Packers dead last in production from 1st-round pick since 2010

[Ace]

Nice that you pass judgement to a new poster immediately. Injuries are part if the game for every team in the NFL. As GB did when they recently won the Super Bowl.

My assessment is fact based not emotional. Bottom line is that TT needs to provide impact players every year in rounds 1 and 2. If free agency doesn't plug holes in the roster, the draft needs to provide a better batting average.

Please refrain from personal attacks.

Wasnt a personal attack just my opinion. I too am new to these boards my apologies if it came off that way. That being said I stand by what I said. Harrell is the only legitimate bust you cant argue that. You also cant argue injuries have played a huge part of why his 1st round picks havent been stellar. Also you state he needs impact players in rounds 1 and 2... maybe you need to go back and check who he has taken in the 2nd rounds.

Your assessment may not be based on emotion but it isnt based on fact either. Its a blanket statement that because every one of his 1st round picks havent been hall of famers to be that he hasnt been good in the 1st round. He drafted a hall of fame qb and the cornerstone to our defense in the 1st round.. but I guess some just assume thats easy to do.

 

[OCBP]

Wasnt a personal attack just my opinion. I too am new to these boards my apologies if it came off that way. That being said I stand by what I said. Harrell is the only legitimate bust you cant argue that. You also cant argue injuries have played a huge part of why his 1st round picks havent been stellar. Also you state he needs impact players in rounds 1 and 2... maybe you need to go back and check who he has taken in the 2nd rounds.

Your assessment may not be based on emotion but it isnt based on fact either. Its a blanket statement that because every one of his 1st round picks havent been hall of famers to be that he hasnt been good in the 1st round. He drafted a hall of fame qb and the cornerstone to our defense in the 1st round.. but I guess some just assume thats easy to do.

You stated that I am a TT hater. That is a personal attack. If my opinion of you is that you are an idiot, does that give me a blanket--I think not.

You miss the point. If you as an organization are going to limit, generally and recently, personnel transactions to the draft and undrafted FA, you better be successful.

He hasn't been good in the 1st round.

Apology accepted!

 

[Ace]

You stated that I am a TT hater. That is a personal attack. If my opinion of you is that you are an idiot, does that give me a blanket--I think not.

You miss the point. If you as an organization are going to limit, generally and recently, personnel transactions to the draft and undrafted FA, you better be successful.

He hasn't been good in the 1st round.

Apology accepted!

Name me a player other then Harrell, and not Datone or Perry, that have been legitimate busts. And again you stated rounds 1 AND 2, did you ever go look at round 2 picks?

 

[AmishMafia]

Name me a player other then Harrell, and not Datone or Perry, that have been legitimate busts. And again you stated rounds 1 AND 2, did you ever go look at round 2 picks?

Why is Harrell a bust? He got injured as a rookie. He tweaked his back while doing squats.


I think what is sometimes not understood about the draft is the aspect of risk/reward. Harrell was amazing in college. He was huge, powerful, athletic, a great leader, and tough. Somehow, ******** up his back, has turned him into a cream puff in the eyes of some Packer fans. A back injury can be very detrimental to a DL. You lose your power and quickness and your game is gone. Had we hit on him we would have had a perennial pro bowler collapsing pockets and really impacting our defense.


You can look at Tyrann Mathieu, Aquib Talib, Titus Young, Adrianne Peterson, etc. All of these guys had huge question marks. Peterson has been very healthy throughout his pro career (except 2 years ago) yet he was a much bigger health concern than Harrell. Mathieu shined last season despite smoking tons of weed and telling coaches to go F themselves. Has he reformed and come around and the Cardinals found a gem? So far, so good. How about Talib? How the hell this guy isn’t in prison already is beyond me. What is it, 3 suspected shootings now? And Titus Young, a great WR who dropped into the 2nd round but had Top 15 talent. Lions took a chance – he had a good rookie season, started to emerge in year 2, then he comes unglued. 3 arrests in one week – DWI, then trying to steal his car, while drunk, from the police impound lot. Then breaking and entering a week later. Lions took a risk, and loss. Cardinals took a risk, and seem to be winning.


All players have risk. You pick to the best of your ability and try to weigh the likelihood of injury/drama/criminal versus what the player could become. It is wrong to look back on it and second guess a decision. Had Peterson blown out his shoulder a few more times his first few years or Harrell never injures his back and has a HOF career for the Pack – did that change the circumstance of the decision at the time of selection? It’s the same decision.


