Packers Plan To Be Big Spenders

[TJV]

Relying 100% on the draft, and not drafting well, and well, you see things like this apparently.

Because I am sick of our team having THE WORST luck with injuries, not just this year but the past 3 years. ... Everyone thinks the Niners drafting is so great compared to ours, but it makes a difference when they stay healthy -magically- like yours do, while ours tear ACLs, break legs, etc.. ... I'm just tired of the injuries. If they were 100% flip-flopped, the Packers would be a 8 point favorite (in the wildcard game against the 49ers).

Is it relying "100% on the draft" the problem or is it injuries to the players drafted by the Packers the problem? Can't have it both ways.

 

[AmishMafia]

I try to be nice...I could reference brick walls...but I do try to be nice most of the time.

Explain how replacing over 30 out of 53 players...in one year...does not involve "talent assembly"?

Actually, the number late in 2013 was 32 replacements compared to the final game roster from 2012.

AHA! You fell into my clever trap!

Their entire defense of starters was comprised of draft picks, except marginal player CB Sean Smith. Their entire offensive line were draft picks. All their biggest playmakers were draft picks, excepting QB Smith who was selected by Andy Reid, not Dorsey. Dorsey's only Draft Pick that started was Fisher. And Dorsey was only lucky that Fisher somehow dropped to him with the 1st overall pick. Also, despite drafting 1st overall, and having a mediocre team the season before, only 1 draft pick was able to start. Despite drafting late and having a more talented roster, TT for example, was able to gain 3 starters from the draft. A far superior effort.

Game, set, and match. And you thought you were being nice.

 

[OCBP]

Is it relying "100% on the draft" the problem or is it injuries to the players drafted by the Packers the problem? Can't have it both ways.

GB has one playmaker on Defense. You can claim injuries. I ask you this--What TT drafted injured player from this season has the league declared a difference maker?

The Offense was fine, even with the injuries, until Rodgers went down. I might even say, Flynn did a respectable job given the circumstances. As we know the QB backup debacle falls on TT.

Opposing teams salavate at playing the GB's Defense, particularly, with Rodgers down. #12 has the ability to manage the clock and manage time of possession. He makes the entire team, including the Defense better.

TT's Defense and Special Teams personnel is not competitive against better offensive teams. Plus he loves the "youngest team" moniker that leaves you with no leaders on the field and in the locker room. Letting go Woodson a prime example.

Lack of leadership and no Rodgers makes this team .500 at best. The system has failed with or without injuries. Football is a collision sport, dancing is a contact sport. Injuries happen.

 

[TJV]

The system has failed with or without injuries. Football is a collision sport, dancing is a contact sport. Injuries happen.

First, you post as if Thompson hasn't built a team that has won a title and second, your argument about injuries is with frankrizzo, not me.

 

[HardRightEdge]

AHA! You fell into my clever trap!

Their entire defense of starters was comprised of draft picks, except marginal player CB Sean Smith. Their entire offensive line were draft picks. All their biggest playmakers were draft picks, excepting QB Smith who was selected by Andy Reid, not Dorsey. Dorsey's only Draft Pick that started was Fisher. And Dorsey was only lucky that Fisher somehow dropped to him with the 1st overall pick. Also, despite drafting 1st overall, and having a mediocre team the season before, only 1 draft pick was able to start. Despite drafting late and having a more talented roster, TT for example, was able to gain 3 starters from the draft. A far superior effort.

Game, set, and match. And you thought you were being nice.

32 out 53 speaks for itself. There's no "trap" there. You remain, my friend, a brick wall.

I'm still waiting to hear from you about where we'll be getting those All-Pro linebackers to support our undersized line.

Oh, wait, people who actually know something about football figure the line will not be quite so small after all: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft

 

[FrankRizzo]

"Our depth at WR has gone down."

I have no clue how you could think this. I think this is one of the best groups we have had in years.

I have no clue how you could think to ask this.

Look, I was one of the first to say I think this Jarrett Boykin guy is pretty good.
But what we have now, considering some of you are saying let James Jones go, PALES IN COMPARSISON to what we had in 2011.

How soon we forget.

If Jones goes, as a few here say let him go, we only will have 2 of these 6 weapons left.
Boykin is the only one besides them who has done anything.

How could you even argue the statement "our depth has gone down" there?
I include Finley, but even if you don't, it's gone down. Jennings was our best one, his final year here.
Remove him, remove Driver, remove Jones, and Jermichael?
And add Boykin and Brandon Bostick?

Bottom line from me is this: James Jones is a MUST KEEP. He won't break the bank.

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[AmishMafia]

32 out 53 speaks for itself. There's no "trap" there. You remain, my friend, a brick wall.

