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Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by PackersDraft, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    I think one of the big things the defense needs is a fiery leader. We have good leaders in Pickett and Woodson. CM3 isn't quite as vocal and demonstrative during the game. Kuechly can be that guy that fires everyone up on the defense. If he is available, I say we grab him in a heartbeat - but I doubt we get a shot at him. That would be BPA - get a probowl level player at a non-need position vrs just a good player at a position of need.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. yallniggascheesewiz
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    yallniggascheesewiz Cheesehead

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    FrankRizzo Kuechly has the physical tools to play any LB position. I personally think he could play Strong Safety in a pinch.
  3. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Mmmm, not so sure. They said that about Aaron Curry too. I think Kuechly is a Sean Lee type of solid ILB, like the Cowboys have there, but certainly no Clay Matthews, Brooks Reed, Von Miller off the edge.
    Some speculate the kid from Alabama, Hightower, has that athletic ability to move from ILB to OLB and be a beast there. It's possible, and I'd bet on him over Kuechly for that. But I do love Kooch as an ILB. Imagine if Hawk had that guy's passion and intensity out there!
  4. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    STAT CM3 Kuechly
    Ht 6'3" 6'2"
    Wt 240 242
    40 4.62 4.58
    Bnch 23 27
    VL 35.5" 38"
    Brd 121" 123"
    Shut 4.18 4.12
    3cone 6.90 6.92

    Looks like Kuechly has a slight edge physically over Clay - but its weird how close these two are. From what I can tell, Kuechly has the instincts and the desire to succeed. He is better in pass defense than clay (2 interceptions last season) but not as good rushing the passer (0 sacks). But Kuechly was on a very poor defense at BC, there is no telling how he may have done had he been surrounded by more talent. I think he can learn how to rush the passer.
    I like the idea of making him a Packer - not sure how far up we would need to trade, though.
  5. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    no worthy on the lists?
  6. warhawk
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    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I agree totally with this way of thinking. IMO the Packers will fix their lack of pressure more effectively by creating more pressure from the front line. INSIDE pressure knocks QB's off their game in several ways. They don't get to use timing as an advantage, line of site to the receivers is taken away, and, once they get their feet moving to avoid the inside pressure they still have to worry about guys like CM3. When we are in a dogfight with the Bears it's when they can go with the 4man rush and cause problems for Rodgers WITHOUT needing to bring any other blitzers.
    Also, Capers has a problem in that he doesn't get much out of the blitz packages when he brings the ILB'rs. If he has the front line personnel to create pressure then when he does bring the LB'rs it will be more effective as well.

    Everybody is so focused on the guy opposite CM3 and getting better pressure from the right side would be great but our defense will improve MORE by getting the kind of pressure they produced when Jenkins was around.
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  7. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I want one (or two) of THESE prospects:

    15. Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama: I will be the first to admit that Upshaw lacks the lateral agility teams are looking for in a coverage linebacker. However, due to his incredible power and refined hand technique, he's arguably the safest pass rusher in this year's draft. Some call him a 'tweener. I believe he can be successful as a 4-3 defensive end or as a 3-4 rush linebacker -- and will prove it as a rookie.

    17. Melvin Ingram, DE/LB, South Carolina: Blessed with extraordinarily light feet for a 6-2, 276-pound man, Ingram's impressive agility made him a star at defensive tackle for the Gamecocks in 2011. As he proved at the combine, his athleticism may be good enough, in fact, to make the transition to defensive end or even outside linebacker in the 3-4 in the NFL. That said, his short arms (31 inches) will make him much easier to block at the NFL level and Ingram has struggled a bit with durability. Scouts would be wise to remember that Ingram started just 13 of the 51 games he played with the Gamecocks.

    24. Whitney Mercilus, DE/OLB, Illinois: Mercilus' staggering production (16 sacks, nine forced fumbles) at Illinois in 2011 was a function not only of his own talents but also an aggressive scheme that often gave him favorable matchups. While his statistics were inflated, the athleticism Mercilus demonstrated in workouts since this time argue that he has more upside than I've previously given him credit for. As one of several pass rushers capable of lining up at defensive end in the 4-3 or outside linebacker in the 3-4, I fully expect him to be drafted higher than my ranking indicates.

    30. Andre Branch, DE/OLB, Clemson: At 6-4, 270 pounds Branch has the size and athleticism to intrigue 4-3 and 3-4 teams, alike. Like South Carolina cornerback Stephon Gilmore, Branch's tape is a bit inconsistent but there is no denying the burst and flexibility he possesses, and that these traits project very well as an NFL pass rusher.

