Packers Hire Firm To Study Injuries

[El Guapo]

I don't see this move as a silver bullet solution, but there seems to be many teams that already use these folks. It would be interesting to have data about how injuries have decreased after using this firm. I'm not holding out hope that this will bring about massive improvements, but every little bit helps.

http://lombardiave.com/214/04/14/green-bay-packers-hire-firm-study-injuries/

Green Bay Packers head coach Mike McCarthy recently said that he’s had just two healthy teams since he’s been the head coach – the 13-3 2007 and 15-1 2011 teams....

...waiting for FrankRizzo to chime in

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

any step in solving the PROBLEM is a step in the right direction.

 

[TJV]

Good news. I like it better - as a first step - than just firing the current staff and hiring a new one, although if progress isn't made again, that may be next.

 

[7thFloorRA]

That is a huge improvement from MM blaming the lack of off season workouts due to the CBA. I get the impression that this group will be evaluating Lovat's program throughout the off season. Thank you.

 

[NOMOFO]

Thank God. This has to be more than just endless bad luck IMO.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I saw a commercial the other day where IBM was touting what appears to be a similar data-driven rugby injury prevention program and immediately thought of the Packers. It's probably this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-17867961

It may not work, but it beats finger-crossing and guess work.

On the other hand, I have a hard time seeing how a comprehensive analysis can be done without knowing what the players are ingesting and injecting, and the NFLPA will have none of that.

 

[El Guapo]

I have a hard time seeing how a comprehensive analysis can be done without knowing what the players are ingesting and injecting, and the NFLPA will have none of that.

You hit it on the nose. Physiology and many other factors goes into injuries than just the team's weightlifting and training programs. You can do all of the proper training and preventative measures but will never succeed if some guys eat nothing but Butterburgers seven days a week followed by nights of drinking. No training staff can overcome the personal will, or lack thereof, of some players.

 

[AmishMafia]

On the other hand, I have a hard time seeing how a comprehensive analysis can be done without knowing what the players are ingesting and injecting, and the NFLPA will have none of that.

If PED use is prevalent on the Packer defense, I would have to say the Packer pharmacist is completely incompetent or the talent level is even lower than anyone thought.

 

[Poppa San]

You hit it on the nose. Physiology and many other factors goes into injuries than just the team's weightlifting and training programs. You can do all of the proper training and preventative measures but will never succeed if some guys eat nothing but Butterburgers seven days a week followed by nights of drinking. No training staff can overcome the personal will, or lack thereof, of some players.

The problem I have with this statement is, of the 2500+ NFL caliber athletes that will be in someone's camp next summer, how do the Packers wind up with a few more than average that care less for their bodies and careers? The players throughout the league, I would think, on average have similar attitude and training regimen. The Packers just seem to have a tendency for less durability or more bad luck.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If PED use is prevalent on the Packer defense, I would have to say the Packer pharmacist is completely incompetent or the talent level is even lower than anyone thought.

History shows if there is no testing regime for a performance enhancing drug, it will be in wide use. For many participants in many sports, the difference between using and not is the difference between making 6 or 7 figure salaries and driving a truck. I'd not be surprised if over 50% of NFL players use HGH or some other untested BALCO-like variant.

I couldn't say whether Packer players are above or below the league average in usage, but to think the Packers are in some way "clean" is naive.

How these enhancements and the associated low BMI numbers might result in higher injury frequency is a question that cannot be investigated because usage is a guarded secret.

I don't think it an unreasonable hypothesis that there might be some players who weigh, lift, hit beyond the natural capacity of their frames and personal biology or that there is a point where being too lean might be a cause of injury.

 

[El Guapo]

The players throughout the league, I would think, on average have similar attitude and training regimen. The Packers just seem to have a tendency for less durability or more bad luck.

The problem that I have with this statement is that it assumes that injuries and personal irresponsibility are evenly spread across the NFL. Some teams have a propensity to draft crime-prone players (Cincinnati, Minnesota, etc) and some have a propensity to draft injury-prone players. It's not intentional or even necessarily a flaw, it's more likely the luck of the draw that some teams have more and some have less. The NFL will never achieve their coveted league parity in this respect.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The problem that I have with this statement is that it assumes that injuries and personal irresponsibility are evenly spread across the NFL. Some teams have a propensity to draft crime-prone players (Cincinnati, Minnesota, etc) and some have a propensity to draft injury-prone players. It's not intentional or even necessarily a flaw, it's more likely the luck of the draw that some teams have more and some have less. The NFL will never achieve their coveted league parity in this respect.

It's surely luck of the draw in some cases. It might be environmental in some cases (training regimes, coaching practices, facilities). It might also be that a front office favors certain traits in players, traits that are not readily identifiable, that also lend themselves to more frequent injury. It bears study. I'm skeptical it will yield actionable conclusions but the effort should be made at some marginal cost.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe this will be part of the solution as well, especially with all the hamstring injuries:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...otential-with-yoga-b99290693z1-263048921.html

 

[Sanguine camper]

One bad season with injuries is poor luck. When it happens virtually every season then you have a systemic problem likely caused by multiple causes .

