OFF-SEASON TALK (Rumors, Draft, Trades, Free Agents ect.)

[SpartaChris]

What would you guy`s think about Cliff Avrill ?

He'd be a great get, but I wouldn't get my hopes up, or get too pissy when he doesn't come to us. He's looking to get paid top dollar, and isn't even willing to give the Jaguars a hometown discount. Frankly, I'd rather use the money he's going to ask for to make sure we can keep our core players for years to come. We'll find another stud pass rusher. A health Neal, Green and Wilson with an actual off-season plus someone in the draft will give us quite a bit to work with.

 

[SpartaChris]

Houston isn't going to let him go very easy when their defense was a powerhouse this season.

Houston might be willing to let him walk, thanks to the emergence of JJ Watt and Brooks Reed.

Williams would be another good get, but he's going to want to be paid top dollar. I'd rather allocate that money toward retaining our core talent and then finding someone in the draft. Plus a healthy Neal combined with Howard Green and CJ Wilson having a full off-season combined with whomever we draft could mean some pretty good things for our defensive line.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

That is a good point, and it makes me wonder who wears it in Baltimore and San Fran.
San Fran's 2 inside linebackers Novorro Bowman and Patrick Willis don't seem to slow down for anything, and they don't miss tackles, and they force turnovers.

Still amazed that in this whole season, realcalicheese, Justin Harrell, and Jamal Reynolds each forced the same amount of turnovers this season as Hawk did.

Yeah but did they rip off a guys shoe and throw it??

 

[PackersFanfromCali80]

Neal is not going to get it done, everybody. The Packers need a couple of impact players on defense and god bless them, they aren't going to get them in the draft. TT has to shake things up a bit and go out on that limb and take a look at a couple of free agents.

 

[jaybadger82]

I've posted a link to an article in which Capers talks about the breakdowns in the secondary twice. In it he talks about Williams getting beat repeatedly by the same route. Why would Capers say that if it weren't true? (It makes him and his assistant coaches look bad.)

As I posted above, pass rush is need number one; even so Williams didn't match his play from last year - and that's not just my opinion, the guy who knows more about it than either of us says so. IMO Shields didn't play as well as last season either. Peprah probably was about the same but lack of pass rush and loss of Collins exposed him.

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying there weren't problems in coverage. I'm saying that the secondary was being asked to play a whole lot of zone this season due to the lack of a pass rush. That doesn't play to the strength of the personnel we've assembled in the secondary. Don't know how to say it more clearly than that.

Capers can point out all the breakdowns he wants. Doesn't change the fact that he didn't have his CBs doing what they do best in coverage, bump and run. The shift to zone coverage was the result of inadequate pressure on opposing passers.

I'd love to see us look at a safety prospect in the middle rounds of the draft, but I expect our need for offensive linemen to be more pressing than our need for corners. Maybe we try to find a gem late. Who knows. But you were watching our secondary, especially the corners, play outside their comfort zone most of the season...

 

[AmishMafia]

TT should splash some $$$ on Mario Williams or Cliff Avrill

Personally, if I was the GM of the Packers, I would trade AJ Hawk to Houston for Mario Williams, then I would trade a 7th rounder for Avril. I would also trade Flynn to SF for Patrick Willis. TT is such a bastard, you know he won't do this and it ****** me off. Oh, and I would also have a magic purple unicorn fly over the crowd on game day and poop out strawberry gumdrops to the fans.

 

[bozz_2006]

Personally, if I was the GM of the Packers, I would trade AJ Hawk to Houston for Mario Williams, then I would trade a 7th rounder for Avril. I would also trade Flynn to SF for Patrick Willis. TT is such a bastard, you know he won't do this and it ****** me off. Oh, and I would also have a magic purple unicorn fly over the crowd on game day and poop out strawberry gumdrops to the fans.

These trades wouldn't even be accepted on Madden, dude!

 

[TJV]

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying there weren't problems in coverage.