I'm still waiting to hear from you about where we'll be getting those All-Pro linebackers to support our undersized line.

Oh, wait, people who actually know something about football figure the line will not be quite so small after all: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft

So hen brings in 32 players and only 3 or so help? That is extremely poor ratio. Change for changes sake is not necessarily a good thing. No sense in arguing with the whole Dorsey -can-do-no-wrong crowd. I mean, why should he get a free pass and not be held accountable. I guess for some mediocrity is acceptable, but not for me.


Ps: I'm not sure if I will ever get tired of this.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

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It's almost to insane to look back and remember how much talent was on that offense. That picture legitimately has seven past, present and future Pro Bowl players.

It also reminds me about how much I love Donald Driver. Seeing that big smile after he'd catch a ball made me smile.

PS. James Jones looks like Humpty Hump.

 

[HardRightEdge]

So hen brings in 32 players and only 3 or so help? That is extremely poor ratio. Change for changes sake is not necessarily a good thing. No sense in arguing with the whole Dorsey -can-do-no-wrong crowd. I mean, why should he get a free pass and not be held accountable. I guess for some mediocrity is acceptable, but not for me.


Ps: I'm not sure if I will ever get tired of this.

I accept none of that.

The point is not whether Dorsey "can do no wrong". I was not even aware there was a "crowd".

The point is whether perhaps the emperor has no clothes in Green Bay. The guys who left have done good things without TT. TT has not proven he can do good things without them.

You may never get tired of this, but I think there will come a day in the not so distant future you will tire of Ted Thompson.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

And according to Andrew Brandt John Schneider was the guy responsible for signing Woodson and Pickett and had to convince TT to finally agree with the moves.

Not that I disbelieve you but is there a link to that? I only ask because if I ever use that information I want to be sure I can back it up if asked.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

AHA! You fell into my clever trap!

Their entire defense of starters was comprised of draft picks, except marginal player CB Sean Smith. Their entire offensive line were draft picks. All their biggest playmakers were draft picks, excepting QB Smith who was selected by Andy Reid, not Dorsey. Dorsey's only Draft Pick that started was Fisher. And Dorsey was only lucky that Fisher somehow dropped to him with the 1st overall pick. Also, despite drafting 1st overall, and having a mediocre team the season before, only 1 draft pick was able to start. Despite drafting late and having a more talented roster, TT for example, was able to gain 3 starters from the draft. A far superior effort.

Game, set, and match. And you thought you were being nice.

Can we please ask admit that the Chiefs were a total illusion? They weren't that good, they were just extremely lucky. They faced what, FIVE backup quarterbacks making their FIRST starts during the season.

 

[FrankRizzo]

It's almost to insane to look back and remember how much talent was on that offense. That picture legitimately has seven past, present and future Pro Bowl players.

But NOMOFO thought I was crazy or had no clue when I said our receiving depth has gone down.

I can't tell if he was serious or not saying that.....

 

[ivo610]

Can we please ask admit that the Chiefs were a total illusion? They weren't that good, they were just extremely lucky. They faced what, FIVE backup quarterbacks making their FIRST starts during the season.

Defense was legit, Charles is elite, and you can get places with a QB who doesn't turn over the ball often.

 

[Carl]

About sums it up. TT's system relies on drafting well and finding scrap heap UFA's. If these decisions are not made properly the system fails.

TT has had two great QB's during his tenure. He gets credit for drafting Rodgers. However, as stated above, when the QB goes down, this team, TT's team is no better than .500.

I bet every team in the league plays sub .500 football while playing a third string QB.

A good example is the Texans. They seemed to have a Super Bowl quality roster, but their QB play goes down the tubes and so does their season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Their entire defense of starters was comprised of draft picks, except marginal player CB Sean Smith. Their entire offensive line were draft picks. All their biggest playmakers were draft picks, excepting QB Smith who was selected by Andy Reid, not Dorsey. Dorsey's only Draft Pick that started was Fisher. And Dorsey was only lucky that Fisher somehow dropped to him with the 1st overall pick. Also, despite drafting 1st overall, and having a mediocre team the season before, only 1 draft pick was able to start. Despite drafting late and having a more talented roster, TT for example, was able to gain 3 starters from the draft. A far superior effort.

You're so used to TT's draft and develop system that you don't realize free agency and trades are a way to bring in talent as well.

While it's true only one of the Chiefs draft picks started during the 2013 season, Dorsey signed or traded for 13 veterans that previously played for other teams, who combined for 114 starts. How many did TT get once again???

Sean Smith, the guy you called a marginal player, started 15 out of 16 games at CB (the only exception being the regular season finale when the Chiefs rested their starters), not playing only 42 snaps during that span.

