Packers after RB Turner?

[Greg C.]

I'm not familiar with Turner, but if he's as good as you guys say he is, this sounds like a good deal. It seems like the talent is pretty consistent from picks 16-30 in this draft. It's probably more likely as a draft day trade, after both teams see how the first 15 picks play out.

 

[packerfan1245]

After Peterson there isn't anything special in this draft class. Lynch is not special.

What makes you think that?

 

[porky88]

Seeing what Atlanta did with Matt Schaub, San Diego could follow with Turner. It would not shock me to see them do so. Buffalo, Green Bay, and Tennessee have the biggest needs at RB right now. Compensation will be probably to much for Ted Thompson in my opinion.

 

[PackerLegend]

This source isnt very reliable but look at the way bottom

On the Sidelines
March 22, 2007
Written by Joe Arrigo - PackerChatters Staff



It is frustrating for Packer fans to see other trades
happen and not a Randy Moss to the Packers trade, but
remember this, the other players contracts pail in
comparison to Moss' and the other teams were NOT
dealing with the Raiders and Al Davis.

There are 4 players the Packers would
trade up for and they are Calvin Johnson, Adrian
Peterson, LaRon Landry and Amobi Okoye. A trade up is
DEFINITELY an option the Packers are exploring.

Ted Thompson wants to add a difference maker on
the offensive side of the ball this draft and feels
Johnson and Peterson are WELL WORTH the gamble of
trading up for. He has always said that there are
certain players that you have to "break the norm" for.

To add on to Thompson and his infatuation with Calvin
Johnson, I was told that he either had a dinner with
Johnson, his family and representatives the night
before or the night of his pro day work out.

Here are some player that Packer fans should keep a
close eye on draft day AFTER round 1....Craig "Buster"
Davis, Michael Bush, Chris Henry, Antonio Pittman,
Dwayne Wright, Tavarous Bain, Fred Bennett, Justin
Durant, Jason Hill, Damion Hughes, Josh Wilson,
Trent Edwards, Drew Stanton, Ben Patrick, Martrez
Milner, Josh Gattis and Melvin Bullitt.

I was told that IF USC WR Dwayne Jarrett runs a 4.6 or
lower, he would go no higher then #32 (to San Diego)
and a 2nd round slip to the Packers is a real
possibility.

Josh Swogger is thought highly of with the staff and
scouts and is an option in the later part of the
draft. If Troy Smith was to be available in the 4th
round, then he to is an option I was told. This is NOT
to knock Aaron Rodgers, but it is to put pressure on
Ingle Martin.

The Packers will wait a month or so to see how LaVarr
Arrington is feeling (rehabbing) and may have some
interest in the former All Pro LB.

The Packers may have some interest in Sammy Knight,
the former Chief and Saint who was released yesterday.
Also, Mike Doss' name was brought up to me in passing.

Some Packers that may be dealt on or near draft day
include KGB, Chad Clifton, Robert Ferguson and Bubba
Franks.

The Packers have talked to the Chargers about RB
Michael Turner, and may try to make an offer to trade
for him.

 

[Apocalypse]

Thanks, it's good to see that our FO is thinking about trading for Turner. Hopefully we can get him.

 

[bozz_2006]

it took me all of a minute to realize that "FO" means front office. dunce hat, right here.

 

[Apocalypse]

it took me all of a minute to realize that "FO" means front office. dunce hat, right here.

:rotflmao:

 

[Apocalypse]

Highlight video of Michael Turner (just a short one):
http://www.dailymotion.com/jcdavey/video/x1idt5_turnburn

Here's his TD against the Patriots in the playoffs:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fliv_michael-turners-td-run-in-2006-play

Bring him in! :cheerleader:

 

[warhawk]

One of the discussions I find surprising is interest in Peterson. Not that I don't think he's a good player. I do think he's good.

There are certain things I really like about the zone blocking system that becomes important in draft day strategy.

1) It requires a RB to have certain abilitities but NOT NECESSARILY one that has marquee physical traits or capabilities. Now if Peterson is a RB that is both physically a monster AND his strengths include good vision, the one cut/cutback style, etc, that's great.

2) Many teams will pass on "0" lineman that are maybe on the smallish, quicker side that fits perfectly in what the zone requires. We can pick up a 4th or 5th rounder that would probably go earlier to the more competitive standard blocking style teams.

Because of the type of RB that can be very successful in this system may not have the reputation of a Peterson is the very reason I do not see a need to choose a RB with the 16th pick let alone TRADE UP for one.

I would give a 2nd rounder for Turner over what it would cost to trade up for Peterson all day long. Use those #1's somewhere else.

 

[Mortfini]

This guy has amazing speed

but will he be able to pick up our zone blocking


also about trading for him what would SD want that we have

 

[Apocalypse]

This guy has amazing speed

but will he be able to pick up our zone blocking


also about trading for him what would SD want that we have

- Swap 1st round picks
or
- Our 2nd round pick

 

[bozz_2006]

if we could pick him up with a swapping of 1st round picks, i'd be all over that but i think they'll want more, ie. swapping first round picks and a 2nd day pick... or maybe even swapping 1sts + a 3rd rounder. still, i agree with warhawk, i'd do that before trying to move up in the draft to pick up A. Peterson

 

[Greg C.]