The post I was disagreeing with said, "Every problem the Packers had on Defence stems from lack of Pass Rush." I was pointing out problems in coverage without regard to the lack of pass rush. McCarthy said poor tackling was a huge issue with the defense so that’s something else that can be added to the "perfect storm" of problems on D this year. Poor pass rush was the number one problem but if they fix that and don’t improve coverage and their tackling, the D may disappoint again next year. And even last year, while they did play a lot more bump coverage, they also played a combination of zone and man. No NFL DC plays the same style throughout a game, let alone a season. I'm hoping the 2010 Tramon Williams reappears and Shields makes the progress we expected last season. The biggest factor for the secondary will happen in March: That's when Collins gets the word from the doctors on his neck. No need to tell Packers fans how huge it would be if he can play again. I'm not expecting it but keeping my fingers crossed. At least they should know before the draft.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

The post I was disagreeing with said, "Every problem the Packers had on Defence stems from lack of Pass Rush." I was pointing out problems in coverage without regard to the lack of pass rush. McCarthy said poor tackling was a huge issue with the defense so that’s something else that can be added to the "perfect storm" of problems on D this year. Poor pass rush was the number one problem but if they fix that and don’t improve coverage and their tackling, the D may disappoint again next year. And even last year, while they did play a lot more bump coverage, they also played a combination of zone and man. No NFL DC plays the same style throughout a game, let alone a season. I'm hoping the 2010 Tramon Williams reappears and Shields makes the progress we expected last season. The biggest factor for the secondary will happen in March: That's when Collins gets the word from the doctors on his neck. No need to tell Packers fans how huge it would be if he can play again. I'm not expecting it but keeping my fingers crossed. At least they should know before the draft.

The tackling was horrendous this season. I've never seen so many shoulder tackles attempted at the professional level.

I will say one thing, a good pass rush covers up a weak secondary. I agree with you that Collins is the key to the secondary for years to come. Collins is the key cog to the secondary and Charlie Peprah can't hold his helment on the sidelines. But, the fact remains that any quarterback with seven seconds can pick apart a defense. There is no reason guys like Kyle Orton and Sam Bradford should pass for 300+ yards. The Packers need pass rushers. Watching CM3 get doubled while Raji, Pickett and Wilson/Howard/Wynn/Walden get absolutely no push was embarassing.

 

[Southpaw]

Something everyone forgets about Hawk is he wears the helmet with the headphones in it. He is the playcaller. A lot of plays he is just getting his head back around when the ball is snaped. That has got to slow you down a step.

Been saying this for a while. Hawk is not cutting it at MLB. He's not the most aware player and as a MLB he's a horrid tackler.

I love SF's LB corps. They are one of the best I've seen in a while. Fast, intelligent, aware and sure tacklers.

I'd love a guy like Willis playing for us. But he's a freak of nature that only comes around once in a while. He's going to take over Ray Lewis as the best MLB in the league and eventually may go down as one of the best to ever play the game.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Houston might be willing to let him walk, thanks to the emergence of JJ Watt and Brooks Reed.

I'd settle for Robert Mathis as a DE over Wynn, Wilson and Howard. Williams and Avril are pipe dreams. Mathis might be the right guy at the right price.

 

[AmishMafia]

These trades wouldn't even be accepted on Madden, dude!

But your okay with the magic purple unicorn? lol

 

[bozz_2006]

I think I stopped reading by that point... Sorry lol!

 

[bozz_2006]

And no, I am most definitely NOT ok with the unicorn!

 

[jaybadger82]

The tackling was horrendous this season. I've never seen so many shoulder tackles attempted at the professional level.

I will say one thing, a good pass rush covers up a weak secondary. I agree with you that Collins is the key to the secondary for years to come. Collins is the key cog to the secondary and Charlie Peprah can't hold his helment on the sidelines. But, the fact remains that any quarterback with seven seconds can pick apart a defense. There is no reason guys like Kyle Orton and Sam Bradford should pass for 300+ yards. The Packers need pass rushers. Watching CM3 get doubled while Raji, Pickett and Wilson/Howard/Wynn/Walden get absolutely no push was embarassing.

Thanks Jennings.

I standby the original statement that the problems with the defense stem from the lack of a pass rush. It's the source of the problems in the secondary.

I think TJV's analysis of Williams and Shields performance this year ignores the fact that we literally ceased dialing up the bump and run coverage that those two flourished with in 2010. Instead, we asked the secondary to get away from what they do best (and complain about their tackling after they've been in coverage for 3-5 seconds on numerous consecutive downs). Our corners couldn't get physical with WRs at the line of scrimmage because we weren't getting the necessary pass rush. And we're back to the original statement.

Improving the rush permits the corners to go back to doing what they do best- disrupting routes. It seems myopic to focus on the shortcomings in the secondary this season divorced from the observation that they've had to make difficult adjustments stemming from the lack of rushers.

 

[TJV]

… we asked the secondary to get away from what they do best (and complain about their tackling after they've been in coverage for 3-5 seconds on numerous consecutive downs).