In the playoff game the Chiefs started eight guys that were signed or traded for by Dorsey in the offseason, three of them on defense.

Get your facts straight before you declare yourself a winner.

Just out of curiosity, who was the third starter out of our 2013 rookie class aside of Bakhtiari and Lacy???

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not that I disbelieve you but is there a link to that? I only ask because if I ever use that information I want to be sure I can back it up if asked.

Here's an article from Brandt where he writes about the Woodson signing:

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/29/super-bowl-48-seahawks-success/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But NOMOFO thought I was crazy or had no clue when I said our receiving depth has gone down.

I can't tell if he was serious or not saying that.....

He's serious all the time, he just doesn't have a clue.

 

[AmishMafia]

You're so used to TT's draft and develop system that you don't realize free agency and trades are a way to bring in talent as well.

While it's true only one of the Chiefs draft picks started during the 2013 season, Dorsey signed or traded for 13 veterans that previously played for other teams, who combined for 114 starts. How many did TT get once again???

I understand the ways to bring in NFL talent. There are many more FA failure stories than there are success stories. If there were no salary cap, then FA acquisition would be a great alternative. Owners push for FA signings for one reason, to make a splash. They overspend for players to get headlines and excitement for their team so they can sell tickets - not to improve their team. Packers don't have this problem, but the market is skewed for this reason. There has been a shift in the FA market recently.

Furthermore, bringing in Vets takes snaps away from the kids and impedes their development. You never know exactly what you are getting in the locker room either. Even your own stars may be looking at these contracts the FAs are signing and figuring they should be getting more as well. There are some positives about FAs and there are some serious negatives.

Sean Smith, the guy you called a marginal player, started 15 out of 16 games at CB (the only exception being the regular season finale when the Chiefs rested their starters), not playing only 42 snaps during that span.

Are you saying that the number of snaps in a year/starts is a way to determine the quality of a player? Are you going to tell me then, using this logic, that our Safety Burnett is good?

In the playoff game the Chiefs started eight guys that were signed or traded for by Dorsey in the offseason, three of them on defense.

Get your facts straight before you declare yourself a winner.

Just out of curiosity, who was the third starter out of our 2013 rookie class aside of Bakhtiari and Lacy???

Hyde. He played a lot of snaps, officially started a few games but was on the field as much as many starters.

I got my data here:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2013_roster.htm

We were talking about the season and not one particular game.

If you read through the starters, anyone who was a significant contributer was a draft pick. Again, the entire defense sans Smith including Hali, Poe, Jackson, Berry, Flowers and Derrick Johnson were all picks prior to Dorsey. Offensive draft picks - pre Dorsey - include the entire line, Jamaal Charles, and Dwayne Bowe. To say that the acquisition of a couple of marginal player turned the Chiefs around is ridiculous. Unless you think Donny Avery, Anthony Fassano, and Anthony Sherman are uber studs, the offense is comprised primarily of draft picks. Again, the QB was big for them. But if you recall, Reid's first act as HC was to try out 5-6 QBs. He and his staff selected Smith and Dorsey then traded for him. For whatever reason, in my office of 40 guys, 5 of them happen to be big Chief fans. I hear about their season and activities all year long.

The majority of the turn around can only be attributed to coaching, Andy Reid did an amazing job.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hyde. He played a lot of snaps, officially started a few games but was on the field as much as many starters.

We were talking about the season and not one particular game.

Nine of the guys Dorsey brought in via free agency and trade played more snaps than Hyde. Eleven started more games than Hyde.

If you read through the starters, anyone who was a significant contributer was a draft pick. Again, the entire defense sans Smith including Hali, Poe, Jackson, Berry, Flowers and Derrick Johnson were all picks prior to Dorsey. Offensive draft picks - pre Dorsey - include the entire line, Jamaal Charles, and Dwayne Bowe. To say that the acquisition of a couple of marginal player turned the Chiefs around is ridiculous. Unless you think Donny Avery, Anthony Fassano, and Anthony Sherman are uber studs, the offense is comprised primarily of draft picks.

Geoff Schwartz was actually their best OL, Anthony Sherman is a great run blocker for Charles, Mike DeVito was one of their best defensive players while Akeem Jordan had a decent year as well. Donnie Avery was their #2 WR and both TEs that started a game for the Chiefs were brought in by Dorsey.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Are you saying that the number of snaps in a year/starts is a way to determine the quality of a player? Are you going to tell me then, using this logic, that our Safety Burnett is good?

He played nearly every snap for one of the best defenses in football (5th in points allowed, I don't care that much about total yards), so he contributed to their success. In addition he was a pretty good cover corner as well, allowing completions on 50% of the time he was targeted (8th best in the league with 50 or more targets).

