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No Pass Rusher In Round 1

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by Wood Chipper, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. Wood Chipper
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    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    Let's be real for a second and breathe slowly. Yes the Packers pass rush was bad last year. Yes it was a significant part of why our defense got picked apart. But what if when we draft in round 1 we do not get a pass rusher? I would rather Ted Thompson grab the best available player than make a reach for a guy who is available in rounds 2 or 3. If we do not trade up to get an early first round pick then why not address a need we will have in a year or two? Like a cornerback or continuing to upgrade our offensive line (honestly it can never be too good).

    My point is it will not be the end of the world if we do grab a OLB/DE in the first round. Not every good player comes in round 1. Just something to think about and nibble on.
  2. ExpatPacker
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    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    There will be pass rushers available at #28, the question is, will they be the best ones?

    Other than WR, TE (assuming we sign Finley), OC (assuming we sign Wells), QB, and RB (unless for some insane reason Trent Richardson is still on the board), then yes I agree draft the BPA.
  3. Wood Chipper
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    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    Hell if it's our turn and their is a better cb on the board than an olb
    then I'm all for grabbing the cb.
  4. bubblercheez37
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    bubblercheez37 Cheesehead

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    I think we really need to go OLB or DE. I understand you point of view about BPA, but I'm sticking with my 75/25 % theory (75 percent of the reason we had no pass defense was because we couldn't generate a rush, 25 percent because of communications issues relating to the loss of N. Collins). I'm almost positive Perry, Curry, or Mercilus will be there at 28. We need to take one of those three as long as Thompson doesn't see something bad about these guys that the normal fan isn't aware of. Now, if we hit free agency and pick up either M. Williams or Cambell, then I think we go back to BPA.
  5. Southpaw
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    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    I can see them not taking a pass rusher in the first round, but I think them making that decision would depend on whether Collins comes back or not.

    If not I think they may take a CB or Safety. I'm thinking Mark Barron if that is the case

    If Collins does play, then they definitely will take an OLB or Defensive End.
  6. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    The one thing we don’t have to worry about IMO is Thompson reaching for a position of need. If there are three players who would upgrade the Packers at ROLB, DE or at DB and there’s a significantly higher rated player not at a position of need available, I hope and think the accommodation Thompson will make is attempting to trade down so he picks up another pick while still able to get one of the players at positions of greater need. My guess is that’s what happened in the 2008 draft. They liked Jordy Nelson but probably thought he’d still be on the board past pick #30. So they traded #30 for picks #36 and #113, second and fourth rounders. And of course picked Jordy at #36.

    Even Thompson’s mentor Ron Wolf made mistakes reaching for positions of need. Although it’s difficult to know for sure since none of us know what the Packers’ board looked like when picks were made, but I’d be amazed if the top rated player in each of the first three rounds of the 1999 draft were CBs. Yet that’s what the Packers took and only the third rounder worked out. It looks to me like Thompson learned that lesson.
  7. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    You mean within reason, right? Let's say the best player available is a receiver, quarterback, tight end or offensive tackle. Would you rather TT take one of those?

    Best player available works within reason. The Packers should take the best player available on defense in each round. Packers need linebackers, defensive linemen and corners. Grab which ever one is the best.

    You can't end up like the Colts and make picks like Anthony Gonzalez, Donald Brown and Joseph Addai year after year while neglecting the defense.
  8. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    There is an excellent change Barron doesn't get past Dallas at #14.
  9. Southpaw
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    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    He recently sustained a sports hernia. He's expected to drop because of that. There is a chance he could still be around
  10. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    CB = CHASE MINNIFIELD.
    I remember his dad, a great CB on the Cleveland Browns, named Frank Minnifield.
    I see many mocks with him in that 30-40 range, and I would not be surprised or disappointed, to see Teddy go the Bloodline route again here.
    I think Minnifield is a safe pick, and might be the best NFL CB when all is said and done, from this class... better than even Claiborne who has all the LSU hype.

    By the way, the 1st OLB taken us rarely the best one in the end.
    Same with the pass-rushing DE's.

    2009 DRAFT
    #4- Aaron Curry (we could have traded for him this year, a 4th rounder, and gotten him)
    #11- Aaron Maybin (was released prior to last season already.. nobody had Matthews rated higher except Teddy)
    #13- Brian Orakpo (DE-OLB)
    #15- Brian Cushing
    #16- Larry English
    #18- Robert Ayers
    #26- Clay Matthews

    2010 DRAFT
    #8- Rolando McLain
    #13- Brandon Graham
    #15- Jason Pierre-Paul

    The point of all of this is, just because the kid from Alabama and South Carolina (ooooh, the SEC), or Perry from USC are going to go first, doesn't mean that Vinny Curry from Marshall, later to us perhaps, isn't going to be the actual best NFL pass-rusher.

