OFFICIAL DEFENSIVE ISSUES THREAD

[longtimefan]

When you consider the loss of Nick Collins, Burnett with a club cast and Mike Neal is still on the sidelines, Capers is kind of limited in what he can do.

Hopefully Neal is back this week, and Burnett should be getting that cast off soon. That will give Capers a bit more flexibility, which will help improve this defense.

Yes I agree...But some people look at how the D was last year and expect it to be the same this year..

They forget about the injuries, and loss of Jenkins...

Collins out is a HUGE loss, and we cant replace Jenkins, so in my view those two players are the real issue with the defense..Jenkins provided the pass rush in the middle that allowed BJ to get pressure as well and for Hawk to slide in...Collins was able to direct the players in the back and that helped...

It is all connected..

No pass rush up front, so q/b and wr have better success..Missing our best player in the secondary those wr will have a easier time to get open

But it must be Capers cuz he sucks?

 

[TJV]

What's with all the name-calling among Packers fans on this thread?

Obviously the Packers D has to play better to achieve the ultimate goal. Certainly the defenders in the Packers locker room realize that and some said so. As far as Capers play calling I can guarantee you this: He doesn't call a single scheme in which an opponent's WR is supposed to be running free in the end zone. As Wayne Larrivee mentioned this morning, I think part of the problem is the absence not only of Nick Collins' physical talent but his brain. But that's by no means the entire problem.

The Packers just finished the first half of their season. How they're playing right now isn't going to matter in the playoffs and that goes for all the other teams as well. In another thread I mentioned the scariest team in the playoffs will be the team that gets hot toward the end of the season, like the Packers did last season. The Packers defense will have to improve to win it all and there's a realistic chance that'll happen. The Packers have great coaching minds on both sides of the ball and they have talent to work with. Be upset if it makes you feel better or "realistic", but there's no reason to call other Packers fans names, is there?

 

[SpartaChris]

Something else to consider: Having missed most of last season, Burnett is essentially a rookie this season, and it shows. The lack of veteran leadership at the position to help him hurts his ability to pick up the defensive scheme. Most of our blown coverages this season have been on him.

 

[BoltNut]

You guys could probably care less what I, a Charger fan, thinks about this game, but here goes. Sure, we basically gift wrapped that game for the Packers by spotting them 2 picks and a 14 point lead early. The Bolts were able to get back into this game late and make things interesting. Rivers is a very good QB that is having an awful year and no one seems to be able to put a finger on just why. The Bolts are a good team capable of putting up a lot of points on anyone, but have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot.

Your QB, Rogers, is really efficient. There are no wasted moves or decisions that anyone could call bad ones. He, in my opinion was the reason for Green Bay's success. The coverage by San Diego was fairly good. The sacks on Rogers were coverage sacks, and only because he could not escape the pocket. The Packer O-line did a great job in protecting Rogers AND controlling the rush in a way that opened up room for Rogers to escape. The problem the Bolts have is that they cannot be consistent in their pass rush. The only thing they could do was try to use the rush in a manner that didn't allow Rogers to escape containment. We could not stop everyone, the Packers have far too many play-makers on offense to do that.

Granted, your defense gave up quite a few yards. Between the 20's EVERY team is giving up ridiculous yards. Your defense toughened up in the red zone and kept things in check. Vincent Jackson is an excellent receiver and is difficult to cover. Rivers is good at finding Jackson on deep routes, but he needs time in the pocket to do it. Bottom line, in my opinion anyway, was you had two very good teams playing a shoot-out style of game. The Packers had a better "gunslinger" calling the shots than we did, that day. I saw this as the only real difference.

Okay, I'm done. You may now fire at will. LOL

 

[GeeDogWarrior]

I'm not ok.... but we at least somehow, every time, become clutch in the final seconds with a turnover.

our defense is like a evil Tony Romo twin from another dimension or something....
our Defense is awful until the clutch, while Romo is great until the clutch.
as long as we keep winning, colt's 06 and cardinal's 09 defenses were probably more awful, yet elite QB play carried those squads to the big game, with peyton winning his superbowl.

 

[longtimefan]

our defense is like a evil Tony Romo twin from another dimension or something....
our Defense is awful until the clutch, while Romo is great until the clutch.
as long as we keep winning, colt's 06 and cardinal's 09 defenses were probably more awful, yet elite QB play carried those squads to the big game, with peyton winning his superbowl.

In the playoffs the Colts defense was a different team..They turned it up in playoffs to the tune of 16 points a game and 239 yards per game...In the season it was 23 points and 323 yards....Whole 7 points less a game and about 100 yards less..

I recall them and how their run defense was so horrid, last in the league with 173 yards rushing allowed per game..no one thought they could do anything...But went to only 80 yards per game rushing allowed in playoffs..

Cards..20 points 346 yards
playoffs--45 points and 455 yards

 

[GeeDogWarrior]

^ oh crap, I meant the 08' cardinals....