As far as this ‘Richard Sherman proves the Seahawks are real smart’ idea – the pick before Sherman, Jaye Howard, played in 2 games as a rookie and then was cut. If they are so damn smart, why did they waste a pick ahead of Sherman on a bust? Why not take Sherman with that pick rather than risk someone else taking him?




As far as first 2 round busts by the Packers - Brian Brohm was a bust. Hyped as a potential top pick the season before, he did not have the mental makeup of a QB. Not sure what TT or the scouting staff saw there.

 

[OCBP]

Name me a player other then Harrell, and not Datone or Perry, that have been legitimate busts. And again you stated rounds 1 AND 2, did you ever go look at round 2 picks?

Very subjective. My opinion, I think Hawk, Raji and the OL selections have not been solid. Perry and Jones should be included. A #1 needs to play and contribute immediately. Please no injury discussion.

2nd round--Collins, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Lacy have been good as they should be at two. Murphy, Colledge, Jackson, Brohm, Lee, Neal and Worthy were/are marginal players. Collins--tragic situation. Hayward, we'll see. GB did miss his play making ability that surfaced in his rookie year. Keep in mind that the receivers have a multiplier associated with talent because they caught/catch passes from two HOFer's.

You tell me, outside of Rodgers--Huge, Matthews--Huge, are you completely satisfied with the #1 and #2 selections given the fact that TT doesn't supplement gaps in the roster with reasonable players.

Just askin'

 

[OCBP]

Why is Harrell a bust? He got injured as a rookie. He tweaked his back while doing squats.


I think what is sometimes not understood about the draft is the aspect of risk/reward. Harrell was amazing in college. He was huge, powerful, athletic, a great leader, and tough. Somehow, ******** up his back, has turned him into a cream puff in the eyes of some Packer fans. A back injury can be very detrimental to a DL. You lose your power and quickness and your game is gone. Had we hit on him we would have had a perennial pro bowler collapsing pockets and really impacting our defense.


You can look at Tyrann Mathieu, Aquib Talib, Titus Young, Adrianne Peterson, etc. All of these guys had huge question marks. Peterson has been very healthy throughout his pro career (except 2 years ago) yet he was a much bigger health concern than Harrell. Mathieu shined last season despite smoking tons of weed and telling coaches to go F themselves. Has he reformed and come around and the Cardinals found a gem? So far, so good. How about Talib? How the hell this guy isn’t in prison already is beyond me. What is it, 3 suspected shootings now? And Titus Young, a great WR who dropped into the 2nd round but had Top 15 talent. Lions took a chance – he had a good rookie season, started to emerge in year 2, then he comes unglued. 3 arrests in one week – DWI, then trying to steal his car, while drunk, from the police impound lot. Then breaking and entering a week later. Lions took a risk, and loss. Cardinals took a risk, and seem to be winning.


All players have risk. You pick to the best of your ability and try to weigh the likelihood of injury/drama/criminal versus what the player could become. It is wrong to look back on it and second guess a decision. Had Peterson blown out his shoulder a few more times his first few years or Harrell never injures his back and has a HOF career for the Pack – did that change the circumstance of the decision at the time of selection? It’s the same decision.


As far as this ‘Richard Sherman proves the Seahawks are real smart’ idea – the pick before Sherman, Jaye Howard, played in 2 games as a rookie and then was cut. If they are so damn smart, why did they waste a pick ahead of Sherman on a bust? Why not take Sherman with that pick rather than risk someone else taking him?




As far as first 2 round busts by the Packers - Brian Brohm was a bust. Hyped as a potential top pick the season before, he did not have the mental makeup of a QB. Not sure what TT or the scouting staff saw there.

Amazing that you still defend the selection of Justin Harrell with the 16th pick of the 2007 draft.

Everyone was surprised/amazed when TT pulled the trigger.

 

[Carl]

Nice that you pass judgement to a new poster immediately. Injuries are part if the game for every team in the NFL. As GB did when they recently won the Super Bowl.

My assessment is fact based not emotional. Bottom line is that TT needs to provide impact players every year in rounds 1 and 2. If free agency doesn't plug holes in the roster, the draft needs to provide a better batting average.

Please refrain from personal attacks.

That's just not realistic, not even close actually.