    I trust in Ted, but the only thing is I wish he would take gambles on guys like Aaron Curry last year for a dime to the dollar, and right now the same thing with Jerry Hughes. I'm tired of trying to go with the street guys like the Waldens, Zombos, etc.
    Clay Matthews deserves a Robin to his Batman.
    This team is in a rare Golden Age right now, and I hate to waste any years of Rodgers here with a horses*** defense like this.
  11. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    These three players couldn't have less in common. McLain is an inside linebacker... Graham projected as a 3-4 OLB... JPP is your traditional 4-3 pass rushing defensive end
  12. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Graham and JPP were both drafted to get to the QB primarily.
    Some thought JPP would be a massive bust based on numerous things, one of which was is lack of experience.

    In 2009, many wanted the Packers to draft different OLBers, not Matthews. Turns out Teddy knew best as Clay was the best of them all.
  13. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Did you ever think CM3 was in the right place at the right time? Did you ever think TT saw value at the end of the first round?

    I'm as positive as I can be that TT didn't think "CM3 is the best OLB in the draft. I'll just ignore all the other pass rushers and pick him".
  14. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I find it highly improbable that TT, AND ONLY TT, knew that CM3 would be the best pass rusher in the draft. I think you're giving him a little too much credit.
  15. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I heard that TT rated Clay highest among all natural 34 OLBers in that draft (his aggressive, rare trade-up pretty much indicates as much).
    Orakpo was viewed as a hand-down DE and Cushing more of an ILB.
    Ted wasn't fooled on the safety-sized Maybin, or the overhyped Larry English.
  16. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Heard from where?

    The CM3 pick was this simple:
    - 4-3 team switching to 3-4 with no nose tackle or outside linebackers
    - Packers had an extra third round pick due to the Favre trade
    - Packers use the #9 pick to get Raji
    - TT moves back into the first round to get the best available pass rushing OLB
    - The 3-4 defense now has a NT and OLB
  17. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Exactly... and people believe TT only drafts via the BPA method.
    He actually had Michael Crabtree, mistakingly, rated highest and almost took him instead of Raji.
    But common sense prevailed and he took the highly-rated NT who should have gone top 5.
  18. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    I'm still curious where you heard that TT had CM3 rated as the top OLB.
  19. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    One of Bob McGinn's sources IIRC.
    His source (also Rick Gosselin here in Dallas) also had the Packers liking and planning on taking OLB Jerry Hughes the next year (2010), but Bulaga fell way further than anyone anticipated and so the Packers had to take Bryan.

    Ted Thompson would never reveal these types of things of course, to the public!
  20. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    There were 2 quotes I heard right after the draft from TT (?) or maybe MM. They both implied that if Raji wasn't there at #9, CM3 would have been the pick there. When he dropped as far as he did, the Pack traded up. Not sure if they liked Curry more, but Clay must have been at least #2.

    I hope and trust TT to go BPA in this draft as he typically does. It will be very funny to me if that happens to be a TE or a WR. Posters will decry the move and call it the downfall of the Packers. The defense needs some pass rush boost for certain, but you just never reach for need. If you draft inferior players, you obviously end up with an inferior team. Fortunately for us, there appears to be a few OLBs that may be in the BPA range when we pick. When you draft at the end of the round, typically there are a few players of equal value and you're pick can be at a position of more need. Personally, I think a stud DE with little pass rush would be as valuable as a pass rushing OLB.
  21. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    The pick would be worse than bad. The Packers kept 5 tight ends on the roster and are 5 deep at receiver. BPA is the right decision, but within reason. NOBODY can justify picking a TE or WR in the first round. There is absolutely no justification for the pick.
  22. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    THIS.

    Packers got torched by Moss, overreacted, drafted 3 DBs with the first 3 picks... and guess what... still got torched by Moss.

    TT will draft the BPA in most situations. Unless its a WR I think its possible he could go anywhere. QB would somewhat surprise me in the first round though.
  23. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    If you see an All Pro player at any position in the draft you take it when you can. WR would be a stretch though.
  24. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    There was no justification
    There was no 'justification' for picking Jordy when we did either. Yet he turned out to be a critical in our SB win.

    The justification is always if the player is going to be a player or not. I would much rather they draft rob gronkowski than Aaron Maybin. Too many fans look at the draft with the sole idea of improving next season. You need to consider improving for the next few years. When you rely on filling gaps with rookies you have already lost. It's a snowball effect. If you do that you have to do it for another position next year because you didn't stock the shelves last year because you were reaching for another position. You put a few seaaons of that and pretty quickly you have a team of marginal talent.
  25. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Why was there "no justification" for the Jordy Nelson pick? At the time, Donald Driver was already in his 10th season and the #4 receiver was Ruvell Martin.

    I understand what you are saying, but a receiver pick makes no sense. Jennings, Nelson, Jones and Cobb are all young, productive players. It typically takes a rookie until his third full season to be productive (outside of player like Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Randy Moss). After the next two season, Jennings, Nelson, Jones and Cobb will all still be young an productive. Not to mention, Finley is only 24.

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