 

[GeeDogWarrior]

In '08 our defense sucked, same scheme from 2007 that got us a 13-3 record with an nfc title appearance and what not, but we got wiped out by injuries in 2008, the 4-3 was all undermanned, colin cole was no corey williams. gerrh!
Bob Sanders didn't adjust to adversity or change things up, so our defense was just gettin' it's rear kicked ... deer in headlights.

I was kinda thinking the same thing has been happening this year so far, cause our 4 man rush has been sucking, Raji and Clay have both been doubled up on.
Pickett/Green aren't bull rushers, CJ Wilson is a decent backup, Jarius is a fat linebacker/undersized 3-4 DE that can't be that Up the Gut Pressure guy we need, Walden ain't a game breaker, our 4 man line has been neutrelized this year, we NEED Mike Neal to fill the Cullen Jenkins' Role in order to successfully run the 2-4-5 nickle scheme that won us Superbowl 45.

We're undermanned right now (until we get Neal back), so how about swapping back to our fancy smoke and mirrors type of defense from 2009?

According to some stats, We've been getting sacks and takeaways this year when we blitz, we've been giving up TDs in our 4 man rush....so umm.... yeah, 2009 type defense anyone?
I hate the gimmicky defense, it sucks long term, but we just need it to work until we get Neal back.
idk... jets have a less talented group than us, but rex ryan's fancy schemes seem to work...
blah! my 2 cents in hopes our defense improves.

 

[SpartaChris]

Charles Woodson offered his take on at least one thing that he felt should change. He said it isn't good that Matthews is stuck at primarily one spot all the time. He thinks Clay should be moved around more so he can be more disruptive.

That's quite possible. I'm sure there's a reason why he doesn't get moved around very much, but I certainly don't know what that is.

From what I've gathered through the interwebs this morning is most of our issues seem to be from a lack of communication in our secondary. If that's truly the case then the only thing that will fix it is experience. We need to remember, Nick Collins is out, which is a big deal. And Burnett is essentially a rookie, and a temporarily handicapped one at that. There's still time for this team to improve.

 

[shield4life]

I think defense will tone up for next week. I don't think we're playing good but I don't think we're as bad as our stats show. We've got enough talent on defense to fix the issues, most of the big plays yesterday we're miscommunications between the safeties & DB's.

Gates is a monster no LB would be able to cover him, just like anyone else that's trying to cover Finley. Vincent Jackson is another game breaker and he showed yesterday why he is so good. All tho, if there was less miscommunications, I doubt he would of had a great game like yesterday. He would had a good game but not a great game!

 

[13 Times Champs]

Yes I agree...But some people look at how the D was last year and expect it to be the same this year..

They forget about the injuries, and loss of Jenkins...

Collins out is a HUGE loss, and we cant replace Jenkins, so in my view those two players are the real issue with the defense..Jenkins provided the pass rush in the middle that allowed BJ to get pressure as well and for Hawk to slide in...Collins was able to direct the players in the back and that helped...

It is all connected..

No pass rush up front, so q/b and wr have better success..Missing our best player in the secondary those wr will have a easier time to get open

But it must be Capers cuz he sucks?

I like your post. Let me add a few things I've been seeing. Has the defense forgot how to tackle? We're missing a lot of tackles and giving up additional yards as a result. Then there have been breakdowns in the secondary. Some of this is due to the loss of Collins but not all of it. I don't expect a veteran defense to be blowing coverages like they have.

Yes we miss Jenkins but I think the problems are more fundamental and the loss of him alone shouldn't be why the defense has played so poorly. Right now I don't think Neal will make a difference if they don't correct the basics.

 

[Forget Favre]

I'm only going to say it once and I am only going to post it here:

To point out weaknesses, concerns, mistakes, problems, etc. IS NOT to "hate" or to be a "hater."

To ignore these things is to be a hater. To pretend they do not exist is to be a hater, because if you really care about people (or in this case a TEAM or an organization) you want them to be their very best, and for them to be their best you must positively reinforce what they are doing right and point out and correct what they are doing wrong.
Are the Packers an awesome team this year? Absolutely! Are they 8-0? duh. Do they have problems and weaknesses? Definitely. Are some of the biggest problems and weaknesses on defense? Undoubtedly. Do these need to be fixed? Clearly.

Well, it all depends on how it's worded.

For someone to claim that everything is pathetic and to call those of us who think everything is fine idiots, seems pretty hateful to me.

Yes, I agree that the Packers D does need improving but I am unwilling to see them as being negative as tons of other comments on here.
I appreciate what they did. The did come through, just like they have done in every other game, to be sure of the win.
Honestly, there are a few on here who act like this is the worst D ever in the whole damn history of the NFL.
They are not. The Pack is 8-0. It's all good.
Now, does that make me a hater? I guess it does by your definition.

 

[Kitten]

Well, it all depends on how it's worded.

For someone to claim that everything is pathetic and to call those of us who think everything is fine idiots, seems pretty hateful to me.

Yes, I agree that the Packers D does need improving but I am unwilling to see them as being negative as tons of other comments on here.
I appreciate what they did. The did come through, just like they have done in every other game, to be sure of the win.
Now, does that make me a hater? I guess it does by your definition.

