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Official T J.C. Tretter thread

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by PackFanNChiTown, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. PackFanNChiTown
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    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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  2. rodell330
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    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Yea the Sherrod injury has to be serious. Hopefully this means the end of marshall newhouse at LT.
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  3. Wood Chipper
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    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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  4. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    He doesn't play for at least a year or two. he is very athletic, but he is raw and needs to add some bulk and strength. Newhouse is a much better option for the next year or two.
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  5. jaybadger82
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    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    I need to vent:

    Hated this pick. Not because I dislike Tretter or think he won't make it on our roster. I hated this one because it represented poor value. This guy was graded as a 6th or 7th round pick. There is no need to use a fourth round selection on a player that can be obtained later, using one of our numerous remaining picks.

    We give up value by missing the chance to kick the tires on another player on our draft board when we reach for a guy that isn't so highly thought of by other franchises. For example, we could have given Quinton Patton or Jesse Williams a good look in camp and still obtained Tretter in the 5th or 6th round. We shouldn't have to trade back into the 4th in order to grab Franklin, when we could've used this pick on him. We could've been trading back for someone else...

    I understand that Ted has a board and sticks to it and I respect Ted's eye for talent but by failing to adjust for the objective value of a player like Tretter, we miss on value. You're paying a greater opportunity cost in order to obtain a player that would probably be available for less later on.

    Disagree all you want: you're disagreeing with basic economics.

    With that off my chest, welcome aboard, J.C. He's a Packer now and I wish him the best.

    Besides, everyone loves J.C.:

    [​IMG]
  6. rodell330
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    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Im not in love with the pick either but gotta protect the 110 million dollar investment right?
  7. Shawnsta3
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    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    This guy is definitely a Guard project. A little early, but talented. We'll see.
  8. Packers80
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    Packers80 Cheesehead

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    You're basing your entire argument based off the fact that he was graded as a "6th or 7th" rounder. How do you know that? What if TT had him as a 4th? You don't know what they had him graded as.
  9. jaybadger82
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    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    The consensus is that he is something of a project at a relatively low-value position in today's NFL (OG). Most services had him going in the sixth or later. He would have been available with one of our three fifth round picks at the time.

    Look, I'm sure Thompson thinks very highly of Tretter, hence the selection. But what if TT had him as a first-rounder? -Would that make sense? If you think so, I have a $12 dollar banana for sale that you might want to buy.

    Opportunity cost is a pretty basic economics concept and it's a legitimate gripe with regards to using a forth round pick on Tretter. Part of the draft process is gauging market value. By reaching here we lose value.
  10. PikeBadger
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    PikeBadger Cheesehead

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    Absolutely. Ted is drafting for 2014, not for guys that he expects to be stars in 2013. Newhouse's contract expires after the 2013 season. He's looking for a potential replacement.
  11. Packers80
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    Packers80 Cheesehead

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    First of all, I understand the term opportunity cost, I'm a college student who is currently in a sports economics class, and I can assure you I have an A. Besides the term (opportunity cost), this has nothing to do with economics. You're still making an assumption. "He would have been available with one of our three fifth round picks at the time." How do you know that? What if there were a few other teams who were interested in him in the 4th round? You're not in the war room and you're not their scout, you're merely a fan of the team. It's great that everyone has their opinion and you're entitled to yours but you can't form an argument based off assumption.
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  12. PikeBadger
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    PikeBadger Cheesehead

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    I understand your ranting, and that you feel Tretter isn't 4th round talent The services you mentioned have no draft picks and it is likely that there were a couple of the 31 other teams that have Tretter valued similar to Thompson. I prefer that he stick to his board. I am not thrilled with the trade up to get Franklin unless they are going to shop Lacy & Bishop for a first round pick next year to someone like Kansas City, San Diego or the Jets. I don't like the idea of having two rookie running backs because there contracts will expire in the same year and, I don't like rookies playing full time because they do stupid things too often. Two guys like that missing assignments in pass pro can get the main man hurt. Just my thoughts.
  13. easyk83
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    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Scouting services should be taken with a grain of salt. Compared to what the Team's FO and Coaches do in evaluation the typical media/indy scouting group's evaluation is cursory at best. These two OLs look like versatile projects that can be slid inside where we don't have much depth.
  14. GeeDogWarrior
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    GeeDogWarrior 0 - 0

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    If he adds some decent depth to the OLine - I'm fine with it.
    Still bummed we haven't added any depth to the OLB position so far.
  15. MiamiBeachPacker
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    MiamiBeachPacker Cheesehead

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    Chase Thomas is still on the board for now at OLB
  16. PikeBadger
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    PikeBadger Cheesehead

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    I think Tretter is the new backup center.
  17. jaybadger82
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    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Nobody, including TT, is operating with perfect information in the draft and everyone must make certain predictions and assumptions about what is going to happen. For instance, calling Tretter a good value in the forth relies on the assumption that someone else was going to select him before our next pick. He was the sixth ranked OG prospect available when we selected him at #122 overall according to ESPN. Objectively speaking, it was very likely that he would be available for us later on, especially with the number of offensive linemen that had gone earlier in this draft. With this in mind, I would have tried to use a later pick on Tretter. (All of this also relies on the assumption that Tretter actually pans out).