It makes no sense to me that Thompson would be interested in Adrian Peterson. He does not look like a zone blocking scheme type of back, plus it would cost a lot to trade up far enough to get him.

Turner would maybe make more sense, although I see that he is a bit on the large side (in the 230s). My understanding of zone blocking is that it is usually best to have small to medium RB's who can squeeze through small holes in the line that open and close quickly.

 

[all about da packers]

Greg, Turner would be a great addition to Morency.

Morency is more of a quick type back to hit the holes quickly, and Turner could be our bigger back that is more of a power back with decent speed.

IMO they'd compliment each other quite well. I still think the Charges will have an asking price that TT thinks is too high for Turner, so I don't think we'd land him (at least not this year, maybe next year as a UFA)...

 

[Greg C.]

Greg, Turner would be a great addition to Morency.

Morency is more of a quick type back to hit the holes quickly, and Turner could be our bigger back that is more of a power back with decent speed.

IMO they'd compliment each other quite well. I still think the Charges will have an asking price that TT thinks is too high for Turner, so I don't think we'd land him (at least not this year, maybe next year as a UFA)...

Thanks for the feedback. But are there any larger backs that have had success in this scheme? It seems like the guys in Denver have all been small to medium sized. And I heard that the Falcons traded away T.J. Duckett, who is a larger, power-back type, because he wasn't fitting the scheme well. Najeh Davenport did not fit the scheme, either. That's why I'm skeptical. I'm thinking Thompson might not be looking for a larger back to complement the smaller back, as would be the case for most teams. But of course I'm just speculating here.

 

[porky88]

Any RB can work in the zone blocking scheme with the proper coaching. It takes more vision than anything to be good at it. You don't need to be small or big. It's the Fullbacks and Offensive Lineman that need to make the difficult adjustment.

 

[all about da packers]

Thanks for the feedback. But are there any larger backs that have had success in this scheme? It seems like the guys in Denver have all been small to medium sized. And I heard that the Falcons traded away T.J. Duckett, who is a larger, power-back type, because he wasn't fitting the scheme well. Najeh Davenport did not fit the scheme, either. That's why I'm skeptical.

I think you're right to be skeptical, I can only think of Droughens as the other 'larger' back to have been in the scheme, and he is around 220 LBS. However his success was for only one year before he got traded.

Problem with Turner is that he is listed at 237 LBS on the Chargers website. That is a significant different (in football terms) than 220. That makes me think he might not be that good of a fit...

 

[porky88]

Thanks for the feedback. But are there any larger backs that have had success in this scheme? It seems like the guys in Denver have all been small to medium sized. And I heard that the Falcons traded away T.J. Duckett, who is a larger, power-back type, because he wasn't fitting the scheme well. Najeh Davenport did not fit the scheme, either. That's why I'm skeptical.

I think you're right to be skeptical, I can only think of Droughens as the other 'larger' back to have been in the scheme, and he is around 220 LBS. However his success was for only one year before he got traded.

Problem with Turner is that he is listed at 237 LBS on the Chargers website. That is a significant different (in football terms) than 220. That makes me think he might not be that good of a fit...

As long as he can read the hole his size shouldn't play a huge factor. The zone blocking scheme is all about making the proper reads. In a man blocking scheme the RB knows where the hole is going to be when the huddle breaks. In the zone blocking scheme he has an idea of where it will be but it generally can open up anywhere. The player reads the hole and makes the cut. It's really a simple philosophy. That's why I don't understand why people make it out more than it is for the running back. I hear “will he work in it” all the time on this forum but with the proper coaching the system is designed to plug just about anybody back there and it should work.

Look at Ron Dayne last year. He had success for the Texans late last year and he's about 245. He's good at making reads though and that's why he ended up working well there late last year.

Generally the system is tough for offensive lineman and fullbacks. They have to be quicker and common sense says for them to be quicker they have to be smaller so they can get low. You could still fine a big guy and play him there but it’s rare. A smaller lineman can also struggle there if he lacks quickness and can’t make proper cuts. Lineman and Fullbacks play a far more important role than the running back in this scheme. So guys like Turner and Peterson could easily work in this scheme especially if they are coached well.

 

[all about da packers]

I didn't see your top post porky, but that makes sense.

Hard to imagine Truner not having good vision.

 

[Apocalypse]

Thanks for the feedback. But are there any larger backs that have had success in this scheme? It seems like the guys in Denver have all been small to medium sized. And I heard that the Falcons traded away T.J. Duckett, who is a larger, power-back type, because he wasn't fitting the scheme well. Najeh Davenport did not fit the scheme, either. That's why I'm skeptical. I'm thinking Thompson might not be looking for a larger back to complement the smaller back, as would be the case for most teams. But of course I'm just speculating here.