 

[Ace]

Very subjective. My opinion, I think Hawk, Raji and the OL selections have not been solid. Perry and Jones should be included. A #1 needs to play and contribute immediately. Please no injury discussion.

2nd round--Collins, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Lacy have been good as they should be at two. Murphy, Colledge, Jackson, Brohm, Lee, Neal and Worthy were/are marginal players. Collins--tragic situation. Hayward, we'll see. GB did miss his play making ability that surfaced in his rookie year. Keep in mind that the receivers have a multiplier associated with talent because they caught/catch passes from two HOFer's.

You tell me, outside of Rodgers--Huge, Matthews--Huge, are you completely satisfied with the #1 and #2 selections given the fact that TT doesn't supplement gaps in the roster with reasonable players.

Just askin'

You dont want to talk injuries because it ruins your argument but you have to. And you dont include Perry and Jones because calling either of them a bust this early is absolutely ridiculous.

Bulaga has played well when healthy. Sherrod had a devastating leg injury that cost him 2 years. You dont want to hear it but its true.

Now when you ask me am I completely satisfied? Yes I am. Aaron Clay Lacy Jordy Randall Collins Greg Hayward Hawk idk you tell me. Bulaga when healthy is the starting RT of this team. Raji was instrumental to getting a SB, granted he has completsly fallen off but still cant take away how good he was SB year.

As I will continue to maintain... Harrell is the ONLY legitimate bust of Teds 1st round picks. Jury is out on Sherrod but Ill even give you that he is shaping up to be another. Perry so far hasnt shown what you'd like to see but by no means is he a bust yet. And to judge Datone is ludacris.

 

[OCBP]

You dont want to talk injuries because it ruins your argument but you have to. And you dont include Perry and Jones because calling either of them a bust this early is absolutely ridiculous.

Bulaga has played well when healthy. Sherrod had a devastating leg injury that cost him 2 years. You dont want to hear it but its true.

Now when you ask me am I completely satisfied? Yes I am. Aaron Clay Lacy Jordy Randall Collins Greg Hayward Hawk idk you tell me. Bulaga when healthy is the starting RT of this team. Raji was instrumental to getting a SB, granted he has completsly fallen off but still cant take away how good he was SB year.

As I will continue to maintain... Harrell is the ONLY legitimate bust of Teds 1st round picks. Jury is out on Sherrod but Ill even give you that he is shaping up to be another. Perry so far hasnt shown what you'd like to see but by no means is he a bust yet. And to judge Datone is ludacris.

Only one question. Should #1 picks start immediately and have a major impact on the strength of a team?

If so, outside of Rodgers and Matthews, the debate is over. The GB defense is a wreck. Hawk is only on the team because TT loves him and he took a pay cut. Raji, likely won't return. The rest are marginal. Jones and Perry couldn't even play the majority of snaps on a defense that was pathetic.

On offense, as we saw, without Rodgers, the skill position players production diminished with the exception of Lacy.

TT needs to draft better if he maintains the draft/develop strategy or supplement with FA's.

Bottom line he has been the beneficiary of having two incredible talents at QB. Without Favre and Rodgers, because TT abandoned the Wolf philosophy, the team under his watch, as we saw this season is .500 at best.

 

[Ace]

Only one question. Should #1 picks start immediately and have a major impact on the strength of a team?

If so, outside of Rodgers and Matthews, the debate is over. The GB defense is a wreck. Hawk is only on the team because TT loves him and he took a pay cut. Raji, likely won't return. The rest are marginal. Jones and Perry couldn't even play the majority of snaps on a defense that was pathetic.

On offense, as we saw, without Rodgers, the skill position players production diminished with the exception of Lacy.

TT needs to draft better if he maintains the draft/develop strategy or supplement with FA's.

Bottom line he has been the beneficiary of having two incredible talents at QB. Without Favre and Rodgers, because TT abandoned the Wolf philosophy, the team under his watch, as we saw this season is .500 at best.

Oh the skill position players production diminished when possibly the best qbs in the NFL got hurt... you dont say. Come on man!

You seem to forget this team is 3 years removed from winning the Super Bowl.

 

[Ace]

Only one question. Should #1 picks start immediately and have a major impact on the strength of a team?

If so, outside of Rodgers and Matthews, the debate is over. The GB defense is a wreck. Hawk is only on the team because TT loves him and he took a pay cut. Raji, likely won't return. The rest are marginal. Jones and Perry couldn't even play the majority of snaps on a defense that was pathetic.