 

[AmishMafia]

Nine of the guys Dorsey brought in via free agency and trade played more snaps than Hyde. Eleven started more games than Hyde.

Geoff Schwartz was actually their best OL, Anthony Sherman is a great run blocker for Charles, Mike DeVito was one of their best defensive players while Akeem Jordan had a decent year as well. Donnie Avery was their #2 WR and both TEs that started a game for the Chiefs were brought in by Dorsey.

Schwartz didn't even win the starting job till week 8. He wasn't a UFA anyway, he was a street FA having been cut from 2 teams in 2 years. If you want to call him their best OL, have at it.

I don't care what # Avery is. He is a below average NFL WR. I wouldn't trade our #5, Miles White, for him.

Mike DeVito as one of their best defensive players is a joke. Jordan is solid. If they were Packers they would be considered busts - zero sacks between the 2.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Schwartz didn't even win the starting job till week 8. He wasn't a UFA anyway, he was a street FA having been cut from 2 teams in 2 years. If you want to call him their best OL, have at it.

I don't care what # Avery is. He is a below average NFL WR. I wouldn't trade our #5, Miles White, for him.

Mike DeVito as one of their best defensive players is a joke. Jordan is solid. If they were Packers they would be considered busts - zero sacks between the 2.

DeVito is one of the best DL in the entire league playing the run, he's not there to rush the passer. Same with Akeem Jordan, who was the best ILB in the league in coverage though last year.

I agree with Avery being a below average WR, but he was still the Chiefs 2nd best.

BTW Schwartz wasn't cut by either team, both times his contract expired and he signed as an UFA with another team.

 

[TJV]

I just woke up from a dream nightmare that I was a Kansas City Chiefs fan and was posting on one of their fan boards. Whew, scary! … Seriously, can we all agree there is more than one way to build a championship team? IMO the evidence shows the advantage of Thompson’s way is to control the cap while staying in contention for several seasons consecutively. But that does not mean it’s the only way to have success; that a GM with a different MO can’t have success.

Back to the title of the thread: I am seeing the premise of it gain a wider acceptance in the press than I initially expected. It’s one thing for Ian Rapoport to report it but I’m seeing it mentioned on jsonline and in the most recent Sidelines show, one of the panelist said something like, ‘they don’t have any choice’ but to be active in free agency. While I hope they do sign at least one significant UFA, I don’t think they have to. They could spend all their cap excess on their own free agents and by extending Nelson and Cobb. As I’ve said, I don’t want that to happen, paying Raji an $8M/season deal would be a mistake IMO, but they don’t have to sign a single UFA to use up their cap excess.

And according to Andrew Brandt John Schneider was the guy responsible for signing Woodson and Pickett and had to convince TT to finally agree with the moves.

Here's an article from Brandt where he writes about the Woodson signing:http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/29/super-bowl-48-seahawks-success/

I don’t know what all went on inside 1265 during the 2006 off season, but the linked article doesn’t mention Thompson or Pickett. It only says the author, Brandt, raised a red flag about Woodson – the Raiders didn’t want him – and Schneider spear-headed his acquisition. One thing we can be certain of is Thompson had the final say and agreed to all the personnel moves since 2005.

IMO we see this type of thing raised by those who dislike/hate Thompson. They downplay the credit he deserves for drafting Rodgers and here any successful UFA signing. There is no question what Thompson’s MO is and even if he does sign a significant UFA or two, I don’t think that will mean a sea change for him. But particularly Packers fans should give him credit where credit is due.

 

[Pugger]

About sums it up. TT's system relies on drafting well and finding scrap heap UFA's. If these decisions are not made properly the system fails.

TT has had two great QB's during his tenure. He gets credit for drafting Rodgers. However, as stated above, when the QB goes down, this team, TT's team is no better than .500.

And Belichick's team right now would be no better than .500 if Brady goes down and some think he's the best in the business.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While I hope they do sign at least one significant UFA, I don’t think they have to. They could spend all their cap excess on their own free agents and by extending Nelson and Cobb. As I’ve said, I don’t want that to happen, paying Raji an $8M/season deal would be a mistake IMO, but they don’t have to sign a single UFA to use up their cap excess.

That's absoluty correct, I'm not sure the defense would be improved significantly this way though.

I don’t know what all went on inside 1265 during the 2006 off season, but the linked article doesn’t mention Thompson or Pickett.

I know it doesn't mention TT or Pickett or the trade Schneider had worked out for Randy Moss in 2007 which actually never happened. As I've said Jason Wilde mentioned it on Green and Gold, maybe he'll senf me a link via Twitter.