Mike Anderson is just as big (230lbs) as Turner. He wasn't quick at all and not really fast. TJ Duckett is slow. Davenport is slow. And all the other big backs, they're slow. Turner on the other hand is a big back with close to 4.3 speed, you don't see that very often.

 

[pyledriver80]

Thanks for the feedback. But are there any larger backs that have had success in this scheme? It seems like the guys in Denver have all been small to medium sized. And I heard that the Falcons traded away T.J. Duckett, who is a larger, power-back type, because he wasn't fitting the scheme well. Najeh Davenport did not fit the scheme, either. That's why I'm skeptical.

I think you're right to be skeptical, I can only think of Droughens as the other 'larger' back to have been in the scheme, and he is around 220 LBS. However his success was for only one year before he got traded.

Problem with Turner is that he is listed at 237 LBS on the Chargers website. That is a significant different (in football terms) than 220. That makes me think he might not be that good of a fit...

As long as he can read the hole his size shouldn't play a huge factor. The zone blocking scheme is all about making the proper reads. In a man blocking scheme the RB knows where the hole is going to be when the huddle breaks. In the zone blocking scheme he has an idea of where it will be but it generally can open up anywhere. The player reads the hole and makes the cut. It's really a simple philosophy. That's why I don't understand why people make it out more than it is for the running back. I hear “will he work in it” all the time on this forum but with the proper coaching the system is designed to plug just about anybody back there and it should work.

Look at Ron Dayne last year. He had success for the Texans late last year and he's about 245. He's good at making reads though and that's why he ended up working well there late last year.

Generally the system is tough for offensive lineman and fullbacks. They have to be quicker and common sense says for them to be quicker they have to be smaller so they can get low. You could still fine a big guy and play him there but it’s rare. A smaller lineman can also struggle there if he lacks quickness and can’t make proper cuts. Lineman and Fullbacks play a far more important role than the running back in this scheme. So guys like Turner and Peterson could easily work in this scheme especially if they are coached well.

Thats half of it. The real Bonus comes from the backside chopping allowing for the cutback if the hole does not open. This is where most big plays in a ZBS come from.

The problem is with smaller guys they tend to try to hit the hole too quick and are impatient. The bigger guys however lack the speed, for the most part, to bust the big runs on cutbacks. This is just a generalization.

I think the smaller "speed guys" are just so used at going full speed thats its hard to be patient. Bigger guys generally have an easier time hitting thier holes because they are naturally slower thus allowing more time for the hole to open. The problem is if it never does open they lack the speed to cutback for the big gainer

 

[Greg C.]

Thats half of it. The real Bonus comes from the backside chopping allowing for the cutback if the hole does not open. This is where most big plays in a ZBS come from.

The problem is with smaller guys they tend to try to hit the hole too quick and are impatient. The bigger guys however lack the speed, for the most part, to bust the big runs on cutbacks. This is just a generalization.

I think the smaller "speed guys" are just so used at going full speed thats its hard to be patient. Bigger guys generally have an easier time hitting thier holes because they are naturally slower thus allowing more time for the hole to open. The problem is if it never does open they lack the speed to cutback for the big gainer

The great thing about Ahman Green was his patience. He was perfect for this offense. It would be great to have a younger version of him, if anyone like that is available.

I'm not sure I agree with porky when he says that just about any RB can be coached in this scheme. I think there are certain players who have a knack for finding that hole quickly and others who don't. So much of being a good running back is instinctive. It will be very interesting to see how things work out next year, regardless of who the running backs are. If the O-line improves, which it ought to, there should be some opportunities for big runs.

 

[pyledriver80]

Thats half of it. The real Bonus comes from the backside chopping allowing for the cutback if the hole does not open. This is where most big plays in a ZBS come from.

The problem is with smaller guys they tend to try to hit the hole too quick and are impatient. The bigger guys however lack the speed, for the most part, to bust the big runs on cutbacks. This is just a generalization.

I think the smaller "speed guys" are just so used at going full speed thats its hard to be patient. Bigger guys generally have an easier time hitting thier holes because they are naturally slower thus allowing more time for the hole to open. The problem is if it never does open they lack the speed to cutback for the big gainer

The great thing about Ahman Green was his patience. He was perfect for this offense. It would be great to have a younger version of him, if anyone like that is available.

I'm not sure I agree with porky when he says that just about any RB can be coached in this scheme. I think there are certain players who have a knack for finding that hole quickly and others who don't. So much of being a good running back is instinctive. It will be very interesting to see how things work out next year, regardless of who the running backs are. If the O-line improves, which it ought to, there should be some opportunities for big runs.

Yeah, I don't think patience is real coachable, but more instinctive. I would of loved to had Greenin his prime with the ZBS scheme

 

[bozz_2006]

a great RB is a great RB no matter what scheme you put them in.

 

[bozz_2006]

if we could pick him up with a swapping of 1st round picks, i'd be all over that but i think they'll want more, ie. swapping first round picks and a 2nd day pick... or maybe even swapping 1sts + a 3rd rounder. still, i agree with warhawk, i'd do that before trying to move up in the draft to pick up A. Peterson