    32. Shea McClellin, OLB, Boise State: McClellin made a name for himself as a terror off the edge for the Broncos (20.5 career sacks) but it wasn't until he made the move to outside linebacker at the Senior Bowl that his true versatility was shown. Possessing the athleticism, technique and work ethic necessary to be successful in any scheme, McClellin is quietly among the safer prospects in the 2012 draft.

    35. Vinny Curry, DE, Marshall: Curry was every bit as productive against Conference USA talent as one might expect from a possible first-round talent, recording an eye-popping 77 tackles, 22 tackles for loss, 11 sacks, seven forced fumbles and three blocked kicks as a senior. There is some question about whether the 6-3, 266-pound Curry has the agility and recognition to handle converting to outside linebacker in the 3-4, but if 4-3 teams are willing to overlook his less than ideal size, they'll certainly be happy with Curry's natural pass rush skills and high-revving motor.

    48. Bruce Irvin, OLB, West Virginia: The NFL is a sucker for proven pass rushers and, frankly, so am I. There are plenty of red flags with Irvin, not the least of which is his rough upbringing and the fact that at this point he provides little other than his ability to harass quarterbacks. Other than quarterbacks, however, there isn't a position more valued in today's NFL than pass-rushers, and Irvin -- due to his explosive burst and lateral agility -- just might be the most gifted of this year's class.

    From the great Rob Rang http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...big-board-expanding-adjusting-50-best-players
  8. PackersDraft
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    PackersDraft Draftnik

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    Nice post. Shea McClellin is shaping up to be the favorite it looks like. But if someone like Upshaw or Mercilus drops it will be interesting to see whether or not TT pulls the trigger. Hopefully he hits a home run like he did in 2009 with this year's class.
  9. Stevie DK
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    Stevie DK Cheesehead

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    Shea is slightly becoming my #1 OLB as well, Mercilus not far behind and i certainly wouldn't be sad if he came our way.
    Upshaw is my #3.
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  10. PackersDraft
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    PackersDraft Draftnik

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    I agree. A lot has changed since I made this. It is amazing how stock fluctuates and the players aren't even doing anything right now.
  11. EvAn
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    EvAn Cheesehead

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    As much as WR is not a need I wouldn't mind if TT took Stephen Hill at 28. I can't remember the last time we had a WR picked in round one and you can't ignore his 6'5" frame that can do 4.3 40s. Basically the next megatron. He may need to work out his route tree a bit but he's an excellent blocker. Having him and Jermichael Finley would be match up nightmares every play.

    And from the tapes of Shea I've seen I'm really not all that impressed, he just looks awkward
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  12. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    That's why Kuechly is an inside linebacker. He doesn't rush the passer well, but is good in coverage, taking on blocks and playing the run. Brian Urlacher or Ray Lewis wouldn't be good outside linebackers either.
  13. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Oh right, I agree there totally... but we don't need any inside linebacker, considering we have the huge contract with Hawk, plus Bishop starting, and we have 2 backups who did better last year.
  14. 60six
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    60six DIE HARD

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    This^
  15. ExpatPacker
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    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Kuechly will almost certainly be gone by #28.

    Actually the one player that I hope drops to us (but probably won't) which we should take ahead of a DL or OLB is Mark Barron. Even if Nick Collins is coming back, Barron would be a tremendous addition to our backfield. If Collins is not coming back then we have a huge void to fill at FS and Barron would be it. If Barron is still around in the latter 3rd of the first round I wouldn't mind at all if the Packers traded up for him.

    We can always get a good OLB/DE/DT in round 2.

    If Packers got Barron in round 1 they could probably get someone like Curry, Brandon Thompson, Ronnell Lewis or someone comparable in the 2nd. That will be a pretty nice 2 rounds IMO. But like I said, I think the Pack would have to move up a little to get Barron, but I think it's worth it.
  16. Stevie DK
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    Stevie DK Cheesehead

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    If we want to trade up for Barron, then that would probably involve this year second round pick, or 2013 1 round, Barron is right now going at cowboys #14, and between #28 and #13 is a hole lot of value.
    That would probably mean, we don't have a shot at an OLB with great skills, ussuming we lost our second round in the trade.

    Personally i wouldn't trade up that much for Barron, rather stay and grab a OLB, trade up in second round and pick Harrison Smith.