IMO this is a bad excuse for poor tackling. And I don’t think it makes sense to pretend the CBs played bump coverage constantly in 2010.

It seems myopic to focus on the shortcomings in the secondary this season divorced from the observation that they've had to make difficult adjustments stemming from the lack of rushers.

It would be myopic to focus on the shortcomings in the secondary. That’s why I posted twice the lack of a pass rush is the biggest problem the team faces. And I’ll remind you again it was Capers who talked about the shortcomings in the secondary, particularly Williams. But I'll bet he knows about the problems rushing the passer, too.

 

[Wills29]

But I don't want to be merged

Sweet, that's me, bottom right with the Woodson jersey. "Look Mom, I'm on TV!!"

 

[Bagadeez04]

I dont think the texans have the $$ to keep him, we need a pass rusher bad not so bad that we need to blow the whole *** on someone. But i doubt TT does it as they dont like to spend $$ of FA. Everone almost had a cow when the signed Reggie White back in the day. Take a chance again on draft and hope for the best but it does not take a rocket scientist to figure it out we have no pass rush at all. You have to get to the QB!! or you will be sittin at home watching the Superbowl!

Wouldn't you think Mario Williams would get an enormous contract in the neighborhood of what Julius Peppers got from Chicago? You're taling about a $100 mil there...not going to happen.

 

[AmishMafia]

Wouldn't you think Mario Williams would get an enormous contract in the neighborhood of what Julius Peppers got from Chicago? You're taling about a $100 mil there...not going to happen.

I like Williams better. Although the injury risk is a big concern, he seems more consistent than Peppers. Chance of him becoming a Packer is pretty slim. The cap casualties would be a bigger minus than he would be a plus.

 

[The Drew]

What are the chances we land someone like Courtney Upshaw in the draft?

 

[ExpatPacker]

What are the chances we land someone like Courtney Upshaw in the draft?

Almost certain that we'd have to trade up to get Upshaw. That could happen if a Flynn sign and trade to Miami comes through.

Upshaw would be my #1 choice in the draft for DE/OLB. He'd be a great addition.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Sweet, that's me, bottom right with the Woodson jersey. "Look Mom, I'm on TV!!"

That's right, I was going to have everyone sing happy birthday to you but forgot. You skated out of that one.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Hi Priced free agents are risky. Just ask the "Dream Team", all that money. Maybe next year, or the year after or when the dog killer retires.

 

[AmishMafia]

Hi Priced free agents are risky. Just ask the "Dream Team", all that money. Maybe next year, or the year after or when the dog killer retires.

The goal of Washington and Eagles ownership is not to necessarily win, but to turn a profit. And if signing a big name FA puts butts in the seats, an owner will do it. Its difficult for TT to compete when the balance sheet of your competition is set up differently.

But that's okay. I am fine with no FAs. A year from now we will be waiting for the Superbowl, Packers vrs Steelers thinking, "Dang, can you imagine the nightmare we avoided by not signing Mario? Of course, I knew xxxxx was going to emerge all along."

What are the chances we land someone like Courtney Upshaw in the draft?

See post #56. A little more likely than the Hawk for Mario but not as likely as a purple flying unicorn.

I'm thinking he will go around #10ish. So it would cost us Flynn, #28, + ???. I guess its possible, but for me its too risky. For every "sure thing" Von Miller, there is a "sure thing" Hawk or a Curry.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

The goal of Washington and Eagles ownership is not to necessarily win, but to turn a profit. And if signing a big name FA puts butts in the seats, an owner will do it. Its difficult for TT to compete when the balance sheet of your competition is set up differently.

But that's okay. I am fine with no FAs. A year from now we will be waiting for the Superbowl, Packers vrs Steelers thinking, "Dang, can you imagine the nightmare we avoided by not signing Mario? Of course, I knew xxxxx was going to emerge all along."

Hey, we are a draft and develope team. If TT and MM see somthing I don't, I think they are a little more qualified than me to make the decisions. TT has to think long term, like how much is he going to have to pay A-Rod and still leave cap room for CM down the road. things like that. 40 guys under 25 on this team and we will get younger after this offseason. The NFL is a youth movement, you stay young or you die. If TT and MM really feel that Neal and So'oto aren't going to get the job done next year, I think he'll dip into FA but he's not going for Mario, he's all about value. Events transpire a little differently the last couple of weeks, you and I are talking about Brady V A-Rod my friend.