On offense, as we saw, without Rodgers, the skill position players production diminished with the exception of Lacy.

TT needs to draft better if he maintains the draft/develop strategy or supplement with FA's.

Bottom line he has been the beneficiary of having two incredible talents at QB. Without Favre and Rodgers, because TT abandoned the Wolf philosophy, the team under his watch, as we saw this season is .500 at best.

Its pretty obvious to me you are someone who doesnt like TT and thats fine thats your opinion. I am on the other end of that debate but I am also able to criticize him as well. He needs to utilize free agency, you can go back and look at some of my other posts if you want for proof. He is not a bad drafter though even in the 1st round as you feel he is.

He must be doing something right seeing as he does employ the draft and develop strategy and we are in the playoffs every year and won a Super Bowl 3 years ago.

 

[AmishMafia]

Amazing that you still defend the selection of Justin Harrell with the 16th pick of the 2007 draft.

Everyone was surprised/amazed when TT pulled the trigger.

No, not everyone. Pat Kirwin projected him to the Packers. There was talk.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's just not realistic, not even close actually.

Absolutely agree with you on that. But if the draft is the only way to acquire players you have to get more impact players out of it than other teams and that hasn´t been the case over the last few years.

Bottom line he has been the beneficiary of having two incredible talents at QB. Without Favre and Rodgers, because TT abandoned the Wolf philosophy, the team under his watch, as we saw this season is .500 at best.

While TT deserves credit for drafting Rodgers and sticking with him in 2008 there´s absolutely no denying this. And don´t forget the Packers played one team that finished above .500 during the time Rodgers was injured.

 

[OCBP]

Its pretty obvious to me you are someone who doesnt like TT and thats fine thats your opinion. I am on the other end of that debate but I am also able to criticize him as well. He needs to utilize free agency, you can go back and look at some of my other posts if you want for proof. He is not a bad drafter though even in the 1st round as you feel he is.

He must be doing something right seeing as he does employ the draft and develop strategy and we are in the playoffs every year and won a Super Bowl 3 years ago.

Its pretty obvious to me you are someone who doesnt like TT and thats fine thats your opinion. I am on the other end of that debate but I am also able to criticize him as well. He needs to utilize free agency, you can go back and look at some of my other posts if you want for proof. He is not a bad drafter though even in the 1st round as you feel he is.

He must be doing something right seeing as he does employ the draft and develop strategy and we are in the playoffs every year and won a Super Bowl 3 years ago.

You seem to forget that there are only a handful of players still in the roster from the 2011 team.

 

[Carl]

Only one question. Should #1 picks start immediately and have a major impact on the strength of a team?

If so, outside of Rodgers and Matthews, the debate is over. The GB defense is a wreck. Hawk is only on the team because TT loves him and he took a pay cut. Raji, likely won't return. The rest are marginal. Jones and Perry couldn't even play the majority of snaps on a defense that was pathetic.

On offense, as we saw, without Rodgers, the skill position players production diminished with the exception of Lacy.

TT needs to draft better if he maintains the draft/develop strategy or supplement with FA's.

Bottom line he has been the beneficiary of having two incredible talents at QB. Without Favre and Rodgers, because TT abandoned the Wolf philosophy, the team under his watch, as we saw this season is .500 at best.

Nearly every team in the league is 500 at best playing with their third/fourth string QB.

Yes, TT has benefitted from Rodgers, but he's the one who got him here. The number one best thing a GM can do is find the team a QB and TT did that immediately.

Also, with Favre, the Packers were 4-12 during TT's first season and ended up in the NFC championship a few years later. Having Favre alone did not make the team good.


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[OCBP]

Nearly every team in the league is 500 at best playing with their third/fourth string QB.

Yes, TT has benefitted from Rodgers, but he's the one who got him here. The number one best thing a GM can do is find the team a QB and TT did that immediately.

Also, with Favre, the Packers were 4-12 during TT's first season and ended up in the NFC championship a few years later. Having Favre alone did not make the team good.


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Draft and develop--I get it. You will defend the approach regardless of what is put in front of you.

No problem. However, if this approach doesn't work out--As is the case recently, you waste, in your words, the best thing the GM can do--Securing a great QB.

 

[Carl]

Draft and develop--I get it. You will defend the approach regardless of what is put in front of you.

No problem. However, if this approach doesn't work out--As is the case recently, you waste, in your words, the best thing the GM can do--Securing a great QB.