Honestly, there are a few on here who act like this is the worst D ever in the whole damn history of the NFL.

This issue has been resolved. Continuing to bring it up will not help matters.

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/my-apologies.31584/#post-401150

 

[Forget Favre]

You guys could probably care less what I, a Charger fan, thinks about this game, but here goes. Sure, we basically gift wrapped that game for the Packers by spotting them 2 picks and a 14 point lead early. The Bolts were able to get back into this game late and make things interesting. Rivers is a very good QB that is having an awful year and no one seems to be able to put a finger on just why. The Bolts are a good team capable of putting up a lot of points on anyone, but have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot.

Your QB, Rogers, is really efficient. There are no wasted moves or decisions that anyone could call bad ones. He, in my opinion was the reason for Green Bay's success. The coverage by San Diego was fairly good. The sacks on Rogers were coverage sacks, and only because he could not escape the pocket. The Packer O-line did a great job in protecting Rogers AND controlling the rush in a way that opened up room for Rogers to escape. The problem the Bolts have is that they cannot be consistent in their pass rush. The only thing they could do was try to use the rush in a manner that didn't allow Rogers to escape containment. We could not stop everyone, the Packers have far too many play-makers on offense to do that.

Granted, your defense gave up quite a few yards. Between the 20's EVERY team is giving up ridiculous yards. Your defense toughened up in the red zone and kept things in check. Vincent Jackson is an excellent receiver and is difficult to cover. Rivers is good at finding Jackson on deep routes, but he needs time in the pocket to do it. Bottom line, in my opinion anyway, was you had two very good teams playing a shoot-out style of game. The Packers had a better "gunslinger" calling the shots than we did, that day. I saw this as the only real difference.

Okay, I'm done. You may now fire at will. LOL

I was hoping you'd come back after the game.
You didn't disappoint.
Good post and insights.

 

[Forget Favre]

This issue has been resolved. Continuing to bring it up will not help matters.

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/my-apologies.31584/#post-401150

I guess I wrote too soon.

Win or lose, these games bring out a lot of passion in some of us.

 

[Raptorman]

Packers defense is just fine. I hope they don't change a thing.

(BTW, in the last two games, the Packers defense has given up 351 yards in the 4th quarter. No problems. Leave it the way it is.)

 

[Incubes12]

The Packers had a better "gunslinger" calling the shots than we did, that day.

You phrased it that way on purpose, didn't you?

I don't think there was any "giving away" of the game by either team. I think the Chargers fought very hard through 2 interceptions and played like a top 5 team and we made up for our follies on defense by playing superior offense. Obviously this is a very broad synopsis, but I think that's what this game came down to.

 

[Croak]

Well, apparently the party line is the problem lies in defensive communication. Coach M said it in his presser today and Peprah was asked about it on TV and came right out and said they need to work on communication. They had too many break downs. Was it Collins job to be the communicator?

 

[PFanCan]

I would like to see some new defensive schemes over the next two games. Or maybe try some new faces out there on defense.

Is there a good reason that So'oto hasn't been given a chance yet? I understand that his ST skills are not that good and that perhaps he isn't the quickest study, but would be nice to mix it up at this point. I get the feeling that Capers is holding him in reserve for a late season spark (ala H. Green, Starks, etc.).

Or maybe Woodson needs to stay at safety for a whole game-- get settled in and start to QB the defense like Collins used to. I imagine that Woodson would be more capable at handling this top role than Peprah currently is. Peprah has played well from a physical point of view, but if he is unable to organize/stabilize the defense, then he's not doing the full job. Of course, this means that Shields gets the CB start and Bush is nickel back. IMO, Bush is no longer the liability at CB than he once was. He holds his own and certainly can be a disruptive force on the blitz-- maybe not as great as Woodson was, but good enough. It would be worth giving it a try.

 

[lambeaulambo]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results. The lack of pass rush is a problem, but there are others. Charles Woodson seems to be losing a step, and Tramon Williams has been pedestrian. If there was ever a time to move Woodson to safety, I think now is the time. Bring Shields in at CB, with Williams staying put. Charlie Peprah had a good game from a turnover standpoint, but is continuing to get beat or is out of position. It is all predicated on the D line getting push, though.

 

[ivo610]

Posted this same concern earlier in the season and was told not to worry about it since we were winning.

 

[longtimefan]

OMG seriously?

Another defense thread?

 

[ivo610]

OMG seriously?

Another defense thread?

its this years running back thread

 

[13 Times Champs]

I would like to see some new defensive schemes over the next two games.

So does Woodson apparently. http://packersnews.greenbaypressgaz...odson-says?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|PKR-News

 

[Kitten]

Posted this same concern earlier in the season and was told not to worry about it since we were winning.

I was probably one of the people who told you that and at the time, I believed it. Now, I don't think this is an argument of us being 8-0 and winning games. A team can have a perfect record and still have flaws. A perfect record doesn't mean the team is perfect, it just means they are better or can beat any team they have played. A Superb0wl team can have flaws, sometimes even major ones and still win the Superbowl based on the fact that they are still better than the other team or the other team has more problems than they do.