    But in TT we trust!
  17. ExpatPacker
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    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Harrison Smith will not be there at #59. He will go at the end of round 1 to beginning of round 2. Smith is good, but Barron is clearly the best safety in the draft. That's the dilemma. If we wait on either they'll be gone. If Barron drops past #20 then I think we can make a play to trade up for him. If he's gone early, then hey, nothing we can do. I don't see the Cowboys taking him at #13 TBH. That just seems way early and there are other players that'll be on the board at #13 that the Cowpokes could really use more.
  18. Stevie DK
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    Stevie DK Cheesehead

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    Think i wrote we could trade up in the second round to grab Harrison. :)
    I agree Barron is a level over Smith, but picking up an OLB an Smith instead of "just Barron, would be better for the team (if collins retires), thats what i was trying to say.
  19. ExpatPacker
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    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Yes I certainly agree. If we had to trade our #1 and #2 just to get Barron that would be way too much. Getting a pass rushing OLB or DE in rounds 1 or 2 is a must. If Barron falls far enough we may be able to. Moving up to grab Smith in round 2 might be harder to do. Some have the Patsies picking Smith in round 1 at #31. I don't think Smith will last past the first ten picks of round 2. We'd have to trade up pretty far in round 2 to get him.
  20. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I believe, as often, Teddy believes there are some comparable, equal, or superior talents at the safety position that don't come from the giant programs like Alabama and Notre Dame.
    He finds equal talent from places like Bethune-Cookman (Nick Collins), Greg Jennings (Western Michigan), Josh Sitton &
    TJ Lang (Central Florida & Eastern Michigan), etc..... while monster school, better prospects like Taylor Mays (USC) and Chad Jackson (Florida) totally flopped.

    I'm not expecting either of these guys (Barron or Harrison Smith) to even be a consideration for us.

    He has to add premium talent to the pass rush early & often.
    The best way to improve the pass defense is to improve the pass rush, pure & simple. Heat on the QB is the #1 priority.
    We all know a good-great pass rush can make a decent DB look good and a good DB look great.
    It starts up front.
  21. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Interesting discussion. I’d be very surprised at a huge, Clay Matthews-like trade up in this draft. The Packers need players at all three levels of the D and I expect two of the first three players taken will play on that side of the ball. I just don’t see Thompson spending two or more picks on one player at the top of this draft. And I may have a cardiac event if Thompson trades next year’s number 1. I don’t know if Thompson has any hard and fast rules but if he does I think not trading future picks is one of them. Not only that, but if I remember correctly he had an offer of a future pick for the pick he ended up taking Justin Harrell with in ’07 and didn’t want to sacrifice that draft (ironic, I know). Thompson taking the long view so far has meant he doesn’t trade current picks in the first 3 or 4 rounds for future picks and he doesn’t trade premium future picks in the current draft. He is certainly as active as any GM moving up and (mostly) down in the current draft but he seems to treat each draft as its own “entity”.

    In spite of what he says publically Thompson certainly recognizes the needs on defense and the importance of improving the pass rush. But what we don’t know is if the Packers have a player or two many think are going in the fourth round, for example, graded alongside players most rate as second or third rounders. And that leads me to a couple of questions for the board:

    Assuming Thompson doesn’t move picks #28, #59, and #90, what are the odds all three picks will be on the defensive side of the ball? My guess is there is a significantly less than 50% chance of that happening. But that’s kind of an easy call. What about this one: Assuming Thompson exercises picks #28 and #59, what are the chances both will play defense?
  22. TeamTundra
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    TeamTundra Cheesehead

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    Personally I'm hoping that the Packers first three picks are all on defense. OLB/DL in round one and round
    two would be the opposite, so if we take a OLB in round one, pick a DL in round two or vice versa. Round
    three I would draft a safety. I wouldn't reach for any position, but I also wouldn't mind in we trade up in
    round 2 to grab a DL if we take the OLB in round one.

    We only need a few pieces on offense - a backup center, RB, guard/tackle, QB, etc. - which I think can be
    addressed in rounds 4 and later.
  23. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Totally agree... OLB is the need position.
  24. ExpatPacker
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    I'd say the chances are quite significant. There should be a number of good OLB/DE/DB picks available at #59, and if TT was to go on the offensive side, I'm not sure who it could be unless a very good OLineman drops down or a RB that they are really high on.

    There are just too many needs on the defensive side to pass on unless there's an offensive prospect that is just clearly the BPA at that point.
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  25. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    I totally agree. TT knows the defense needs playmakers. Unless some stud falls, defense is the pick. Guys like Jared Crick, Devon Still, Bruce Irvin and Zach Brown should be around come the second round. The only way I can this changing is if a running back falls.

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