This has been argued countless times on the forum recently, by the way. You're a little late.

Anyway, what has been out in front of me is one of the best teams in the league under TT. That's a fact. It's not my fault you choose to ignore that and deem his philosophy a failure.


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[Ace]

This has been argued countless times on the forum recently, by the way. You're a little late.

Anyway, what has been out in front of me is one of the best teams in the league under TT. That's a fact. It's not my fault you choose to ignore that and deem his philosophy a failure.


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This is exactly the point you can try and try to hammer home to people that just flat out don't like Ted but it will never sink in. Is he perfect? Not at all. Do I like having a shot at the Super Bowl every year? You bet I do. The FACTS are that he has this team in amazing financial shape and we have a chance every single year, and since he doesn't utilize free agency, this is all due to his..... say it with me Draft and Develop philosophy.

 

[ShockwaveRider]

And even if we could redo it and come away with Dez Bryant, Richard Sherman, Harrison Smith, and Kiko Alonso, they would have all most likely, amazingly, suffered a bunch of torn ACL's and ripped hamstrings, broken backs, necks, etc. if they were on our team.

This would be ROFLMAO funny if it wasn't so damn true.

What is WRONG with the Packers strength and conditioning?

It's just so darn frustrating. I'm not particularly a "Dom Capers hater" but it seems like something needs to change on the defensive side of the ball and expecting a rookie to come in and make that amount of impact seems nearly impossible. Even a first rounder.

 

[NOMOFO]

Draft and develop--I get it. You will defend the approach regardless of what is put in front of you.

No problem. However, if this approach doesn't work out--As is the case recently, you waste, in your words, the best thing the GM can do--Securing a great QB.

What was "put in front of us" was: Winning the division YET AGAIN, despite another year decimated by injury, including losing our HOF QB for much of the year. Won the Super Bowl just 3 years ago. ...but you are correct...something needs to change ASAP. My favorite ...AHEM.... "The Bears, Lions and Vikes are all catching up to us".

 

[OCBP]

What was "put in front of us" was: Winning the division YET AGAIN, despite another year decimated by injury, including losing our HOF QB for much of the year. Won the Super Bowl just 3 years ago. ...but you are correct...something needs to change ASAP. My favorite ...AHEM.... "The Bears, Lions and Vikes are all catching up to us".

Agreed! It will interesting to see how the coaching changes impact the Lions/Vikes. I think the change helped the Bears last year.

 

[OCBP]

This is exactly the point you can try and try to hammer home to people that just flat out don't like Ted but it will never sink in. Is he perfect? Not at all. Do I like having a shot at the Super Bowl every year? You bet I do. The FACTS are that he has this team in amazing financial shape and we have a chance every single year, and since he doesn't utilize free agency, this is all due to his..... say it with me Draft and Develop philosophy.

Agree on the financial shape of the team. The approach provides flexibility in personnel decisions. That is exactly why I scratch my head on FA. I'm not one who wants to sign the big names unless, like Reggie White, they can be a difference maker. What I am interested in is players that can bolster special teams--an obvious weakness and I am interested in having an experienced back up QB instead of having the youngest team in the league every year. In addition, experienced players provide leadership in the locker room and on the field. The Woodson loss was big. Not saying he should have been resigned. However, when Lattimore has to step up to raise hell in the locker room after a poor 1st half, it shows you the unit needs leadership.

I would agree that TT has put the team in position to make the playoffs every year. I would disagree that he has put them in a position of having a realistic shot at winning a SB every year.

 

[Ace]

Agree on the financial shape of the team. The approach provides flexibility in personnel decisions. That is exactly why I scratch my head on FA. I'm not one who wants to sign the big names unless, like Reggie White, they can be a difference maker. What I am interested in is players that can bolster special teams--an obvious weakness and I am interested in having an experienced back up QB instead of having the youngest team in the league every year. In addition, experienced players provide leadership in the locker room and on the field. The Woodson loss was big. Not saying he should have been resigned. However, when Lattimore has to step up to raise hell in the locker room after a poor 1st half, it shows you the unit needs leadership.

I would agree that TT has put the team in position to make the playoffs every year. I would disagree that he has put them in a position of having a realistic shot at winning a SB every year.

This opinion is probably not going to go over well but I think leadership is one of the most overrated aspects in sports.

I completely agree on the special teams of this team, Im sick and tired of having an awful ST unit.