 

[Sanguine camper]

My high school football coach used to his players that injuries were part of the game but players could help prevent them by playing fast and aggressive. He said that if you were in constant forward motion your feet would be planted in the ground less and blows to the legs would cause fewer ancient and knee injuries. Any truth to that? It does seem the fast aggressive teams tend to have fewer injuries. It would be interesting to compare the injury rate between the Seahawks under Pete Carrol and Holmgren. The Holmgren teams were more finesse compared to the current team.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My high school football coach used to his players that injuries were part of the game but players could help prevent them by playing fast and aggressive. He said that if you were in constant forward motion your feet would be planted in the ground less and blows to the legs would cause fewer ancient and knee injuries. Any truth to that? It does seem the fast aggressive teams tend to have fewer injuries. It would be interesting to compare the injury rate between the Seahawks under Pete Carrol and Holmgren. The Holmgren teams were more finesse compared to the current team.

The only relevant statistic I was able to find about injuries is Football Outsiders adjusted games lost stat. Over the last four seasons the Packers finished in 30th, 16th, 32nd and 30th respectively while the Seahawks ended up in 24th and 27th in Carroll´s first two seasons and being ranked 4th and 12th in 2012 and 2013.

I don´t think there´s any correlation between playing aggressive and getting injured less, but keeping your feet moving at all time will result in fewer injuries, that´s for sure.

One bad season with injuries is poor luck. When it happens virtually every season then you have a systemic problem likely caused by multiple causes .

The Packers have had way too many injuries over the last four seasons to blame it all on bad luck.

 

[Zartan]

Having one or two seasons due to injury is bad luck. Having alot of injury fulled seasons is having poor training staff and workout routines.

Having only 2 healthy seasons has HC thats pretty bad...

 

[AKCheese]

There might be no team with the "average" number of injuries. There are some teams with an above average number of injuries and teams with less......... Add them up, divide by 32 and that's how you get the average. If any team some actually lands exactly on that number it's pretty much a fluke. There have been some years where we had a significantly higher number of injuries, last year, Sherman's last season. It's like climate change, only an idiot would deny it ( because the climate is ALWAYS changing). The question is, is human activity significantly contributing to it and can we minimize that? Same with injuries, is there something "we" are doing which is causing higher injury rates? If so how do "we" change that. Hard to imagine them hiring a consultant that won't come up with a few suggestions. Also hard to imagine that they'll come up with some silver bullet, or issue a report that says "we looked at your program and found it *****, you guys are really idiots". So, maybe an idea or two to make an improvement and then hope we have a little better luck this year.

 

[PikeBadger]

The only relevant statistic I was able to find about injuries is Football Outsiders adjusted games lost stat. Over the last four seasons the Packers finished in 30th, 16th, 32nd and 30th respectively while the Seahawks ended up in 24th and 27th in Carroll´s first two seasons and being ranked 4th and 12th in 2012 and 2013.

I don´t think there´s any correlation between playing aggressive and getting injured less, but keeping your feet moving at all time will result in fewer injuries, that´s for sure.



The Packers have had way too many injuries over the last four seasons to blame it all on bad luck.

Maybe timing has something to do with games lost stat as well as club policy to not bring players back from injury as quickly as other clubs. Bulaga lost the entire season. Cobb and Finley due to violent hits. Rodgers possibly due to his propensity to hang on to the ball longer than his peers. Packers staff and mgmt seem to take a longer view of things and are more patient. Play the regular season to make the playoffs and hopefully have a healthy playoff team. I think most teams view the next game as the end of the season and bring guys back before they are ready. The Packers seem to have a lot of confidence that the reserves can compete successfully. Dejuan Harris being an example. I was shocked that a guy could be yanked off a car lot and produce like he did.

All that being said, I could be totally wrong about all of this.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe timing has something to do with games lost stat as well as club policy to not bring players back from injury as quickly as other clubs. Bulaga lost the entire season. Cobb and Finley due to violent hits. Rodgers possibly due to his propensity to hang on to the ball longer than his peers. Packers staff and mgmt seem to take a longer view of things and are more patient. Play the regular season to make the playoffs and hopefully have a healthy playoff team. I think most teams view the next game as the end of the season and bring guys back before they are ready. The Packers seem to have a lot of confidence that the reserves can compete successfully. Dejuan Harris being an example. I was shocked that a guy could be yanked off a car lot and produce like he did.

All that being said, I could be totally wrong about all of this.

I think the Packers medical staff is more cautious than a lot of others in the NFL, which IMO is a good thing. I´d rather have one of our players sit out an extra game or two than risk long term injury because of coming back too soon.

 

[JBlood]

captain WIMM is right about the need for conservatism by the medical staff. But the hamstring epidemic on the Packers is alarming. Maybe the Yoga will help--it can't hurt.

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

Studying the injury problem is a good thing. What did their study find ? What changes will take place ? Is it a conditioning issue ? Is it a coaching issue ? Is it an equipment issue ( Training on the field /weight room ) ? Are they wondering in the dark without a flashlight or have they been able to focus on the large and the small problems ? We need healthy players, not management scratching their .......