Keep fiddlin' net...because Green Bay is burning....
  10. DePack
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    DePack Cheesehead

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    Yea Pack66.....net's rational way of thinking and constant optimism is friggin' annoying as hell. I would respect him much more if he constantly whined, bitched and called for Sherman's firing on every post.

    BTW...comments like "Green Bay is burning" and the joy you seem to have after a loss shows that you may really just be a flamer from another team. To be honest I always thought you were a great Packer fan but after the first couple weeks, I wonder. I got no problem with someone being negative or pointing out faults but you seem to relish in the wake of a Packer loss. Makes you wonder.
  11. P@ck66
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    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    DePack..DePack..DePack...

    Understand this:

    Love the Green BAy Packers Football team..
    Hate Mike Sherman and Tom Rossley and what they are doing to it!

    I do not "relish" a Packer loss..but rather feel that the ROOT of the problem has ALL ALONG been Mike Sherman and his ineptitude..and the sooner the Green Bay Packers are done with him.(and Rossley)..the sooner this team can move on and once again resume the march to greatness....I was hoping that this would occur during Favre's tenure..but alas, it does not seem that even his talents can pull them through this season....(the last legitimate shot was against the Eagles two years ago...and we all know how Sherman "f*****" that one up..!)

    It will NEVER HAPPEN with Mike Sherman at the helm..NEVER...He simply does not have what it takes to be a head coach in the NFL...'

    And I was simply referring to NET's consistency of being like the Emperor NERO...

    "Fiddling while Rome burns"...
  12. Greg C.
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    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    net: At the beginning of last season, you were saying exactly the same thing I was: that this was the year Sherman needed to take the team to the next level or it was time for him to go. Sherman failed to do that, in a big way, but you backed off. Why? What did Sherman show you last year that made you think he has a bright future in Green Bay? I will grant you that the comeback from a 1-4 record was good, but then they got humiliated at home by an 8-8 team in the playoffs. That is not my idea of taking the team to the next level.

    I pretty much agree with you on your assessment of the team. They are young and are rebuilding and they should improve as the season goes on, but probably not enough to make the playoffs. I also agree that it would've been too expensive to hang onto Wahle or Rivera.

    I disagree with one statement you made about the game, however. You say that if you look at the numbers the offense did better than the Browns. Technically this is true, but it's meaningless. If you watched the game, you know that the Packer offense was thoroughly outplayed by the Browns, then fattened up their stats with two late drives against a prevent defense.
  13. NCPackerfan
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    NCPackerfan Cheesehead

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    The Browns "fattened" up their stats on two plays.
  14. packedhouse01
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    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    Net I do hope the defense will get better as the year goes on, I would say the same thing about our guards on offense. But here is the problem as I see it. It just looks to me that this is a team that has worn of it's head coach. You can't win even against bad teams when you play this flat. Mistakes come as the result of bad practices. I've seen this team practice and they are a far cry from what I used to see when Holmgren was here. Now I'm not a strong proponent of Holmgren, but I'm telling you this is a team in disarray and they don't believe in themselves. That's a much bigger issue than a lack of talent, although the talent was provided by GM Sherman.
  15. DePack
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    DePack Cheesehead

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    "It will NEVER happen with Sherman at the helm...NEVER..."

    Yet you said their "last legitimate chance was against the Eagles two years ago..." Wasn't that a Mike Sherman coached team? Give me a legitimate chance to win every year and I'll be happy.

    Oh and I'm sure the rest of the NFL fans can sympathize with you. After all you have had to wait 2 whole years since your "last legitimate chance to win it all".

    You know you're one of my favorite posters but man maybe you are just a tad bit spoiled.
  16. Chamuko
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    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    I dont know, I dont like to see Packer backers fighting like we are on this issue, as far as I can see Mr. Sherman has got a lot of chances to make his way to a SuperBowl and he hasn`t, I agree with 66 in most of his isuues, BUT DEPACK I REALLY FELT SORRY AND SAD YESTERDAY, my kid has his Packer Jersey on him and even when he is only 3 years old he felt that his dad was upset because something was going wrong with the game.. Today when I listened to Shermans press conference only made me fell worst this guy has no fire at all so in Lombardi´s own words "If you are not fired with passion you will be fired with passion", so I think that Mr. Sherman, whom I personally like a lot as a very nice person and a humble human being, will be fired with passion unless he changes his attitude and begin to show a lot of this FIRE..

    I really hope, I beg God that Sherman changes and makes me eat my words, one at a time, I will apologize to Mr. Sherman in this forum and will send him a letter to his Packer office..
  17. IPBprez
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    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Here, here... a good philosphy for living! One many Packer fans seem to have forgotten... Here's a few more....

    Quotes: Intensity

    "There's only one way to succeed in anything, and that is to give it everything. I do, and I demand that my players do."

    "Mental toughness is essential to success."

    "You never win a game unless you beat the guy in front of you. The score on the board doesn't mean a thing. That's for the fans. You've got to win the war with the man in front of you. You've got to get your man."
    Quotes: Leadership

    "Leadership rests not only upon ability, not only upon capacity; having the capacity to lead is not enough. The leader must be willing to use it. His leadership is then based on truth and character. There must be truth in the purpose and will power in the character."

    "Leadership is based on a spiritual quality; the power to inspire, the power to inspire others to follow."

    "Having the capacity to lead is not enough. The leader must be willing to use it."