    I understand we may be at a difference of opinion on this one, but I would've looked to draft Trotter later. I just think we would have gotten better value by kicking the tires on another prospect before grabbing J.C. or trading down/for future picks. Congrats on the A in sports economics class.
  18. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Many times through the years I've read after the draft of the team or teams interested in the player the Packers "reached for" shortly after the Packers' pick. I didn't know anything about Tretter before today but I'm certain of two things: 1) Thompson doesn't think he reached for Tretter - his plethora of trade downs as GM is evidence that (IOW he would have traded down if he thought he could have gotten him later), and 2) No one, including Thompson, knows for certain where he would have been taken if the Packers didn't take him where they did. But Thompson and staff are in a position to make a much better guess than commentators on the draft, or any of us.
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  19. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Well that ends GVR on this team. He's a former QB and will be our new Center.
  20. TheGiftedApe
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    TheGiftedApe TheGiftedApe

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    One of these guys will be a center and the other will be the new tj lang fill a backup role position. Hopefully this means atleast everything outside of LT should be much better this year as long as bulaga is healthy, and lang will get a full season at 1 posistion. Not to hate on Newhouse I love newhouse, he has been asked to do something he is not qualified for, I always wondered why they never tried newhouse at C, or LG.

    All that being said, having an athletic center from an ivy league college is not a bad thing.
    i like this quote from his scouting report:
  21. mayo44
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    mayo44 Guest

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    Consensus of what? NFL GMs? Or talking head know-it-alls like Mel Kiper? Those same talking heads put Lacy in the 1st round and many of them put Franklin in the 2nd round.
  22. jaybadger82
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    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Yep, and the value we obtained by holding off on Lacy and Franklin has been widely lauded.

    Are you arguing that Tretter was widely perceived as a mid-round talent amongst NFL scouts? Suppose he was at the very top of our draft board and we selected him in the first round. Most fans would be furious- and rightfully so. Even if Tretter becomes a starting guard for us, that's terrible value, and I don't think using a forth rounder on him made great sense either.

    There's no reason to use a 4th round pick on what you can acquire with a 5th or 6th rounder. IMO, the difference between a developmental guy like Tretter and some of the other G prospects at that point in the draft wasn't so great as to warrant this kind of a reach. Granted, I'm just a Monday morning QB and our scouting department has put a great deal more time and thought into this. Maybe he becomes a quality starter in the next year or two. Nonetheless, I don't think there were other front offices circling this one, licking their chops, quite that early. And although he tested nicely, I don't see how Tretter presents exceptional value above replacement in terms of OL prospects.

    Please link to any such reports regarding Tretter with a friendly "told you so."

    I'm just of the opinion that Tretter would have probably been available for us in the fifth round or later and, if not, there was similar OL talent that could be taken at a later point. No way to definitely prove or disprove this. Either way, I Hope Tretter works out and I wish the best of luck to this young man. I'll stop harping on this.
  23. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Do you really think a fair reading of "Many times through the years..." sounds like I was referring to Tretter? And while you are "just of the opinion that Tretter would have PROBABLY been available..." - and of course you're entitled to your opinion - you should understand how many of us trust Thompson and his staff's opinion more than yours.

    Here's an example of "many times through the years": First it's just an example - an analogy - so it should go without saying that Nick Collins does not equal JC Tretter. When Collins was picked in the second round many Packers fans and national "experts" yelled "reach". Collins was viewed as being too raw and he went to a small school so of course he would have been available later in the draft. But some time after that draft I remember reading that there was another team very interested in taking Collins, so the Packers probably wouldn't have landed him if they had followed what passes as conventional wisdom.

    Here is part of what SI had to say after the Packers picked him:
    NEGATIVES: Hesitant, indecisive and not an efficient defender. Too quick up the field and takes himself out of the action. Slow locating the ball. Tackles high, which results in players picking up yardage off initial contact.

    ANALYSIS: Possessing outstanding computer numbers, Collins is a prospect who must start to translate his athletic skills onto the football field. A little small for safety, he has potential to slide over at cornerback and at the very least, a practice squad player potentially a team's dime back next September.

    PROJECTION: Undrafted Free Agent
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  24. packnutt
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    packnutt '97 Shareholder

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    Excellent post. Goes to show that the "expert" analyst's usually do not know what they're talking about.

    The white owl is wise.
  25. jaybadger82
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    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    This is a discussion about the selection of J.C. Tretter so I hope you can excuse my assumption given the context.

    The report you mention would seem to offer some explanation for the early selection of Collins because- it seems clear to me- that in the absence of clubs ready to use an early pick on Collins, it was a reach to take him in the 2nd regardless of the fact he worked out.

    I'll keep my eyes peeled for such reports about Tretter.

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