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NSA surveillance

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by PackFanNChiTown, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. PackFanNChiTown
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    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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  2. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I got nothing to hide, they can waste their time snooping.
    But they wouldn't.... they want to find terrorists, and I want them to use all measures possible to do that.

    Our safety, our survival, as a country > than our sensitivities.
    Again, nothing to hide, no worries.
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  3. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    ..and people don't quite comprehend the dangers we face here in America, mostly because it's been almost 12 years since we were hit by Al Qaeda.

    In 1993 or 94, they hit the Trade Center with a bomb in the basement parking area... it almost came down, people were killed.
    They plotted for 7 or 8 years, then the plan was way bigger, and we had 9/11.

    I know we've stopped some incidents already, who knows how big.

    But I am sure they are planning an even larger, much larger, attack next time and it could happen any time, any where.

    Those radicals in Boston for the Marathon were just punks. What if AQ has a hundred or more Islamic radicals ready to go, and they go much bigger, in 100 or 200 cities at the same time?
    What if there are 200 Oklahoma Cities at the same time, across the USA?

    They dream big, they HATE America enough to kill any of us, any of our children, etc.

    What if they got one, or two, or more dirty bombs?

    These animals are surely planning on a grande scale.
    And they don't quit, unless they're caught or killed.

    Getting them BEFORE my family or your family is blown up?
    That's well worth using whatever wiretaps, e-mail snooping, etc. they can.

    They have declared war on us already.
    Don't be fooled by the lull in the action......
  4. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Little torn by it...

    One hand I dont like they spy...But as Frank states, if it stops more blood shed then it is ok
  5. Darth Garfunkel
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    Darth Garfunkel Cheesehead

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    We're being spied on daily by advertisers. Corporations track all of our credit card purchases. We share every detail of our lives on Facebook. Big brother's already been here for years.
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  6. Darth Garfunkel
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    Darth Garfunkel Cheesehead

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    Just to make sure though I'm going to start cc'ing the NSA on all of my emails. I'm sure they will appreciate the help!
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  7. PackFanNChiTown
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    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    Dear NSA,

    My laptop hard drive crashed and I lost all my files, please restore from NSA servers when convenient.
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  8. NorthWestCheeseHead
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    NorthWestCheeseHead Just talk about FACTS, baby

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    Pure and simple it is an invasion of privacy. Sure Facebook is "public" for instance. But when I choose to post only so my friends or myself is able to view it I expect just that. Which is not the case. I have nothing to hide, but on that same token they have no reason to look. The evidence supporting this spying thwarting attacks is pretty weak, mostly I'm speaking from the standpoint of how necessary it was to use this sort of invasive spying on US citizens and the direct help that it gave to thwarting those attempts is pretty dubious and not anything that couldn't have been acquired through other means just as easily.

    Sorry, getting them before they get anyone else is not worth losing my privacy. Bad **** happens man, you can't stop everything. I'd rather not live in a "1984" world.
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  9. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    well the NSA must have a hell of a staff in place to be able to track 260+ million Americans and their online transactions. I know they ping on key words, but damn, that is a lot of monitoring.
  10. realcaliforniacheese
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    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    Just another side effect of the over reaction after 9/11. Everyone was all in favor of the so called "Patriot Act", now, once again knee jerk reactions come back to haunt us. NWCH, we are already living part of 1984, We have our modern form of Newspeak. But this is nothing new. When you give too much power to any organization without proper oversight there will always be abuses. 1960's FBI has files on citizens it deems as Threat's. 1970's you have Nixon's enemies list, 80's Iran Contra...... My signature says it all.
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  11. NorthWestCheeseHead
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    NorthWestCheeseHead Just talk about FACTS, baby

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    I agree, but that doesn't mean we should allow ourselves to go further down the rabbit hole out of fear. (or for any reason for that matter)
  12. realcaliforniacheese
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    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    Absolutely.
  13. Poppa San
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    Poppa San Pray daily and take the plunge for Eli Staff Member Moderator

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    Orwell picked a date about 50 years too early.
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  14. Shawnsta3
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    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    As far as Snowden goes, he's a hero right? Guy gives up his way of life, home, family, friends, job to move to a different country just so we the people know the government has been secretly spying on us.
  15. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Our founders would be ashamed of what our govt has become
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  16. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    I`m speaking as a Brit here..........When this bill was first announced about monitoring the internet, as one of those foreigners the U.S. who would or could be spied on, I was justifiably upset and indignant however........1. I have nothing to hide, so why should I be upset ?
    Now I understand it is spilling over into monitoring U.S. citizens too ??
    I take your point Ivo, and how your founders would be ashamed, but to be honest mate I believe if they would have had the capabilities, they would have used it. Now before that reads the wrong way, I fully understand and agree in principle IF and only if it isn`t abused, this side and your side of the pond. If it protects American and British interests I`m okay with it.
  17. Poppa San
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    Poppa San Pray daily and take the plunge for Eli Staff Member Moderator