    "A leader must identify himself with the group, must back up the group, even at the risk of displeasing superiors. He must believe that the group wants from him a sense of approval. If this feeling prevails, production, discipline, morale will be high, and in return, you can demand the cooperation to promote the goals of the company."

    "Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile."
  18. HatestheEagles084
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    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    i'm not getting any stationery ready yet...

    we can spend post after post, hour after hour talking about motivation, this team's inner chi, whatever psychological crap you wanna bring up...play calling, personell, critical, game changing decisions, tom rossley, all that junk...

    we're 0-2...tampa bay, new orleans, pittsburgh, minnesota, detroit, chicago, seattle at home...carolina, minnesota, cincinnati, atlanta, philly, chicago, baltimore on the road

    especially on the road there are a lot of teams who i think we will be disitinct underdogs to...we lost to cleveland and detroit, two of the most winable games on our schedule...something tells me its gonna take more to pull this season out...
  19. ArizonaPackerFan
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    I too would like to see Tauscher at RG and Barry at RT. Will Whitticker is hurting us, but I can't blame the guy too much though because he's a 7th round rookie basically being thrown to the wolves. In time he might get better and become a good lineman, but the big question is will it be too late when he does?

    I'd like to see them put their 5 best linemen on the field, and see if the results improve. That's why I'd like to see Tauscher moved to RG and Barry start at RT. I know Tauscher won't like it, but I still think that gives us our best chance. I'm not sure if the Packers will do that though. My guess would be they start Ruegemer before moving Tauscher.
  20. IPBprez
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    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    With Flanagan not being 100% still..... I keep wondering why Scott Wells isn't gettin' any time on the field to give him a rest.... Anyone?
  21. rmayer32
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    rmayer32 Cheesehead

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    Been wondering about that one myself..
  22. net
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    net Cheesehead

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    Couple of responses: regarding the corners: Al Harris still can bring it.
    Joey Thomas has played little over 2 seasons and really is a rookie. Carroll has played more, but is a fundamental meathead. It's grin and bear it as both are going to play either as a "starter" or "nickel back" which plays nearly as much. One plays head on the #2 receiver from the other team, the other plays the #3. Bottom line is both are bad, right now, but Carroll's experience leans in his favor. But Thomas' size leans in his favor against taller receivers. Pick 'em.

    Greg: What many folks on all Packer boards lack(based on my 45years following the team) is league-wide perspective on problems. The Vikings and Ravens had been picked by some to be in the Super Bowl. Both are 0-2, same as the Packers. I don't think Brian Billick became an idiot overnight(Tice always was an idiot but had good coordinators). Personnel makes more of a difference than coaching. Example: Mike Holmgren. He's the same guy that took Green Bay to two Super Bowls, yet hasn't come close in Seattle. Did he forget how to coach? No, he has poorer players to work with.
    Example: Joe Gibbs. Is he now a doddering idiot after dominating the league before? No, he has fewer good players.
    Example: Bill Parcells. Ditto, plus he doesn't have Bellichick as coach.

    Why did Bellichick bomb badly in Cleveland but now is called the new Lombardi? Players.

    Mike Sherman the GM left Mike Sherman the coach with the cupboards increasingly bare. Regardless of what the 'negativists' like PackIt say(he really wants the Packers to lose so he can be right) Sherman has won a majoritiy of his tenure here. The Bears have been up and down, the Vikings up and down, ditto the Lions...the Packers continued to win. In my lifetime, I can't remember a string of winning like it(dating back to Holmgren). Yet the fans are spoiled by the success. It isn't unlike the Yankees syndrome: they've won so much the fans think they're ENTITLED to victories. No victories....fire the coach. Sherman hasn't changed. What has changed is the personnel, mainly the defense.
    My largest criticism to date is I think they farted around experimenting with people, that they never got the full team into a rhythm during the pre-season. By the time it happens, it could be too late. (The only saving grace is the North division teams are also struggling).
    Enter Ted Thompson. Ted knows even with Favre, there aren't enough "blue"(top level) players to make this team a winner, so he decided to 'punt' his first season and begin the housecleaning. Keep in mind, if Sherman was the GM, the defense would look much differently, and I suspect he would have gotten rid of a few players to keep Rivera. But is that in the best long-term health of the team? No.
    Sherman has been handed a bunch of rookies and fading veterans. One of the 'blues'-Walker- is gone. There are no 'blues' on defense.
    Contrast the Super Bowl defensive line with this year's sorry unit(and that includes Kampman).

    People make the difference and the team doesn't have enough good players to make the difference.

    I agree with the change at GM, the changes, and don't like the losses. But a couple of years from now(regardless of who is coaching) we will be smiling.
  23. IPBprez
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    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    One gets more frustrated by the perception of finally getting there ... only to consistently have it all yanked away.. leaving behind a winning season based only on a percentage value... Fans of any Team would tire of this after awhile... I've seen some pretty critical commentary by some super religious Steeler fans... trust me...

    Either go for it... totally.. or stop and regroup and be prepped the right way the next time around... getting it halfway right just doesn't get it.
  24. Odysseus
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    Odysseus Cheesehead

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    No Packer fan can be looking forward to the day Favre retires. However, when that day comes, I will be very interested in his comments about the Packer coaching and offensive philosophy he has seen and been subjected to throughout his career. He may refuse to comment at all but, if he chooses to talk, I don't believe he will be complimentary of the offensive coordinators or the coaching in general at the close of his career.
  25. TOPackerFan
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    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    He's a coach's kid. He won't say anything derogatory about any of the guys he's played for.

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