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    But it is a very slippery slope. What point does it stop? Random checkpoints for sobriety and documentation? Helps capture suspects and reduces vehicle accidents. Is that OK? Why should I have to prove my innocence. More asinine example was last time I voted, I had to state in a loud clear voice my name and address even though the lady checking the book had been to my house several times and I had coached her daughters. In rural Wisconsin, most everyone that votes knows several of the polling station workers but we really have to do this? Just talk to someone on a no-fly list because their name is similar to someone that should be on the list.
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  18. NorthWestCheeseHead
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    NorthWestCheeseHead Just talk about FACTS, baby

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    I don't agree with it at all. I don't think that the gov should be spying on US citizens' or foreigners' internet activity. Having nothing to hide is besides the point when they have no plausible cause to need to be looking.
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  19. NorthWestCheeseHead
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    NorthWestCheeseHead Just talk about FACTS, baby

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    I don't know. I'm really torn about him. I very much appreciate being vindicated in my belief that the government was doing some shady stuff and starting to view/ treat the American public as enemies. But he also took sensitive files and is now pandering them to counties who we are directly competing against. That is traitorous actions, even if is initial intentions were good, I don;t like what he is now doing.
  20. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    I find this interesting because my initial reaction when this was brought to Britains attention was Extreme anger and indignation towards the American government. How dare they spy on non Americans and believe it is justified ? But here in Britain we have an increasing problem with extremist Asian groups. IF by monitoring this can be nipped in the bud and lives saved, it has merit.
  21. NorthWestCheeseHead
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    NorthWestCheeseHead Just talk about FACTS, baby

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    I have no idea about the issues that Britain is going through. I know you guys were one of the most heavily surveillance countries in the world, not sure if that stat is still true now, at least your government does it overtly for the most part.

    In my experience with intelligence gathering, which is limited and I was not specifically trained to do so by the Army, yet I served as the Intel NCO for my platoon while we were in Iraq and Afghanistan along with my other duties as FO and RTO. Basically I would review intel files about significant actions and dossiers for relevant data to where my platoon was operation, people that we were tracking, etc compiled the info and briefed my PL and PSG every few days to keep them up to speed so that they could plan missions/ patrols accordingly. From what I experienced a lot of the "meta data" that is collected generally gives a lot more false positives than it did lead to captures of people who had actually done something wrong. As well there are other methods of gathering intel that you can obtain equally informative if not more accurate intel through. Granted you don't have access to the "meta data" that data mining online activities provide, but those are generally without much context and don't provide a great deal of tangible workable info.

    Sorry, for the jargon laced post; let me know if you didn't understand/ google doesn't illuminate terms and I'll define them for you.
  22. Raptorman
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    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    At what point is to much information being collected? How much freedom are you willing to give up to maintain your freedom? It's all fine as long it's the other guy being spied on. What happens when they start looking at you for some off the cuff comment you made? Can't happen right? Wrong. It can and does.
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  23. Poppa San
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    Poppa San Pray daily and take the plunge for Eli Staff Member Moderator

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    As a new game, everyone with a signature file in their email should, in a tiny white text or other background matching color, mention various WMD or other attention getting method in the negative. Mention one or two political figures or celebrities. Such as The following is false: I have access to a WMD of choice and I'd like to meet <insert cover girl du' jour>
    The game is to be outlandish enough but legally defensible to see how long it takes you to notice you are being followed or observed or any other spy-stuff action. This could overwhelm the system or at least throw out enough false positives to render it useless. One could also, esp. with caller ID, answer the phone with similar statements. Set it up in advance with your buds and really have a blast.
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  24. 12theTruth
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    Doesn't make it right though does it. If we are either oblivious or apathetic of course marketers and the government will have a field day with our individual preferences. Too many people like freebies. Sign up for a free ipad. Share your phone numbers, likeness, thoughts, etc all for freebies. Too lazy to read the fine print. Sign our liberties away while we're at it.
  25. 12theTruth
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    12theTruth Guest

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    OK. Seriously? I don't have anything to HIDE either. That doesn't mean that technologies exist that may better balance our individual liberties/privacy versus lazily collecting millions of terrabytes of our phone call data, internet communications, etc. Can't believe how many use the argument that they have nothing to hide so spy on me in whatever way you want Uncle Sam. Sad!
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2013

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